Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge

[Chairman Yang]

The TARDIS being dug up was quite a good image, even if I was worrying about continuity as it happened.

I'd have loved some sinister horror story set in a village near a big blue lighthouse and the keeper is this mad old crone who has an unmarked grave in her garden. Turns out she's subconsciously protecting the village from sea harpies or a sentient storm or something, even though she's trying to hide she can't help being The Doctor.

Or like... whatever, just do it in this story.

[H-O-W-L]

plenty of people who hated moffat for doing this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibL6Y0VN4Ys are just fine with what chibnall's doing right

Personally I fucking hated that just because it was fucking Clara doing it again. I feel really, really bad for Jenna Coleman. She seems lovely, but she plays the most miserably infuriating and overpresent character in the entirety of the series. The Impossible Girl bollocks tanks those seasons for me. Bill was a breath of fresh air because she wasn't a know-it-all who could resolve anything by talking it down, and she didn't have any rumble-bumble time-jump powers that enable her to pre-emptively fix everything by entering the Doctor's timeline.

Man. Bill Potts really is underrated, isn't she?

[H-O-W-L]

Imagine the 'one cyberman' is the cyberman head that Smith was cuddling for many years in his last episode....That would bring me strongly back on board.

Fucking hell mate, if they brought back Handles or did a Kroton style scenario where we had a cyberman with emotions I'd be right back on fucking board. Shit, imagine a Cyberman companion. That would make me watch the whole season as opposed to the episodes that I can tolerate most.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

I smiled at hearing Captain Jack's voice. I'm increasingly fond of Barrowman's big performance - you can tell he genuinely loves Doctor Who. Shame he was ultimately only there to deliver a tagline. I guess they had to film him indoors for only five minutes to avoid spoiler leakage. After hearing his voice I half-expected the Face of Boe to trundle out, rather than Barrowman himself.

Barrowman may not have much range as an actor, but he's great as Captain Jack. The proper Doctor Who iteration of Captain Jack, that is, not the boring emo version from Torchwood. As you say, he clearly loves Doctor Who, he loves playing that character, and his enthusiasm is contagious.

Also, hats off to him for selling the line about Jack being wowed by Ryan's sassiness. The man is a pro.

Found the Judoon captain very likeable. He gasped a lot, quite sweetly. Very fluid mouth animatronics, too. Judoon captain for next companion.

He was rather endearing. A slightly dim and disappointed child hiding behind a bluff exterior. You can pretty much guarantee that Vinay Patel, the director, the voice actor and the animatronics team were responsible for investing him with some personality. Chibnall lacks the wit to do such a wild and extraordinary thing.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Man. Bill Potts really is underrated, isn't she?

She is. Clara should've fucked off during Capaldi's first series, allowing Bill to become his main companion for the rest of that era.

Hindsight is a WT.

[Thomas]

He was rather endearing. A slightly dim and disappointed child hiding behind a bluff exterior. You can pretty much guarantee that Vinay Patel, the director, the voice actor and the animatronics team were responsible for investing him with some personality. Chibnall lacks the wit to do such a wild and extraordinary thing.

Good comedy line, too, when the Doctor says '... near a lagoon', only for Yaz to chime in with 'that's more of a canal'.

I sort of agree with Kelvin, that an Alternate Doctor storyline opens up dramatic possibilities, but also with Replies. Maybe the former idea is best kept to the novels and audio and whatnot. I've always instinctively felt that you can have your parallel worlds and characters, but that there should only be one 'real' Doctor in the story. It's always been that Gallifrey and the Time Lords are conspicuously absent from parallel worlds - but I feel that's for the best. As if there's something special about the Time Lords, and they occupy only one universe.

Infinite worlds with their own Doctors blows it wide open. Rather fan-servicey. It'd be very Marvel. Why follow this Doctor when there are a quadrillion others? It's conservative of me, but I like the limitation of just following our central Doctor.

My doubts might be destroyed, though. Might be good. As noted by someone on Reddit or Twitter or something, this 'Ruth' Doctor could be a direct product of those light-lads interacting with the Doctor in Spyfall, rather than proof that parallel Doctors have always existed.

[pigamus]

1. That felt more like Doctor Who than any episode since Capaldi left

2. Fuck off did Chris Chibnall have anything meaningful to do with it (thank God)

3. They still don't understand how ineffectual they're making Jodie Whittaker look in her own show

[Kelvin]

I've always instinctively felt that you can have your parallel worlds and characters, but that there should only be one 'real' Doctor in the story. It's always been that Gallifrey and the Time Lords are conspicuously absent from parallel worlds - but I feel that's for the best. As if there's something special about the Time Lords, and they occupy only one universe.

Infinite worlds with their own Doctors blows it wide open. Rather fan-servicey. It'd be very Marvel. Why follow this Doctor when there are a quadrillion others? It's conservative of me, but I like the limitation of just following our central Doctor.

I think it depends on whether "our" Doctor still feels special at the end of it. She has to be "better" than the alternative in some way. To have a certain spark that the other version/s lack. To be fundamentally more suited to being The Doctor than the alternatives, even if they match her intelligence. Her specific history has to have shaped her in some way that makes her sharper, kinder, more principled, more ruthless, or whatever it is the writer wants to tell us about the character.   

[Alberon]

I'm still thinking that Doctor Ruth and her Gallifrey come from, rather than alternate-dimensions, a rewritten timeline. Something supposedly awful about the Timeless Child, whatever that is. And something that had to happen before 'our' Doctor and Gallifrey could be brought into existance.

That's what I'd do (along with punting Ryan into the nearest sun at the first opportunity). What would you do and what do you think Chinballs is going to do?

[pigamus]

And how bland was Ruth Doctor really? Plot Function Doctor. Not very impressive.

[Small Man Big Horse]

2. Fuck off did Chris Chibnall have anything meaningful to do with it (thank God)

I know it's the done thing to give Chibnall a big kicking whenever we can, and I've enjoyed doing so as much as anyone, but I think he deserves some credit for what took place, there's no way he wouldn't have been involved in the plotting of the story as Jack and the other Doctor are clearly going to be back for the season finale, if not beforehand.

[Thomas]

I'm still thinking that Doctor Ruth and her Gallifrey come from, rather than alternate-dimensions, a rewritten timeline. Something supposedly awful about the Timeless Child, whatever that is. And something that had to happen before 'our' Doctor and Gallifrey could be brought into existance.

That's what I'd do (along with punting Ryan into the nearest sun at the first opportunity). What would you do and what do you think Chinballs is going to do?

It also has to be something that shocks and outrages even the Master, a character who murders and tortures for fun.

Perhaps, in the course of achieving regeneration and time travel, the early Time Lords (the 'founding fathers') wrote and re-wrote hundreds of versions of reality before getting it right, perhaps abandoning versions of themselves and each other to hellish would-be-worlds. That might get the Master's back up, if he thinks there are versions of himself that have been subjected to horror and neglect.

Or maybe all Time Lords, including the Master, are forced at some point to babysit the Timeless Child, which is a horrible baby Gallifreyan that keeps shitting itself.

[mjwilson]

I expect a fan edit adding Ruth to the pre-Hartnell Doctors from Morbius to be on YouTube by the morning.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

And how bland was Ruth Doctor really? Plot Function Doctor. Not very impressive.

She was like something from a Comic Relief sketch. Not the actor's fault, she was fine, but the generic costume reminded me of The Curse of Fatal Death.

Her gaudy shirt and imperious demeanour also gave off some Colin Baker vibes. Of all the vibes to exhume, I ask you.

Ach, I enjoyed that episode, as I've said. Unless he pulls something amazing out of the bag, which he won't, it will be the Chibnall episode most of us will look back on with some warmth. It wasn't boring. It wasn't bland. Or maybe it will be seen as the episode in which Chibnall went completely mad and irreparably fucked up Doctor Who continuity forever.

I JUST DON'T KNOW.

[Alberon]

I expect a fan edit adding Ruth to the pre-Hartnell Doctors from Morbius to be on YouTube by the morning.

Canon is a bit different on Doctor Who compared with other shows. It not only has to be broadcast on the show, the fan groupmind has to approve it. So the Eighth Doctor isn't half human on his mother's side and the Morbius Doctors aren't unseen incarnations of the Doctor.

But now they can be if time was later rewritten! And the evidence was hidden in plain sight all the time in The Brain of Morbius.

Clever Chibnall!

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

I know it's the done thing to give Chibnall a big kicking whenever we can, and I've enjoyed doing so as much as anyone, but I think he deserves some credit for what took place, there's no way he wouldn't have been involved in the plotting of the story as Jack and the other Doctor are clearly going to be back for the season finale, if not beforehand.

Yep, criticise his terrible writing by all means, but he does deserve credit for devising an episode of Doctor Who full of bonkers twists and surprises. Just look at Twitter for example, people are gabbing enthusiastically about the show. I know that's far from the be all and end all, but it's quite nice.

It's almost certainly a cheap, empty magic trick, but cheap, empty magic tricks are enjoyable in the moment.

[pigamus]

How do you know he devised it? It had his name on, but it was entertaining from start to finish.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Oh, and I liked how the 'feisty old woman' was murdered within the first ten minutes. I feared another "MAH BENNI" character stinking up the episode.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

How do you know he devised it? It had his name on, but it was entertaining from start to finish.

He devised the story arc. That's his job. This episode was all about pushing that arc forwards. Vinay Patel may well have written most of it, but Jack, the mysterious new Doctor, the Gallifrey and Master stuff, that's all part of whatever plan Chibnall has in store. It's presumably why he felt comfortable taking a co-writer credit.

[Thomas]

Of this ep I will say that I'm actually looking forward to the finale now, rather than simply waiting patiently for it to happen. I'm looking forward partly out of intrigue, so that's promising, but also out of hope (that there are no major canon fuck-ups).

But looking forward is looking forward is looking forward, so that's okay. It's done its job.

Captain Judoon and Captain Jack for Series 13 companions.

I don't get why this almost Big-Finishian cumshot of continuity is happening in this series when the first was so deliberately accessible

I agree that this is weird, and possibly misjudged (probably a deliberate effort to keep fans onboard), but it is a novelty that major revelations and plot points are forthcoming in seemingly random episodes. I never thought that a little-hyped (except for that easily missed trailer) mid-series ep would feature so much continuity and arc stuff.

There was Some Drama, including human Ruth's very brief protestations against becoming her real self (quick, shallow homage to Human Nature), but most of the story was just laying down question marks until the last ten minutes. Which lay down several bigger question marks.

[JesusAndYourBush]

I liked that.  For me it was the best episode of of the season so far.

[Johnny Yesno]

Doctor Ruth was flying a suspiciously old school TARDIS - white roundels and the First Doctor's console.

I liked it. Much better than Whittaker's Tardis.

Best moment, though, and the only time I actually laughed, was near the start, when The Doctor chastised Yaz for asking too many questions. I reckon that must have been Chibnall's subconscious screaming out.   

Heh, I was going to post this myself.

I smiled at hearing Captain Jack's voice.

I groaned. Can't stand the twat.

Found the Judoon captain very likeable. He gasped a lot

She ('We can sort this woman to woman').


I was watching with subtitles, which had everyone calling Ruth's pursuer 'Get' and informed me that the Judoonese Talwak Freighter was moving at 80 million dicks an hour (that's a tallywhacker freighter, surely).

[Cloud]

Have you ever, ever felt like this, when strange things happen are you going round the twist?

Genuinely WTF

Enjoyed it though

Computing Forever and co must be running themselves in knots over the black female doctor thing.  Is it a bad thing because they just HAD to COMPLETELY RUIN the Doctor's history just for the sake of shoving a black female Doctor down the throats of persecuted white men?  Or is it a good thing that they've checked off 'black female' on their list of Woke Doctors, presumably as either another War Doctor or another timeline, and got it 'out of the way' so the next Doctor doesn't have to be black or female?  Can it somehow be both at the same time?

Nice to see Jack back.  And the rhyming there reminds me to chuckle at the Judoon platoon near the moon or whatever.  They've done a good job with de-ageing Barrowman.

[Replies From View]

I know it's the done thing to give Chibnall a big kicking whenever we can, and I've enjoyed doing so as much as anyone, but I think he deserves some credit for what took place, there's no way he wouldn't have been involved in the plotting of the story as Jack and the other Doctor are clearly going to be back for the season finale, if not beforehand.

He can have all the appropriate credit for everyone talking like broken lightbulbs if you must.

[BlodwynPig]

The 1 minute i saw yesterday - was that Barrowman - fucking hell - made it look more like an episode of Doctors rather than Dr Who.

[Replies From View]

The 1 minute i saw yesterday - was that Barrowman - fucking hell - made it look more like an episode of Doctors rather than Dr Who.

I saw the whole thing and was delighted to see Simon Cowell's new face getting more exposure.

[Replies From View]

Shame they wasted all the facial animatronics on the Judoon, though.  A couple of expressions from Captain Jack Harkness would have gone down a treat.

[Old Gold Tooth]

Shame they wasted all the facial animatronics on the Judoon, though.  A couple of expressions from Captain Jack Harkness would have gone down a treat.

Haha, it definitely had a waxy sheen but I thought he was great. Bounding with energy and even made you half-believe Ryan was sassy and not a shop-window dummy. His expressions when finding out the Doctor was now a woman were just the right level of ham and cheese.

[A Hat Like That]

Actually, there are a couple of changes Chibnall has wrought to the programme since Moffat that I thoroughly approve of. One is managing to keep certain things under wraps in advance of broadcast. If he ever comes up with a twist worthy of surprising people with, that'll pay dividends.

This post has aged well.

[A Hat Like That]

I'd have loved some sinister horror story set in a village near a big blue lighthouse and the keeper is this mad old crone who has an unmarked grave in her garden. Turns out she's subconsciously protecting the village from sea harpies or a sentient storm or something, even though she's trying to hide she can't help being The Doctor.

yeah, I'd watch that episode. The image of the buried TARDIS was great. The arrogance of Ruth Doctor doing the

Best moment, though, and the only time I actually laughed, was near the start, when The Doctor chastised Yaz for asking too many questions.

Yes.

that got a laugh.

She ('We can sort this woman to woman').

As did that, I assume it meant the Judoon was a lass.

It was RTD-lite, sure, but there was a run of 10 minutes where it was chaotically brilliant. Still rooms for improvement - RTD or Moffat would have got the Jack part integrated into the main plot, there were some tone deaf bits of dialogue even if "platoon of Judoon near a lagoon", "its, more a canal" was wonderful. I think that was one of Whitaker's best episodes and certainly one of Chibnall's.

Just hope he's got satisfying resolutions for all of the questions.