Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge

[Deanjam]

Yeah, weirdly regressive. Then again, I don't think RTD had a single non-interracial relationship until he introduced Martha's parents in series three, so maybe they're just balancing the books a bit.

Rose's parents were both white. They must have fucked at some point.

[Deanjam]

Hell of a way to start a new page.

[Replies From View]

Rose's parents were both white. They must have fucked at some point.

Yeah but Pete was dead if you don't count his younger self from the past or his parallel self from where the Cybusmen came from.


People from the past are like a different race.  They do things differently. 

Same goes for parallel versions.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Er, no?

I know, I know, I was just looking out for some dodgy politics from "Amazon aren't that bad!" Kerblam! man. Not fair, I was wrong.

[Chapwithwings]

I know, I know, I was just looking out for some dodgy politics from "Amazon aren't that bad!" Kerblam! man. Not fair, I was wrong.

It's weird - when you see McTighe speaking about Who he's talks a great game, has strong ideas on what works (see him on the season 26 blu-rays, for instance), great advocacy and knowledge of the show, and his writing elsewhere has been characterful and strong.  Yet his two episodes have been bland and, in Kerblam!'s case, as you say as you say dodgy.  Can't help but wondering if that's the Chibbers effect in full flow on him.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

But Chinbells, surely, can't have a negative effect on every writer he hires? He's not a person of vision a la RTD and Moffat, he's not tinkering with scripts in the lonely dead of night. Well maybe he is, but does that mean he's shaving off every ounce of nuance, subtext and wit that might've originally existed?

McTighe's latest story was solid on a structural level, but that's all it was. A functional construction without any depth. It zipped along from A to B. The end.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

There's nothing wrong with a Doctor Who episode that just tells a straightforward story within 50 minutes. That's all anyone wants. That's what it's for. But it has to be entertaining, memorable, funny, odd, original, surprising. It has to be well-written and quite unlike anything else you'll see on TV.*

Otherwise it's just Death In Paradise with a bigger budget.

* Which is why I enjoyed Fugitive of the Judoon.

[Chairman Yang]

Well you've answered your own question there: this is Doctor Who when you just have the Television Machine set to 'Television'. Chibnall isn't actively harmful, he's just constructed a version of the shows that's very easy to make.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Well you've answered your own question there: this is Doctor Who when you just have the Television Machine set to 'Television'. Chibnall isn't actively harmful, he's just constructed a version of the shows that's very easy to make.

I was being rhetorical, just typing out loud.

[Cloud]

There's nothing wrong with a Doctor Who episode that just tells a straightforward story within 50 minutes. That's all anyone wants. That's what it's for. But it has to be entertaining, memorable, funny, odd, original, surprising. It has to be well-written and quite unlike anything else you'll see on TV.*

Otherwise it's just Death In Paradise with a bigger budget.

Thankfully without Kris Marshall who was a bookie favourite for the 13th Doctor at the time.

Don't know why but there's just something about him I can't stand... to be fair I thought the same of Catherine Tate and she was great as a companion (and would've made a great Doctor IMO)

[dissolute ocelot]

Thankfully without Kris Marshall who was a bookie favourite for the 13th Doctor at the time.

Don't know why but there's just something about him I can't stand... to be fair I thought the same of Catherine Tate and she was great as a companion (and would've made a great Doctor IMO)

Kris Marshall in Love Actually is the single worst thing in the history of cinema, truly the most cogent argument for lesbian separatism ever advanced, and the BT ads and My Family were 2nd and 3rd worst things ever on TV, so he really needed to star in Chibnall Who to round out a top four. He's just kind of tall and scruffy, like someone ripped out John Krasinski's brain through his eye socket.

[Malcy]

Chibnall has said that there are tons of Cybermen in the finale and Julie Graham is guest starring as an 'all action hero'.

https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2020-02-05/doctor-who-series-12-finale-cybermen/

[Replies From View]

There's nothing wrong with a Doctor Who episode that just tells a straightforward story within 50 minutes. That's all anyone wants. That's what it's for. But it has to be entertaining, memorable, funny, odd, original, surprising.

And, crucially, such a rudimentary and skeletal episode would have to be the worst one of the series.  Not the best.

[Replies From View]

Chibnall has said that there are tons of Cybermen in the finale and Julie Graham is guest starring as an 'all action hero'.

https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2020-02-05/doctor-who-series-12-finale-cybermen/

Spoiler alert

And based on Chibnall's comments it seems that this prophecy will come to pass in an episode later this series, with a single Cyberman's actions bringing the entire species back to life.

[close]

I'll go out on a limb and say that Chibnall doesn't understand where Moffat left the Cybermen in 2016.

[Thomas]

Chibnall has said that there are tons of Cybermen in the finale and Julie Graham is guest starring as an 'all action hero'.

https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2020-02-05/doctor-who-series-12-finale-cybermen/

I've a meagre optimism that a new iteration of the Cybermen might be novel and interesting in some way. I thought the Dalek stuff of Resolution was pretty impressively fresh - just a shame half the ep was spent on the dully soap operatic 'Ryan's dad' subplot. Say what you will about hopeless, absentee fathers; thank god they're legally obliged to carry a microwave at all times.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

And, crucially, such a rudimentary and skeletal episode would have to be the worst one of the series.  Not the best.

Well yes. I was imagining Praxeus in more skillful hands. It contained the bare bones of a decent mid-season RTD or Moffat-era episode.

Aren't we way past the point of having to clarify this?

[Mister Six]

Honestly baffled by the very negative reception it's getting here. Have I just become so attuned to Chibnall's mediocrity that something actively bad seems like a good yarn?

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Honestly baffled by the very negative reception it's getting here. Have I just become so attuned to Chibnall's mediocrity that something actively bad seems like a good yarn?

I don't think it was actively bad in the sense that most Chibnall episodes are, just that it was a robotically streamlined version of one of his episodes with most of the embarrassing bits removed.

It wasn't shit, it was just there.

[Norton Canes]

I was imagining Praxeus in more skillful hands

Robert Holmes: While on the Madagascan beach the Doctor encounters a pair of intergalactic conmen who are trying to sell contaminated bird carcasses to alien bidders
Bob Baker and Dave Martin: The Doctor and Graham discover a cure for Praxeus after being miniaturised and injected into Adam's body
David Whitaker: The alien virus is contained within a force field created by some candles and a mirror
Eric Saward (oh come on he was better than Chris Chibnall): Yaz and Ryan encounter a really shit alien mercenary who spends the entire episode banging on about how deadly he is before being killed by a falling cormorant

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Pip & Jane Baker... actually, they were worse than Chibnall. The smug little teenage git said so himself.

[A Hat Like That]

Robert Holmes: While on the Madagascan beach the Doctor encounters a pair of intergalactic conmen who are trying to sell contaminated bird carcasses to alien bidders
Bob Baker and Dave Martin: The Doctor and Graham discover a cure for Praxeus after being miniaturised and injected into Adam's body
David Whitaker: The alien virus is contained within a force field created by some candles and a mirror
Eric Saward : Yaz and Ryan encounter a really shit alien mercenary who spends the entire episode banging on about how deadly he is before being killed by a falling cormorant

I would watch the Saward one.

[JesusAndYourBush]

I'll go out on a limb and say that Chibnall doesn't understand where Moffat left the Cybermen in 2016.

On the bright side, if he pays little attention to Moffat he might not notice the stupid "Delete" catchphrase and we might not have to hear it again.

[Replies From View]

On the bright side, if he pays little attention to Moffat he might not notice the stupid "Delete" catchphrase and we might not have to hear it again.

That was from RTD's tenure, to be fair.  Did "Delete" appear in his Cyberwoman story for Torchwood?



Imagine if they decide to keep the Wrong Trousers stomping sound effect.  That would be good wouldn't it.

[mjwilson]

I'll go out on a limb and say that Chibnall doesn't understand where Moffat left the Cybermen in 2016.

I don't know that that really matters, it's not like there's some great consistent Cybermen continuity. Any particular episode just chooses what position it wants them to be in, right?

[Kelvin]

Honestly baffled by the very negative reception it's getting here. Have I just become so attuned to Chibnall's mediocrity that something actively bad seems like a good yarn?

As you said in your own thoughts on the episode, the dialogue was incredibly flat. An okay story and two characters you give a shit about is not enough for a passable episode, really. I'm sick of them spelling out every single thing they're doing or thinking, and the Doctor's constantly rising pitch. The dialogue isn't even naff and schlocky, it's lifeless.

[Replies From View]

I don't know that that really matters, it's not like there's some great consistent Cybermen continuity. Any particular episode just chooses what position it wants them to be in, right?

Maybe not, but it comes hot on the heels of Chibnall presenting a Master story that he seemingly wrote 15 years ago.  There was lots of potential offered by Moffat there, and Chibnall didn't so much chuck it in the bin as remain dimwittedly oblivious to it in his tone-deaf continuation of the Master's storyline.

As with everything else so far, nothing has been set up properly.  The lone Dalek in series 1 was set up in advance whenever the Doctor spoke of being the last of his own species. 

Quite willing to bet that this series 12 story will have the Doctor saying something like "my god it's a Cyberman - but you were surely wiped out!" without any competent build up to this being the case.

[Mister Six]

Deleting edit bug.

[canted_angle_again]

This bit of Chibnall as a child gave me a chuckle.


https://youtu.be/oHwBEyQI3rI?t=173

[Phoenix Lazarus]

This bit of Chibnall as a child gave me a chuckle.


https://youtu.be/oHwBEyQI3rI?t=173

Separated at birth: Chinballs and the snooker player, Steve Davis!

[Malcy]

Finale episode titles.

Spoiler alert

Ascension Of The Cybermen
The Timeless Children

[close]