Author Topic: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge  (Read 123812 times)

Kelvin

  • The best bits of a pantomime horse
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • With skin the colour of a freshly peeled apple
Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2340 on: February 09, 2020, 10:41:54 PM »
It didn't actually make sense for Ryan to suggest his friend sought help for depression, because once he learned about the mystery man being real, that was already an explanation for why his friend was acting strangely, bolting his doors, etc.

Also, was it ever made clear what anniversary Yaz and her sister were marking? I assumed the dreams would reveal something, but the stuff about Yaz's own depression didn't seem related to an anniversary.   

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2341 on: February 09, 2020, 10:44:16 PM »
Yaz running away from home, right?

Kelvin

  • The best bits of a pantomime horse
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • With skin the colour of a freshly peeled apple
Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2342 on: February 09, 2020, 10:46:45 PM »
Yaz running away from home, right?

I think I misremembered the scene at the dinner table early on. I thought it was the sister who asked Yaz if they still needed to mark the occasion, but it must have been the other way around. That would make more sense with your explanation.

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2343 on: February 10, 2020, 12:41:03 AM »
Hearty LOL at the finger in the ear. Admittedly I was thinking of a similar looking appendage.

I don't mind the Doctor not having anything helpful to say about cancer. I get the impression the attempted point was that it's super hard to address, especially as a being who can just regenerate, it must be super weird that humans are so fragile. She could have tried an "I'm sorry, I hope it never does come back" or something though - or perhaps guarantee some kind of TARDIS cure but then she becomes the travelling cancer cure so probably not a good road to go down story wise.

Ryan's mate is making my gaydar beep like crazy, and it's always  possible that Ryan is bisexual. 

The toymaker is that guy from 60s Who, who looks like Michael Burke isn't he. Cool to get a mention. (It might not be Burke I'm thinking of but he reminded me of someone)

Betting the baddies are tied to the whole eternal child stuff in some way

I like that the issue of them ageing while popping back to the same timeline was brought up, not that companions last long enough for that. Thank goodness.

Kelvin

  • The best bits of a pantomime horse
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • With skin the colour of a freshly peeled apple
Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2344 on: February 10, 2020, 12:58:16 AM »
I don't mind the Doctor not having anything helpful to say about cancer.

That's not the issue. The issue is that, in an episode making the point that people should reach out about their depression / anxiety / problems, the third example of a person reaching out was met with the Doctor simply avoiding the issue and expecting him to get on with it. If you're going to end most episodes with a heavy-handed moral of the week, don't then undercut that point moments later.

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2345 on: February 10, 2020, 01:24:03 AM »
Cast react to next weeks episode.


mbedd

  • 0.8秒と衝撃。
    • homepage
Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2346 on: February 10, 2020, 01:35:25 AM »
I will review that episode with the same level of effort that the actors invested in it. Utter turds.

Other episodes of Chinballs run have bored me to tears - this is the first one I've turned off without any interest in seeing how it concluded.

I think I spent more time making a recreation cat nun Lego figure than them hacks spent on the dialogue. Fuck this show. It really is utter turds.


Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2347 on: February 10, 2020, 01:52:59 AM »
Rewrite:
GRAHAM says his monologue. The DOCTOR just looks at him for a moment, then steps forward and gently gives him a hug.
DOCTOR
I don't know what I can say to make it alright, or to make you feel better, but if you ever need me I promise I'll be there to help you.
(pause)
GRAHAM
Thanks, Doc. That's what I needed to hear.
CUT TO LONG SHOT OF THEM HUGGING

There, that's ready enough to fix. But only the first one's free, Chibbers.

Yes. Fucking hell, what was that?

This episode was a rollercoaster. I was pre-composing a post whilst I was halfway through, ready to come on here to discuss how it's getting better, isn't it? The companions being separated gives them something to do. Creepy godlike monsters, quite compelling. The trick reversal wasn't brilliantly handled, but nice they gave it a go. The visuals of the inky dream transitions and the animated storytelling were great...

But then all that swept away with a deafening ongoing scream of "What the fuck is happening?" I'm not one to prescribe traditional three act structures, but they pissed away the main threat with the most cursory wrap up possible with ten minutes left on the clock. Followed by... What the fuck?
  • Ryan leaves his brother/friend/boyfriend with some kind of loneliness AA, which wouldn't have felt odd except for the fact we hadn't seen him actually listen to him at all so it seemed like he straight up palmed him off.
  • Yaz has a mad flashback sequence to retcon some personality into her via a fucking boring chat with a policewoman. Fair play, they did a good job on making Yaz seem younger, but the two of them seemed to have aged over a decade in those three years.
  • And then Graham brings up worries about cancer for the first time since, what, his first episode? Only for the Doctor to be the most alarmingly callous she's been since she told the same person to "get over it" about his wife having recently died. This "kindness is magic" Doctor doesn't give a shit about Graham.
They could have threaded these character issues through the series and given them some much needed personality. But no, instead let's have them as total voids and then artlessly vomit backstory as a coda that takes up a fifth of the running time in episode 7. That'll do.

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2348 on: February 10, 2020, 02:00:27 AM »
I think I misremembered the scene at the dinner table early on. I thought it was the sister who asked Yaz if they still needed to mark the occasion, but it must have been the other way around. That would make more sense with your explanation.

I thought one or both of their parents must have died in the Arachnids episode and I'd forgotten it. Because otherwise, where were they? One of Yaz's character crumbs is that her family drive her nuts in some non-specific way. The flat was eerily quiet by their absence, I assumed it was intentional.

Johnny Yesno

  • Member
  • **
  • Perfume of a critic's burning flesh
    • Lines Horizontal
Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2349 on: February 10, 2020, 05:22:28 AM »
I see yer tattooed baldy also did one of the voices in Remnants. Significant?

He was also in Brass Eye: https://youtu.be/xczpQC7WO_o?t=21m12s

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2350 on: February 10, 2020, 08:50:56 AM »
Cast react to next weeks episode.



Even in a still, Bradley Walsh brings more nuance to his character than any of the others.

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2351 on: February 10, 2020, 09:01:49 AM »
There were good bits - decent villains, that animation was wonderful, thought the dialogue zipped a bit at the start (did like Graham's comment about the A-Z of the universe)

There were horrendous clunkers - Graham's monologue for a start, ending slightly rushed.

I think, just, that the good bits outweighed the clunkers but someone should have spotted that miles off.

Artie Fufkin

  • Let Me In, Sparks
Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2352 on: February 10, 2020, 09:39:11 AM »

Genuinely thought Ryan was going to announce he was gay.

Yep. Me too.

Thomas

  • please describe an encounter with a squirrel
Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2353 on: February 10, 2020, 10:53:40 AM »
Decent villains, well-performed and creepy, nicely tricking the Doctor into freeing one of them. The animation outlining their origin was novel, inspired I'd guess by a similar sequence in one of the Harry Potter films. I'm never keen on Doctor Who veering towards fantasy, with smokey effects and souls and all that (remember 'purple, the colour of death'?), but I liked these Hellraisery guys. They were done away with as swiftly as the baddies in The Power of Three, though. Quick zap of the sonic at a thing. A shame, because they were promisingly horrible.

Big bit of backstory for Yaz. Quite sweet, even if it felt as though it were a completely different show. The villains were dispatched in a rush for the sake of ten minutes of straight-drama. Nobody has melded the soap opera and the sci-fi quite as well as RTD. 

As everyone has said, the Doctor was weirdly callous in her Graham cancer-chat - it might have made some sense if her character had been built up that way, a lá series 8 Capaldi. To be fair, she did announce that she was 'still socially awkward', so I suppose that must be one of her traits now. Like when she said that 'points are my thing' in Fugitive of the Judoon. Incidentally, though, I did think that brief cancer-chat was Jodie's most Doctory performance.

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2354 on: February 10, 2020, 11:14:11 AM »
I thought one or both of their parents must have died in the Arachnids episode and I'd forgotten it. Because otherwise, where were they? One of Yaz's character crumbs is that her family drive her nuts in some non-specific way. The flat was eerily quiet by their absence, I assumed it was intentional.

wasn't it something about her arriving late (due to doctor's error) and they'd already gone out. think her sister said something along those lines

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2355 on: February 10, 2020, 11:21:27 AM »
I wonder if it's possible to imagine any previous incarnations of the Doctor dealing with Grahams cancer chat in a worse way. Probably not apart from Colin Baker who would try to throttle the cancer out of you.

Davison and Troughton would be the best, obviously.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2020, 11:47:35 AM by Wentworth Smith »

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2356 on: February 10, 2020, 11:23:30 AM »
wasn't it something about her arriving late (due to doctor's error) and they'd already gone out. think her sister said something along those lines

Oh, okay. Missed that. Still, weird decision. Especially as Yaz's nightmare was about her running away from home. It's like the cracks have swallowed them.

Thomas

  • please describe an encounter with a squirrel
Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2357 on: February 10, 2020, 11:27:18 AM »
Anyway - by their sad glances, it looks like the companions might be off. They've had enough of this universe lark. To be fair to Graham, gallivanting in the radioactive depths of interstellar space can't be good for his cells.

As for Yaz and Ryan - just pretend you've moved to a different country and visit your parents twice a year.

Spoon of Ploff

  • visitors are welcome to Sheerness
Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2358 on: February 10, 2020, 11:40:34 AM »
I see yer tattooed baldy also did one of the voices in Remnants. Significant?

That's Ian Gelder who was in Children of Earth, but more famously he was the sceptic (Shawnt'Clear Gardsley)  in the out of body experience report for The Day Today:



"So how do you explain the experiences of viewers who say they watched quality episodes of Chibnall's  Doctor Who?"

"They didn't"

"But we've filmed it... there's an awful lot of evidence to show that is the case."

"No there isn't."

Kelvin

  • The best bits of a pantomime horse
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • With skin the colour of a freshly peeled apple
Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2359 on: February 10, 2020, 12:37:31 PM »
Probably not apart from Colin Baker who would try to throttle the cancer out of you.

Just the fact you can make that joke indicates why even Baker's Doctor is better than Thirteen. Whitaker might be a better actress (in theory), but her Doctor is anemic without equal. At least Baker still felt alien and unpredictable, even if he was deeply obnoxious a lot of the time. Whitaker's is comfortably the worst Doctor we've ever had. 

Small Man Big Horse

  • Member
  • **
  • Writers wanted for comedy website, pls click below
Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2360 on: February 10, 2020, 05:44:50 PM »
Just the fact you can make that joke indicates why even Baker's Doctor is better than Thirteen. Whitaker might be a better actress (in theory), but her Doctor is anemic without equal. At least Baker still felt alien and unpredictable, even if he was deeply obnoxious a lot of the time. Whitaker's is comfortably the worst Doctor we've ever had.

Can't say I agree with that, Colin's Doctor made me deeply despise the show and almost stop watching it, whereas Jody's is just very nothing-y.

I thought it was such a weird episode, there were some great ideas but other parts felt misjudged or misguided, and for me baldy villain came across as being rather CBBC and a bit ridiculous rather than scary. Plus the dialogue was really weak, especially when the Doctor was on her lonesome and delivering exposition in a really obvious and rubbish way.

TwinPeaks

  • didn't choose a very distinctive username did i
Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2361 on: February 10, 2020, 06:55:40 PM »
I wonder if it's possible to imagine any previous incarnations of the Doctor dealing with Grahams cancer chat in a worse way.

Not even series 8 Capaldi at his most callous would have left the conversation at 'I'm too socially awkward but hey look how self deprecatingly honest i'm being!". He would have said something, he would have implied he was at least fucking listening.
People on Twitter keep going on about how this is a great humanising moment for the Doctor. God help any of their friends if they dare confiding in them. Yes, it's important to remember no-one can have all the answers, yes it's hard to know what to say, just listening to your friend is important, but ffs the Doctor basically just shrugged at him and walked off as if he'd just pissed on her shoes.

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2362 on: February 10, 2020, 07:05:24 PM »
I thought it was such a weird episode, there were some great ideas but other parts felt misjudged or misguided, and for me baldy villain came across as being rather CBBC and a bit ridiculous rather than scary. Plus the dialogue was really weak, especially when the Doctor was on her lonesome and delivering exposition in a really obvious and rubbish way.

I thought Baldy was great, they just rushed into the "here's my plan in detail" stage a bit quickly, and then threw him away.

The Doctor expositing to herself in those two scenes, however, played like a pisstake, a critique both of the way she's been written and the way the companions have been underwritten. It was quite surprising to see it in there, but maybe it reads more like affectionate ribbing if you have a higher opinion of the writing.

Norton Canes

  • In today's room, with today's view
Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2363 on: February 10, 2020, 07:08:06 PM »
Should really watch this tonight. Got nothing much else to do before Inside No. 9

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2364 on: February 10, 2020, 07:12:52 PM »
The Doctor has certainly been socially awkward in previous generations, but I think I'm right in saying, never self-consciously socially awkward. In fact if anything, quite the opposite. That's what rang untrue about that scene, to me. It's not that being socially awkward isn't something the Doctor would ever admit to, it's just a thought that ought never to have even occurred to her.

daf

  • some weirdo taking the piss
Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2365 on: February 10, 2020, 07:21:39 PM »
Not even series 8 Capaldi at his most callous would have left the conversation at 'I'm too socially awkward but hey look how self deprecatingly honest i'm being!". He would have said something, he would have implied he was at least fucking listening.

Forget the dream monsters*, THAT was the most horrifying thing in the show.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
* a no-lips alien knock-off doing the "breath-face" AGAIN - Yawn-o!

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2366 on: February 10, 2020, 09:09:58 PM »
It felt about two hours long. Not the worst of the series though, it was alright but yeah, the Doctor was shit. How did she flip the sonic up in to her hands?

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2367 on: February 10, 2020, 09:57:59 PM »
I thought Baldy was great, they just rushed into the "here's my plan in detail" stage a bit quickly, and then threw him away.

The Doctor expositing to herself in those two scenes, however, played like a pisstake, a critique both of the way she's been written and the way the companions have been underwritten. It was quite surprising to see it in there, but maybe it reads more like affectionate ribbing if you have a higher opinion of the writing.

I took it as knowing or, as you say, affectionate ribbing, but I think my Dr Who opinions tend to the forgiving.


Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2368 on: February 10, 2020, 10:52:16 PM »
What was that Timeless Child bit in there for? I wasn't sure if they were implying that the Eternals were Timeless Children, or just bunging it in apropos of nothing as a bit of a reminder before we get into the finale in 2 weeks.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

  • a hopeless vanity... a stupefyingly futile conceit
Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2369 on: February 10, 2020, 10:54:09 PM »
Almost certainly the latter.

Tags: