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Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge

Started by Deanjam, June 13, 2019, 04:35:22 PM

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Norton Canes

At least that was before we knew the Master was around

Alberon

And anyway, he wasn't even the Master at that point.

mjwilson

I enjoy the fact that Russell managed to put in an anagram for the Master by accident (apparently).

VelourSpirit

Remember Ranskoor av Kolos (yeah I know, neither do I, but still) having "Skaro" appear in the name twice by accident?

Skaro is such a fucking boss name. I wonder if Chibnall sees the difference between it and Ranskoor av Kolos or does he go "yeah, both great."

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on February 13, 2020, 07:53:46 PM
They're silly names, yes, but RTD, because he's not an idiot, never attempted to use them as a publicity hook. Chibnall seems to think that mentioning a bunch of stupid alien names in a press release is fiendishly tantalising.

"What could these words that I've just plucked out of my arse possibly mean?! Tune in to find out!"

I take your point, but I did used to wince at some of the names RTD came up with.

Quote from: Old Gold Tooth on February 15, 2020, 12:58:36 PM
Skaro is such a fucking boss name.

It really is.

Malcy


Mango Chimes

#2437
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olliebean

Any clues as to whether we're getting a New Year (or Christmas) special, at least?

Malcy

Quote from: olliebean on February 15, 2020, 05:09:58 PM
Any clues as to whether we're getting a New Year (or Christmas) special, at least?

One was filmed along side this series I think. We'll know by the end of this series if there is or not based on location filming that took place. If we see it in the finale then maybe not.

Camp Tramp

Quote from: TwinPeaks on February 13, 2020, 05:13:37 PM
Imagine if every sypnosis was like that.

Who are the Adherents of the Repeated Meme? Who is the Face of Boe? What is the Forest of Cheem? And who is the Moxx of Balhoon?

Why did RTD have such a great knack for alien names? Those are just so much better than anything we've had in the Chibnall era. Andrew Ellard had some good tweets about this somewhere.

Dreadful for Human names though.

Gatiss was worse though. Calling the Russian sub captain Zhukov. That is just lazy.

Camp Tramp

Quote from: Johnny Yesno on February 13, 2020, 07:29:29 PM
I dunno. They're laughable too, really.

The first one is a Leigh Francis foam mask, the second is near the Forest of Sutton, and the third one is something you inhale at a festival.

There is a forest in Cheam, or at least a park with a lot of trees.

Replies From View

Quote from: The Giggling Bean on February 10, 2020, 11:28:58 PM
They could have written something similar and uplifting about the human spirit to fight for life or something philosophical about finding strength in fragility

They couldn't have done because they aren't good enough writers.

Replies From View

Quote from: Bingo Fury on February 13, 2020, 11:28:13 PM
I like the fact she lets Graham call her Doc. I always think of it as a warm callback to Sergeant Benton, another working-class character who was allowed to address the Doctor less formally.

I know it was the 70s by then but I always thought "Cunt" was a bit too informal for a kids show.

Replies From View

Quote from: Malcy on February 15, 2020, 05:14:48 PM
One was filmed along side this series I think. We'll know by the end of this series if there is or not based on location filming that took place. If we see it in the finale then maybe not.

Yeah there was an extra episode filmed, with Daleks, which will be a special either for Christmas or for New Year's Day again.

I say "extra" episode; series 12 has been just ten standard episodes with one of them in the New Year's Day Special slot.  The "special" episode for this block is being held back an entire year to allow series 13 not to air until September 2021.

Bit by bit, they are cutting back on the amount of the show that's being produced.

Replies From View

Quote from: Mango Chimes on February 15, 2020, 05:04:24 PM
Doctor Who



















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Thanks for this!

Mango Chimes

There may be errors in that. Wikipedia doesn't include specials in its episode counts, which makes it tricky to do a quick tally.

It's interested to look at what felt like a lot of messing around during the early Moffat era. It was actually fairly consistent, with the split series keeping the show present in the quiet year before delivering the anniversary miracle, covering a drift to autumn, and then two more years reliably in place. It's only since he effectively quit for the first time in 2015 that its gone to pot.

It's weird that the execs don't want it to be consistently in the same place, and that Chibnall's presumed ability to at least churn stuff out to deadline isn't being used to facilitate that.

Replies From View

It has to be money.  I presume the BBC are only willing to fund a certain amount of Doctor Who, and that since Moffat's time they've said "here's the budget we'll give you for this three year period; use it as you see fit" and the showrunners have decided to reduce the regularity of the show and the episode count per series to make sure the budget isn't so thinly spread it starts showing on screen.

During Moffat's time the splitting of series 6 and 7 worked to disguise the fact they were only making a series every 18 or so months, and it looks like this strategy has been abandoned as nobody believed the various arguments for it ("it means we'll only ever be a few months away from new Doctor Who!" was one of them, and there was also some guff at the time that it was all to facilitate a shift of the show from summer to winter so it would be broadcast when the nights were long).  Now they are no longer hiding it, and it's much clearer we are only getting two series every three years.  (I find it interesting that when we last got two series a year apart - series 8 in late 2014 and series 9 in late 2015 - an unprecedented two years had passed since the start of series 7 - which began in late 2012).

I think Moffat was receiving an unfair amount of stick at the time around "his" inability to churn out Doctor Who sufficiently regularly.  I'd say the current situation shows that he was covering for something else that was going on, higher up.

mjwilson

Quote from: Mango Chimes on February 16, 2020, 11:28:55 AM
There may be errors in that. Wikipedia doesn't include specials in its episode counts, which makes it tricky to do a quick tally.

It's interested to look at what felt like a lot of messing around during the early Moffat era. It was actually fairly consistent, with the split series keeping the show present in the quiet year before delivering the anniversary miracle, covering a drift to autumn, and then two more years reliably in place. It's only since he effectively quit for the first time in 2015 that its gone to pot.

It's weird that the execs don't want it to be consistently in the same place, and that Chibnall's presumed ability to at least churn stuff out to deadline isn't being used to facilitate that.

I wouldn't be surprised if the execs do want it consistently in the same place. Pretty sure Chibnall was basically saying in DWM that they can't get them out much faster than this.

daf

Quote from: mjwilson on February 16, 2020, 01:31:36 PM
Pretty sure Chibnall was basically saying in DWM that they can't get them out much faster than this.

They managed to write, produce and broadcast an episode of Doctor Who every week for around 10 months of the year all through the 60's - and did it on a tiny fraction of the modern budget.

Get writing you lazy bastard!

Norton Canes

Quote from: Replies From View on February 16, 2020, 10:16:41 AM
Thanks for this!

Yeah, magnificent work. At first glance I thought you'd just pasted it in from elsewhere, then I realised if that was the case it wouldn't be formatted...

Re. the Call The Midwife comparison - I remember posting here a few years ago saying what a shame I thought it was that from 2008-2012 Merlin managed five consecutive series, all 13 episodes, all broadcast from September/October to December. There has to be a way Who can do that. I get that unlike most other drama series the locations and personnel change drastically from episode to episode but I'm sure that's a issue which could be addressed - perhaps by not making so many stories globe-trotting epics, from example. I'd rather get eight episodes a year than ten every three, not just because it makes for a higher overall count but also for the regularity. Obviously the execs need to have a will to make the above happen and it seems like the show is being moulded at a level above the showrunner right now.

Mike Upchat

Apologies if someone has already mentioned this but it does seem to me that this series was made and intended to go out in 2019 in the same slot as 2018 (the production having started early enough) then got pushed back to start of 2020 because the BBC decided they didn't want it going out on the same night 'His Dark Materials' was being shown.

As that was a co-production with HBO who presumably have their own schedules to they moved 'Doctor Who' back as they had more latitude and also by now it is established that it moves around and drops out a year now and again.

mjwilson

Here's Chibnall, writing on 21st Jan 2020:
Quote
By this stage in the transmission of the series... we're still finishing work on the last few episodes of this series of Doctor Who.... The demands of post-production... mean that each episode is delivered perilously close to the wire... When people ask why it's hard for the show to return on an annual basis, this is one of the reasons: we started pre-production on this series on 19 November 2018. We started shooting on 21 January 2019. We finished shooting on 30 October and we're still going on post-production. (And that's just the shoot and posts-production, before you take a writing period into account.

Quote from: Replies From View on February 16, 2020, 10:14:41 AMBit by bit, they are cutting back on the amount of the show that's being produced.

Maybe there isn't the same need for Doctor Who that there used to be. The magic number for successful syndication in America used to be 100 episodes because that allowed a programme to be shown daily for 20 weeks. Doctor Who is now up to about 93 HD episodes (not counting specials) so another series in 18 months will push it over the 100 episodes line.

I know nothing about how TV series are sold and distributed now. What follows is all pointless speculation. It used to be that channels brought the rights for a certain number of repeats in a set period of time. If that's still how the system works then why make more than one new series every 18 months? You can still refresh the package with new episodes, and you're still pushing towards the magic 100 episodes mark, but maybe it's more cost effective than making one new series each year.

daf

Episodes shown in 2019 :

Eastenders  = 210
Doctor Who = 1


Mango Chimes

Quote from: Norton Canes on February 16, 2020, 02:04:04 PMI get that unlike most other drama series the locations and personnel change drastically from episode to episode but I'm sure that's a issue which could be addressed - perhaps by not making so many stories globe-trotting epics, from example.

There's definitely a unique production challenge in a programme that can be anywhere and anything from episode to episode, but it seems like the workarounds aren't being used any more. Bottle episodes to save money on sets and locations, two-parters to get more episodes out of the same set-ups, Doctor-light episodes to double-bank filming. These restrictions gave us some of the best episodes in Davies run.

Kelvin

Quote from: Replies From View on February 16, 2020, 10:14:41 AM
Bit by bit, they are cutting back on the amount of the show that's being produced.

"Yeah, I know; and such small portions."

Thomas

Quote from: Mango Chimes on February 16, 2020, 03:29:06 PM
These restrictions gave us some of the best episodes in Davies run.

That's an interesting point; so many memorable eps seem to have been the smaller ones. Midnight and Blink barely went anywhere, geographically, and each lacked a lead actor. The standout location requirements were a small bus interior and an old house. The best series of Torchwood - Children of Earth - took place mainly in offices and Welsh kitchens. And seemingly brought to life in an old power station and a quarry, Utopia built up with spectacular atmosphere and tension to its reveals, still fondly recalled as some of the greatest ever. The two-part bonanza finale, meanwhile, is less beloved. The best bit is probably David Tennant and John Simm chatting on the phone. Later, the popular Amy's Choice divides its time between a village and the TARDIS set. The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang is packed full of costly things, but so much of the great stuff takes place in a nicely lit museum. Do you remember when Doctor Who took a double-decker bus to Dubai? Not really, but you remember when those statues moved between shots.

Obviously they're all expensive, especially when you chuck in CGI sparkles and pay Derek Jacobi, but those restrictions can force the writer down a rewardingly economical path.

Quote
(Moffat, on winning a BAFTA for Blink)

'That's been an ongoing astonishment to me. I thought it was good, in so far as you can ever really judge these things. I worried about the lack of action, because nobody really breaks into a trot in it - even the monsters are inanimate objects. I thought, "My God, this is just people standing in rooms being semi-urgent!"'

Of course, many of the massive eps are favourites, too, but it's clearly possible to be brilliant on a budget.

VelourSpirit

No, sorry. Chibnall has have his annual holiday to South Africa so they can film some vistas. That's what good Doctor Who is.

Norton Canes