Author Topic: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge  (Read 8400 times)

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2019, 07:47:00 PM »
Y'know, I still think Davies should have gone with McGann. He wouldn't even have to mention anything about the past. Why am I even discussing this in 2019?

It would have robbed us of the War Doctor and the amazing 50th anniversary stuff though.


kidsick5000

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2019, 08:17:18 PM »
Quote from: Myself from September 22, 2009
Thats about the most even handed thing I've read on this thread, and very welcome.
I'm truly hoping that Moffatt is Paisley to RTD's Shankly. Very different methods, not as bombastic but delivering even greater success. (It's a Liverpool thing)

My wish came true there.

Quote from: kidsick5000 The New Doctor Who Thread page 206 January 04, 2009, 06:40:49 AM
Now that the plaster has been ripped off things are beginning to soothe.

I like the choice. It not one of the usual choices. I trust Moffat. He doesnt actually look 26 but early 30s so thats fine. I still think I should try auditioning but this will do for now. Lets see what happens. Good luck to the fella.
I really hope he has a thick skin with all the Mask, Frankenstein comments.

That said...
future storyline come 2010:
"Oh yeah, they loved me on Easter Island"


Then it took a while, but the same gag was used in The Impossible Astronaut (I think it was that episode).
I have achieved nothing else since, and I didn't even achieve that.

TwinPeaks

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2019, 10:22:26 PM »
God there were some fucking mean comments about Matt Smith in there. Suppose that was everywhere though, and there was actually a bit more positivity about him in that thread than I'd expected. Poor guy must have had a terrifying year, yet he just completely owned the role right from the start. Iconic performance really.

purlieu

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #33 on: June 17, 2019, 11:45:34 PM »
Yeah but the media would still yammer on about McGann's return in the build-up to the first episode, which might put people off checking it out.

I think RTD did a near-flawless job of bringing Who back, even if it didn't feel like that initially.
Oh, I know, it was exactly the show it needed to be to bring the series back and be a success. I just... I dunno, I don't like Eccleston's Doctor at all, or Tennant's much, or more than a handful of episodes in the first three series, so I'm constantly having ideas about how I would have preferred it.

I also just want to see McGann do a full TV series, and am sad it never happened.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #34 on: June 18, 2019, 12:51:53 AM »
I also just want to see McGann do a full TV series, and am sad it never happened.

I also wish something like this could have been possible, more as a kind of sideline project rather than main Doctor Who, which would have always needed to follow the current Doctor.

As well as McGann I also wanted more of the seventh Doctor as he appeared in the TV Movie - that kind of retired professor version.

Jerzy Bondov

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #35 on: June 18, 2019, 09:33:56 AM »
I'd love to see more of McGann, but Night of the Doctor was a really pleasant surprise.

That was getting on for six years ago now! We only have four years to get someone good in charge for the 60th anniversary, otherwise we'll get another Dimensions in Time instead of Day of the Doctor.

kidsick5000

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Reveng
« Reply #36 on: June 18, 2019, 01:43:31 PM »
I'd love to see more of McGann, but Night of the Doctor was a really pleasant surprise.

I’m slightly embarrassed by how much of a rush I felt when that turned up on YouTube. I saw it cold. Utterly unexpected. I can’t even remember how I got to it - was it a Facebook link? Twitter? I just know it was midday and it befuddled me. A glimpse of Tardis, was it fan made? Bloody Hell, these fanboys have splashed out and persuaded McGann to take part. “But probably not the one you’re expecting...” THAT music. And then seeing Moffat’s name. And I had nobody to yell OHMYGODYOU’LLNEVERGUESSWHATTHEY’VEDONE at.
Love it. Tinged with sadness because soon after, it stopped being ‘my’ show. I still enjoy it, but the Smith era was/is the apex for me. Moffat could really sell a moment.

mothman

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #37 on: June 18, 2019, 05:54:23 PM »
I had that same reaction too. It was a great gift to the fans.

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #38 on: June 19, 2019, 04:32:12 PM »
It was amazing that they managed to keep McGann's appearance a secret. Almost everything leaks from Doctor Who, but to have that kept as a secret made it even more special. I must have gone home for an early lunch from work because I can't possibly explain how I was able to watch it "live". But I did and it was nothing short of brilliant, save perhaps for the low budget trickery they used for the John Hurt "reveal".

I'd love to see McGann do another series, perhaps in the vein of the 6 & Charlie audio adventures, with current companion(s) travelling with 8. Not with Chibnall writing though. McGann deserves better than that.

Norton Canes

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #39 on: June 19, 2019, 05:04:56 PM »
I think I saw it on the red button first, when it was on non-stop rotation; and I think I was lucky enough to join the loop before the McGann reveal, thus not spoiling it.

Here's a question that was asked on Gallifrey base not so long ago: which would you have preferred, The Five Doctors with Tom Baker or The Day Of The Doctor with Christopher Eccleston?

In the interests of a better story I think I'd go for Eccleston in The TDOTD - great as John Hurt was I never bought into the War Doctor storyline, it was clearly nothing but an emergency measure. But for sheer morbid fascination I'd go for Tom in T5D, purely to see what mood he was in, and if there was any tension visible between him and the other leading men. 

Alberon

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #40 on: June 19, 2019, 05:08:49 PM »
Tom Baker, because more of his Doctor can only be great.

Reworking the ninth Doctor into the War Doctor works too well. A lot of the interaction would stay largely the same, but you add an extra layer to the Doctor's self-hatred and anguish over the genocide he committed that day.

purlieu

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #41 on: June 19, 2019, 05:17:03 PM »
John Hurt was absolutely brilliant, and I love the meta angle of him almost being the voice of Classic Who fans who hate all the changes in the new series, which I don't think would have worked at all with Eccleston.
But I still find the whole numbering being off thing too weird to this day. Without Eccleston being in there, why not have McGann playing the part?!

Alberon

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #42 on: June 19, 2019, 05:21:18 PM »
The numbering is still buggered because David Tennant ended up playing two incarnations of the Doctor.

Jodie Whittaker is really playing the fifteenth Doctor, not the thirteenth.

And I just realised we're discussing old Who again.

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #43 on: June 19, 2019, 05:34:29 PM »
Nah, Tennant only counts as one. He only made the copy so Rose would leave him alone.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #44 on: June 19, 2019, 05:45:19 PM »
But I still find the whole numbering being off thing too weird to this day. Without Eccleston being in there, why not have McGann playing the part?!

Moffat's argument was that it didn't feel right to have either McGann or Eccleston as the Doctor responsible for committing genocide on Gallifrey.  That storyline was devised because Eccleston was unavailable, as far as I recall, so it's not necessarily the case that if we'd had Eccleston we'd have had the same story but with him instead of Hurt.  The Day of the Doctor rings so well because it's about a repressed incarnation of the Doctor we didn't know about, and the psychological undertones of accepting this past self in order to move on.  With Eccleston we'd have had something else I think.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #45 on: June 19, 2019, 05:46:25 PM »
I'd love to see McGann do another series, perhaps in the vein of the 6 & Charlie audio adventures, with current companion(s) travelling with 8. Not with Chibnall writing though. McGann deserves better than that.

He looks amazing these days - come on BBC3, pull your finger out!


Jerzy Bondov

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #46 on: June 19, 2019, 06:30:37 PM »
Nicola Walker as well. Why isn't that on TV instead of baby's first boring Doctor Who for babies

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #47 on: June 19, 2019, 06:41:52 PM »
Moffat's argument was that it didn't feel right to have either McGann or Eccleston as the Doctor responsible for committing genocide on Gallifrey.  That storyline was devised because Eccleston was unavailable, as far as I recall, so it's not necessarily the case that if we'd had Eccleston we'd have had the same story but with him instead of Hurt.  The Day of the Doctor rings so well because it's about a repressed incarnation of the Doctor we didn't know about, and the psychological undertones of accepting this past self in order to move on.  With Eccleston we'd have had something else I think.

The plot outline Moffat had when only had Clara was booked is a wonderful and mental read.

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #48 on: June 19, 2019, 06:48:51 PM »
He looks amazing these days - come on BBC3, pull your finger out!



In the EDA series, there's the Arc when he's stranded on Earth.

Rework that.


Throw in the one set in the 30s from later on (Eater of Wasps) but edited as a solo, end it with The Dying Days as a three parter. It'd be wonderful.


BritishHobo

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #49 on: June 19, 2019, 07:24:04 PM »
Nah, Tennant only counts as one. He only made the copy so Rose would leave him alone.

Isn't he counted twice in Smith's finale, saying that Clone Tennant and the War Doctor mean Smith is actually on his final regeneration?

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #50 on: June 19, 2019, 07:44:11 PM »
Isn't he counted twice in Smith's finale, saying that Clone Tennant and the War Doctor mean Smith is actually on his final regeneration?

The fact that a clone is made of the tenth Doctor is irrelevant to the regeneration limit.  The point isn't the extra body, but that a full regeneration's worth of regeneration energy is used up.  Then Tennant continues as himself rather than as another incarnation.

So the two incarnations of Tennant are the ones before and after the fake regeneration, representing the Doctor's eleventh and twelfth bodies, and the numbering has nothing to do with the sideline one that Rose presumably uses as a sex toy in her own reality.

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #51 on: June 19, 2019, 07:53:52 PM »
The fact that a clone is made of the tenth Doctor is irrelevant to the regeneration limit.  The point isn't the extra body, but that a full regeneration's worth of regeneration energy is used up.  Then Tennant continues as himself rather than as another incarnation.

So the two incarnations of Tennant are the ones before and after the fake regeneration, representing the Doctor's eleventh and twelfth bodies, and the numbering has nothing to do with the sideline one that Rose presumably uses as a sex toy in her own reality.

There aren't two Tennant incarnations, only one.  You're right in the first paragraph - he uses part of the regeneration to heal the injuries he got from the extermination blast, then siphons the rest of it off into his severed hand, before it can start causing him to change bodies.  So it's still the same body as before, just healed, rather than a copy of it.  Basically he's given up one of his allotted regenerations, so it means from then on that his twelfth life ie the Smith incarnation, is due to be the last one.

purlieu

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #52 on: June 19, 2019, 08:24:36 PM »
Jodie is the official 13th Doctor, the 14th incarnation of the Doctor, and the 15th body-created-by-the-Doctor's-regenerative-energy.



Moffat's argument was that it didn't feel right to have either McGann or Eccleston as the Doctor responsible for committing genocide on Gallifrey.  That storyline was devised because Eccleston was unavailable, as far as I recall, so it's not necessarily the case that if we'd had Eccleston we'd have had the same story but with him instead of Hurt.  The Day of the Doctor rings so well because it's about a repressed incarnation of the Doctor we didn't know about, and the psychological undertones of accepting this past self in order to move on.  With Eccleston we'd have had something else I think.
Yeah but the story should have included McGann. :(

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #53 on: June 19, 2019, 08:27:03 PM »
There aren't two Tennant incarnations, only one.  You're right in the first paragraph - he uses part of the regeneration to heal the injuries he got from the extermination blast, then siphons the rest of it off into his severed hand, before it can start causing him to change bodies.  So it's still the same body as before, just healed, rather than a copy of it.  Basically he's given up one of his allotted regenerations, so it means from then on that his twelfth life ie the Smith incarnation, is due to be the last one.

I thought that’s what I was saying, more or less.  Basically the “healed” Tennant is the twelfth incarnation of the Doctor, not the “cloned” Tennant.  There’s pedantry over my use of the word “incarnation” which I’m only using to describe the number of lives the Doctor has used up.

I’m always really confused when people think the Tennant clone has been counted in the regeneration limit.  He hasn’t.

mothman

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #54 on: June 19, 2019, 08:40:26 PM »
Yeah but it all adds up to the same thing, doesn’t it? Ten + (healing regen + spare energy clone) = two incarnations’ worth. Ten + Clone Ten = two incarnations’ worth.

I wish they’d done more with McGann. I presume they never even considered it. “Too confusing,” the BBC would say. But, worse still, if the BBC had been presented with the same DW Adventures/Lost Tales concept but with Tennant & Piper they’d have said yes in a shot...

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #55 on: June 19, 2019, 08:45:20 PM »
Yeah but it all adds up to the same thing, doesn’t it? Ten + (healing regen + spare energy clone) = two incarnations’ worth. Ten + Clone Ten = two incarnations’ worth.

It’s nothing to do with the clone.  It’s to do with the regeneration energy being expended.  Otherwise it makes as much sense to count the Flesh version of Matt Smith’s Doctor as an official incarnation.

mothman

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #56 on: June 19, 2019, 09:25:40 PM »
The Flesh version didn't require regenergy. So that's hardly an analogy.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #57 on: June 19, 2019, 09:31:55 PM »
The Flesh version didn't require regenergy. So that's hardly an analogy.

Okay, whatever suits you.

I just remember confusion at the time of the Christmas 2013 story with people saying “why on earth is the meta-crisis clone Doctor now counted amongst the Doctor’s lives?” and the singular response to that is that it isn’t counted.  I had a sense that people were confused again so I just thought I’d say what I said.

It’s not a conversation I’m much fussed about repeating either way.

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #58 on: June 19, 2019, 10:03:22 PM »
The plot outline Moffat had when only had Clara was booked is a wonderful and mental read.

What was that, then?

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #59 on: June 19, 2019, 11:12:51 PM »
It's still utterly insane to think Dr Who's Fiftieth Anniversary episode nearly went into production without the lead actor of the show being on board.

And yet against all the odds(I typed "all the oods" then by mistake, ha) it was a triumph, Moffat really pulled off a miracle with that one.