Author Topic: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge  (Read 42035 times)

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #60 on: June 19, 2019, 11:30:11 PM »
What was that, then?

They didn't have any Doctors, so, iirc, he'd have stunt cast all of them and the plot would have been that, at the end of Name, he'd removed himself from history. But these not-Doctors start popping up.


notjosh

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #61 on: June 20, 2019, 08:16:59 AM »
I wish they’d done more with McGann. I presume they never even considered it. “Too confusing,” the BBC would say.

Surely Netflix or Amazon Prime would snap that up if they offered it as a co-pro? I reckon you could get the BBC execs excited about it if you started throwing around the term "cinematic universe".

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #62 on: June 20, 2019, 08:36:05 AM »
They didn't have any Doctors, so, iirc, he'd have stunt cast all of them and the plot would have been that, at the end of Name, he'd removed himself from history. But these not-Doctors start popping up.

managed to find some of the quotes.

Quote
There wasn’t anything very enjoyable about doing [“The Day of the Doctor”]. I look back on it with great satisfaction—I think it’s a genuinely terrific episode of Doctor Who, I’ll just say that—but at the time... I was just upset. Everybody was cross with me, I remember that. Everybody was cross. Everybody.

The script was late, so everybody was cross at me, and I’m saying ‘Guys! Who’s in it, who have you got!? Nonono, You tell me who you’ve got, under contract, to be in it, because I promised this year’s Olympics. Could you tell me who’s in this?’

‘Jenna.’ And that was the list.

So I’m doing, celebrating 50 years of Doctor Who... with Jenna. Who’s wonderful, and one of my personal favorites, but I don’t think that’s really gonna cut it!

So I came up with an alternate version of the 50th. Which was, the Doctor having stepped into his own time stream at the end of [season 7 finale] “The Name of the Doctor,” he’s eliminated from all of space and time, and Clara is trying to remember him. And the Doctor turns up in various fictional forms, and she says ‘That story’s true, that wizard, that was the Doctor,’ so she keeps encountering this, and we have the Doctor played by a succession of very famous people. That was my plan. ‘Very famous people.’

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #63 on: June 20, 2019, 09:31:19 AM »
If only they could have had a bit more notice that the 50th anniversary was coming up.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #64 on: June 20, 2019, 12:52:04 PM »
The Terror of No Zygons

purlieu

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #65 on: June 20, 2019, 04:10:39 PM »
I reckon you could get the BBC execs excited about it if you started throwing around the term "cinematic universe".
After Class, I get the feeling the BBC might be slightly more wary of expanding the Cinematic Whoniverse on screen. I do understand the idea of only having one Doctor on screen at a time, but even something like a straight-to-DVD/streaming series co-produced by Big Finish or something would be nice.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #66 on: June 20, 2019, 06:25:50 PM »
We definitely should have called this thread something like

New Doctor Who General Chat 2019

subtitled in the OP as

(While we wait for Chris Chibnall to do something worth discussing)

Not that I'm complaining (about this thread that is, I'm certainly complaining about Chris), and at least I've got this thread's description for the next thread's list-post sorted out already. :-)

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #67 on: June 20, 2019, 08:40:40 PM »
Here's some actual news about an new episode, which I've put in spoiler text:

Doctor Who Series 12 Episode 2 is set to tell the story of Noor Inayat Khan, a World War II heroine who was posthumously awarded the George Cross, the highest civilian decoration in the UK. She’ll be played by Aurora Marion.

The Belgian actress, who has starred in A Wedding (2016) and the upcoming Echoes of the Past, revealed her costume on her Instagram page, with a tag that confirmed her role in the series. Khan trained as a wireless operator in the Women’s Auxiliary Air Force; she then went on to serve in the Special Operations Executive organisation, and was sent to aid the French Resistance. Also known as Nora Baker, she’s Britain’s first Muslim war heroine, so we hope this real-life tale will inspire companion, Yaz Khan (Mandip Gill).

Noor Inayat Khan was considered “highly dangerous” by the Nazis after she was captured and, following two escape attempts, was executed at the Dachau concentration camp in September 1944. A plaque in her honour can be found at the Dachau Memorial Hall. Her George Cross citation concluded: “Assistant Section Officer INAYAT-KHAN displayed the most conspicuous courage, both moral and physical over a period of more than
12 months.”

And a rumour which could be nonsense:

Are you ready for Doctor Who: The Musical? Don’t get too excited, but there are rumours that it’s going to happen during Series 12 – with K-Pop band, BTS apparently appearing in the show.

BTS is also known as the Bangtan Boys, and is a heavy-hitter in the South Korean Pop music scene; comprised 7 members, BTS was formed in 2013 and have enjoyed an increasing popularity in the UK recently. Now, the German magazine, Brave reports that they’ll make a guest appearance
in Series 12.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #68 on: June 21, 2019, 01:57:55 AM »
Fuck me.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #69 on: June 21, 2019, 07:19:23 AM »
Quote
so we hope this real-life tale will inspire companion, Yaz Khan (Mandip Gill)

I love that this is the main concern.  Not inspire, educate or move viewers, but give the vacuum of a companion a kick up the arse and a sense of purpose.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #70 on: June 21, 2019, 09:33:06 AM »
It won’t even do that, though.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #71 on: June 22, 2019, 08:29:09 AM »
Can't wait for the meltdown with either of those nuggets.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #72 on: June 22, 2019, 08:46:06 AM »
I'm just jumbling through in my mind what stopped Moffat from making McGann's Doctor do everything the War Doctor did?
It would have been a great twist: the Doctor who we* only saw the beginning of, loses it and destroys them all.
(It was still a slight issue for me, that Hurt wasn't a damn-them-all war monger and as avuncular as any Doctor)

*We meaning the general Doctor Who fans who barely touch Big Finish, books and even if we did, the only events that matter are in the TV version.

mothman

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #73 on: June 22, 2019, 03:38:01 PM »
If War has been irrational, I think his later selves would have perhaps found it easy to deal with what he did, rather than (try to) bury the memories. But instead he rationally chose to fight in a war rather than end it (even if it was really Eight who made that decision) and rationally chose to end it altogether via genocide. It’s the inhumanity of that choice that makes  the later versions repress him; to be all blood and guts, thunder and glory would be all too human. Only by living through that choice again was he able to understand it.

It’s also notable that it’s the Companion who helps him find a solution (and that War himself seemingly never had one). That to me perfectly encapsulates why the Doctor has a Companion - they’re not just there to scream at things and be Docsplained at. It’s just a shame it had to be bloody Clara that was the Companion to do it.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #74 on: June 22, 2019, 05:53:49 PM »
I'm just jumbling through in my mind what stopped Moffat from making McGann's Doctor do everything the War Doctor did?

It’s surely just because he wrote the story of Day of the Doctor after coming up with the idea of a repressed War Doctor.

He didn’t write the story and then try to work out whether the eighth or ninth Doctor should be the genocide Doctor.  He came up with this repressed incarnation and then the rest of the story bloomed around that.

So there never was a chance of McGann filling that particular gap.  If Moffat had wanted to cast McGann as one of the main Doctors alongside Tennant and Smith (he didn’t) then an entirely different story would have been written.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #75 on: June 22, 2019, 06:02:03 PM »
Here's some actual news about an new episode...

This could be great if Bradley Walsh gets to reappraise his scene in the Rosa Parks episode. This time fate demands he has to dress up as a Nazi officer and organize the firing squad all the while with that damp eyes look.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #76 on: June 22, 2019, 06:19:04 PM »
Or manually put Zyklon-B down a load of ventilation hatches into the shower rooms below, all cow-eyed with helplessness as muffled screams carry through the air before eventually smothering into silence.

It would be in very poor taste but highly educational and audiences would applaud its heavy-handedness.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #77 on: June 22, 2019, 06:22:18 PM »
Quote instead of modify

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #78 on: June 22, 2019, 07:29:05 PM »
It’s surely just because he wrote the story of Day of the Doctor after coming up with the idea of a repressed War Doctor.

He didn’t write the story and then try to work out whether the eighth or ninth Doctor should be the genocide Doctor.  He came up with this repressed incarnation and then the rest of the story bloomed around that.

So there never was a chance of McGann filling that particular gap.  If Moffat had wanted to cast McGann as one of the main Doctors alongside Tennant and Smith (he didn’t) then an entirely different story would have been written.

Sorry, no, the whole War Doctor concept was an issue created out of a casting contingency, not the other way round.

He wrote, or plotted, the story for Eccleston originally, and when it became clear that Eccleston wouldn't do it, he came up with the idea of a hidden incarnation.  So the rationale of it being 'repressed' was developed simply as a means of explaining why no-one had ever heard of that one before, but it was otherwise still the same basic idea for the story.  There are existing bits of script that he wrote for Eccleston and the Moment, as played by Piper.

If Eccleston had agreed to do the story, the War Doctor would never have been invented, it's down to that ultimately.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2019, 07:57:47 PM by Alternative Carpark »

notjosh

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #79 on: June 22, 2019, 08:04:37 PM »
Indeed - I remember this being discussed in a previous thread. There are even script and storyboard excerpts featuring Ecclestone's doctor.

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #80 on: June 22, 2019, 08:57:40 PM »
Quote instead of modify

We've all done it...

purlieu

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #81 on: June 22, 2019, 10:43:01 PM »
So the rationale of it being 'repressed' was developed simply as a means of explaining why no-one had ever heard of that one before
I'd love to hear his rationale of it not being McGann.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #82 on: June 23, 2019, 12:23:05 AM »
I believe there was a diktat from the sixth floor that it was either Ecclestone or a big guest star.

But yes, it should obviously have been McGann.

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #83 on: June 23, 2019, 01:14:18 PM »
AFAIAC, in the context of Doctor Who, McGann would have counted as a big guest star. (As did Baker in that scene at the end.)

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #84 on: June 23, 2019, 03:48:37 PM »
I don't get this thing about wanting McGann back. It's the same on 2000 AD forums with fans wanting Karl Urban back to play Dredd in the upcoming TV series. Now he was excellent in the 2012 movie and it's a shame it didn't get its proposed Cursed Earth sequel but that's gone now. The Rebellion series absolutely needs to forge its own identity and that means new casting, no associations with past versions. Same with the 50th story in Doctor Who.

purlieu

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #85 on: June 23, 2019, 05:07:13 PM »
That would make sense if not for:
a) the very nature of it being a 50th anniversary means it's about celebrating the past
b) by having Tennant and, provisionally, Eccleston in there, it has associations with past versions
c) by doing 'The Night of the Doctor' as part of the run-up, it had associations with past versions and, indeed, McGann
d) by showing every past Doctor in the climax of the show, it had associations with past versions
e) the show is part of one long continuity that frequently references its past

Really, though, it's more a case of, after losing one past Doctor, Moffat decided to invent a new one instead of just going with another, equally sensible past Doctor, one who barely got chance to be on TV.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #86 on: June 23, 2019, 05:17:28 PM »
AFAIAC, in the context of Doctor Who, McGann would have counted as a big guest star. (As did Baker in that scene at the end.)

A "big" guest star though. McGann's a fine actor with a healthy career, but he's not John Hurt.

Also there's a kind of taint there - John Hurt as a never-before-seen Doctor is an exciting new element for fans old and new to discover. Paul McGann as a Doctor who was on TV about 20 years prior, for all of an hour and a half, is fanwank that appeals to very long-tine viewers but would likely be alienating to the new and casual audience accrued since 2005.

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #87 on: June 23, 2019, 05:47:57 PM »
That would be my initial assumption but people were quite excited by Night of the Doctor, even people who weren't alive at the time of the TVM.

mothman

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #88 on: June 23, 2019, 06:58:26 PM »
Whatever, it worked out quite well. You never got the sense during his tenure that Nine was the one who’d ended the Time War. To pin it on Eight seems almost a disservice given how little we know about his tenure. Yet counterintuitively that worked with War’s total mystery. But between them NotD and DotD wrap it up quite nicely, showing why Eight decided to become War and why War decided to end the war in the way he (thought he) did. I’m happy to be another to out myself as regarding The Day Of The Doctor as my favourite episode.

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #89 on: June 24, 2019, 04:37:35 PM »
Moffatt, I thought, explained it with "8 seemed too joyous to be the one who did it"

clearly hasn't read half the EDAs

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