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Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge

Started by Deanjam, June 13, 2019, 04:35:22 PM

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Quote from: mothman on June 23, 2019, 06:58:26 PM
Whatever, it worked out quite well. You never got the sense during his tenure that Nine was the one who'd ended the Time War. To pin it on Eight seems almost a disservice given how little we know about his tenure. Yet counterintuitively that worked with War's total mystery. But between them NotD and DotD wrap it up quite nicely, showing why Eight decided to become War and why War decided to end the war in the way he (thought he) did. I'm happy to be another to out myself as regarding The Day Of The Doctor as my favourite episode.

the only issue I think I have with it is that it fails to convince me that War doesn't know he didn't do the deed in the end.

I'm not sure how much of a rewrite it needs but I think, to make complete sense, War has to regenerate not knowing if the plan worked and not knowing if he took G-town down with him.

That said, its very much my favourite new Dr Who episode or close to it. And whoever said buy the Target - yes, thank you. It's great.

Deanjam

8 descending from what we saw in the TV movie to a guy who wipes out his own people is much more interesting to me than the idea of creating a Doctor designed for war from some magic soup.

Mister Six

That would take more screentime than the BBC was willing to give, though.

Quote from: A Hat Like That on June 24, 2019, 04:41:13 PM
the only issue I think I have with it is that it fails to convince me that War doesn't know he didn't do the deed in the end.

I'm not sure how much of a rewrite it needs but I think, to make complete sense, War has to regenerate not knowing if the plan worked and not knowing if he took G-town down with him.

That said, its very much my favourite new Dr Who episode or close to it. And whoever said buy the Target - yes, thank you. It's great.

The previous Doctors always forget the multi-Doctor events until they are back in them again (thus 11 hazily remembering the portal and the fez). And with that being the case, 9 will come to after his regeneration with no recollection of what happened after he set up the Moment in the barn.

So when he tries to return to Gallifrey and finds it and all the Daleks gone, he'll presume that he's destroyed them with the Moment.

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Quote from: Huxleys Babkins on June 24, 2019, 05:29:04 PM
The previous Doctors always forget the multi-Doctor events until they are back in them again (thus 11 hazily remembering the portal and the fez).

Yes.  I rather like how this retroactively explains why previous multi-Doctor stories feature all the Doctors being unaware of what is happening rather than only the earliest incarnation.

Kelvin

Quote from: Deanjam on June 24, 2019, 04:46:43 PM
8 descending from what we saw in the TV movie to a guy who wipes out his own people is much more interesting to me than the idea of creating a Doctor designed for war from some magic soup.

Anything would be better than the magic soup. I feel like that fundamentally undermines the Doctor's involvement in the Time War in a way that almost renders that entire arc pointless. If the only reason that the Doctor was willing to fight in a war was because he was effectively on mind/personality altering drugs, then all the subsequent  soul searching is effectively about searching the soul of a different charachter.

purlieu

I never took that from it, just the Sisterhood were able to trigger a very specific regeneration in him, rather than it being random, and thus doing so were able to ensure his next incarnation would be the most ruthless and most likely to fight in a war. It was still him, a potential version brought out at the time he was most needed.

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#97
It also made it seem exciting, for a while, that in a related manner Missy/the Master might have been responsible for granting the Doctor's new regeneration cycle in Time of the Doctor, and all the "Am I a good man?" morality stuff was going somewhere concerning what she might have done to him and the Twelfth Doctor's resulting arc (she might have used the sisterhood technology to manipulate his personality somehow, especially since in Series 8 she was all about trying to make him more like her).

Sadly that idea of mine never came into being in the show - all those morality trajectories went nowhere, and it was just the Time Lords generically that granted the Doctor his new regeneration cycle because they apparently love him so very much.

Mister Six

Quote from: purlieu on June 25, 2019, 01:31:18 PM
I never took that from it, just the Sisterhood were able to trigger a very specific regeneration in him, rather than it being random, and thus doing so were able to ensure his next incarnation would be the most ruthless and most likely to fight in a war. It was still him, a potential version brought out at the time he was most needed.

And McGann still made the decision to become that man, so it's not like The Doctor as a whole is absolved of responsibility.

Thomas

Moffat's marrrrvelously creative novelisation expands on the mysteries of the potion: it was fruit juice.

Thomas

Social media update. It's the present day, 2019, and so yer boys Eccleston and Moffat are on The Instagrams, interacting with fans. Moff's been on there for a few years; here he is recently being diplomatic:



Eccles is new to Insta. Here he is laying bare his feelings about the character of Captain Jack Harkness. Just the character, I'm sure.




VelourSpirit

Quote from: Thomas on June 25, 2019, 05:14:39 PM
Moffat's marrrrvelously creative novelisation expands on the mysteries of the potion: it was fruit juice.

One of my favourite lines in the book, out of many. It's full of cheeky meta winks at the audience and some of them add such substance. I really really love the idea that the potion was a placebo.

VelourSpirit

Quote from: Thomas on June 25, 2019, 06:00:41 PM
Social media update. It's the present day, 2019, and so yer boys Eccleston and Moffat are on The Instagrams, interacting with fans. Moff's been on there for a few years; here he is recently being diplomatic:

I don't think fans should be putting him in this position, there's no way anyone should expect him to put up with people slagging off his friend's series. I do find it difficult to believe a writer of Moffat's caliber would actually be impressed by series 11 though.

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Would you also recommend RTD's novelisation of Rose?

Mister Six

Ha, is that Eccleston one real? I heard about Barrowman pulling some "hilarious" pranks on the set of Torchwood but it didn't occur to me he might have done them in front of an unamused Eccles.

Thomas

Quote from: Mister Six on June 25, 2019, 06:23:17 PM
Ha, is that Eccleston one real? I heard about Barrowman pulling some "hilarious" pranks on the set of Torchwood but it didn't occur to me he might have done them in front of an unamused Eccles.

Yep, he's blue-ticked. I've heard murmur of Barrowman's cheeky japes. Be warned: journalistic language ahead.

QuoteThe Scottish-born actor has a reputation for getting his penis out during interviews.

And the former Live and Kicking presenter was even forced to apologise after flopping his willy out during during an interview with Nick Grimshaw and Annie Mac in 2008.

"You're famous, we're told for getting your willy out in interviews," asked Grimshaw. "Is this going to happen today?"

Barrowman said he was going to "get it out" while there was a lot of shouting and laughing in the studio.

Barrowman then pulled out his meat and veg - causing chaos in the BBC Radio 1 studio.

Perhaps they just didn't see eye to eye. Also in 2008 Bazzer said this about Eccleston:

QuoteChris was always grumpy. You don't always have to be intense. There comes a point when intensity makes you miserable - I think that was the case with Chris... Chris might have been a great Doc but he was darker and had a chip on his shoulder, he was not as much fun on set as David. I will give him the credit that he was the first Doctor to bring back the series and made a damn good job of it. But I just wouldn't go to the pub with him.

Deanjam


Mister Six

The story I heard was that the prop for that magic eyeball in that season one Torchwood episode about the ghost lad went missing, only for Barrowman to walk on set, pull down his trousers and squeeze it out of his bum.

I think it was on Popbitch, so feel free to take with a sack of salt.

Thomas

If that's true, they might as well have filmed it and included it in the episode. In character for Jack, and would have cheered things up a bit.

kidsick5000

Quote from: Thomas on June 25, 2019, 06:00:41 PM
Eccles is new to Insta. Here he is laying bare his feelings about the character of Captain Jack Harkness. Just the character, I'm sure.


He's an enigma is that Mr E.
There's a long enough trail of incidents where you have to wonder how much of them are down to him.
He occasionally comes off as able to start an argument in an empty room.
That said, Barrowman also seems like someone  who simply MUST be heard, even when he thinking.

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Quote from: Deanjam on June 25, 2019, 06:33:50 PM
God, Barrowman sounds such a bore.

Weird how it's still deemed lolbantz when it's really only a couple of steps away from what Louis CK was done for.

Keith Allen is known for having a similar condition; things like placing his cock on his mate's shoulders while they were sitting down chatting with someone, and things like this.  Popping his knob in their beer for a hoot.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

'Incorrigible japesters' such as Barrowman always regards anyone who doesn't laugh at their antics as boring and grumpy, when the truth of the matter is that the likes of yer Eccles just find that sort of thing utterly tiresome and unfunny. And they are right to do so.

The image of Eccleston staring at Barrowman with granite-faced disdain while the latter shoves his cock into a grapefruit or whatever has made my day.

However, to be fair to Mr Fabulous, he did come across as a nice bloke on I'm a Celeb last year. Maybe he's grown up a bit.

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Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on June 25, 2019, 06:47:01 PM
'Incorrigible japesters' such as Barrowman always regards anyone who doesn't laugh at their antics as boring and grumpy, when the truth of the matter is that the likes of yer Eccles just find that sort of thing utterly tiresome and unfunny. And they are right to do so.

Bradley Walsh seems to be similarly inclined towards "look at me" shenanigans on set.  I don't think I could bear it.

mothman

Mel Gibson was another on-set prankster. And we all know how that turned out.

kidsick5000

Quote from: Replies From View on June 25, 2019, 06:44:51 PM
Weird how it's still deemed lolbantz when it's really only a couple of steps away from what Louis CK was done for.

Such fun mortifies Bob Mortimer.
https://youtu.be/PwyUf0OlBsM?t=2515

mothman

Does Eccleston take himself too seriously? I'm not sure. His disdain for some parts of his filmography might suggest that. But some of the voiceover work he's done makes me think not. I suspect he's just maybe a bit too professional when doing his job, he's very serious about his craft.



Eccleston & Barrowman have it out.

olliebean

"Too professional when doing his job," like that's a thing.

mothman


olliebean

Quote from: mothman on June 25, 2019, 08:02:15 PM
As in, "no time for lolbantz."

The time for lolbantz is when one is not supposed to be doing one's job.

mothman