Author Topic: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge  (Read 123915 times)

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2310 on: February 07, 2020, 09:51:12 PM »
Watched episode seven and I can say, without fear of censure or contradiction, that it's definitely another episode of Chibnall's Doctor Who.


Malcy

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2311 on: February 07, 2020, 10:10:40 PM »
Watched episode seven and I can say, without fear of censure or contradiction, that it's definitely another episode of Chibnall's Doctor Who.
Does the co-write add anything to the arc?

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2312 on: February 07, 2020, 10:53:23 PM »
If Ballard has seen it then I doubt there will be anything.

Rather than salting things throughout the series it seems the arc is just some stuff tacked on to Spyfall at the end, the, admittedly entertaining, series of reveals in the Judoon episode and some amount in the Cyberman two-parter. And nowhere else.

Davies and Moffatt had their own troubles landing the arcs they'd set off, but Chibnall is just going to fly it straight into the terrain. Going into it with zero expectation means if the series is anything less than a smoking hole in the ground by the end of episode ten then I can be pleasantly surprised.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2313 on: February 07, 2020, 10:59:31 PM »
Does the co-write add anything to the arc?

I can't be specific about that sort of thing, Malcy.

All I can say is the episode, which contains some potentially interesting ideas, feels like a muddled victim of several rewrites, all of them pulling in different directions. Whatever it was originally trying to get across - and it does touch upon a sensitive issue - has been diluted at some point during the collaborative writing process. 


I'd provide a longer spoiler-free preview if I could, but I can't be arsed. I'm running out of steam.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2020, 11:21:25 PM by Ballad of Ballard Berkley »

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2314 on: February 08, 2020, 12:01:36 AM »
It feels wrong that we're more than half way through the series, with only three stories left. So far, every episode has been set on Earth, and revelations aside there are running themes.

SPYFALL 1: Technology man is bad. Armed forces are good.
SPYFALL 2: Technology pioneer is good. Armed forces are good.
ORPHAN 55: Pollution caused by technology is bad. Armed forces are bad.
TESLA: Technology pioneer is good. Aliens who are crap at fixing technology are bad.
JUDOON: Armed forces are bad.
PRAXEUS: Pollution caused by technology is bad.

The crunch between Orphan and Tesla was noticeable. Hopefully the next episode, the Doctor saves the day by pumping oil into the ocean.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2315 on: February 08, 2020, 12:26:45 AM »
Oooh I’ve just thought maybe Captain Planet could know the Doctor and be all like “alright Doc” and the Doctor could be like “alright Captain Planet”.

Malcy

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2316 on: February 08, 2020, 12:51:35 AM »
I can't be specific about that sort of thing, Malcy.

All I can say is the episode, which contains some potentially interesting ideas, feels like a muddled victim of several rewrites, all of them pulling in different directions. Whatever it was originally trying to get across - and it does touch upon a sensitive issue - has been diluted at some point during the collaborative writing process. 


I'd provide a longer spoiler-free preview if I could, but I can't be arsed. I'm running out of steam.

No worries. I thought after I posted that you wouldn't be able to say if there was. I'm seeing the last 3 episodes as one big finale anyway so not long to go!

I'd love to be able to wait and binge them but spoilers are so widespread minutes after episodes of anything air these days that I reckon it would be impossible but I may try.

Be a good excuse to get off t'internet for a couple of weeks.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2317 on: February 08, 2020, 04:19:22 AM »
Ha, yes, that is a tricky one. But as a Thirteen story, it'd all be her narrating and explaining things anyway.

THIRTEEN: Oh, hello. I'm the Doctor. And you're... No way! No actual way! But this means... But that's impossible! But you're...
ELEVEN: I'm the Doctor.
RYAN: Woah. This is weird.
THIRTEEN: Oh, brilliant! This is really brilliant. I love you! I never thought I'd get to tell you, but I really love you.
YAZ: I don't understand, Doctor – who is this?
THIRTEEN: Yaz, this is me. The Doctor. But a younger Doctor. My... Eleventh Regeneration. He must've come through a time hole[1]. I was younger back then, but I acted older.
ELEVEN: Hey! I'm not acting old, I'm cool. And you can talk: what happened to your trousers, a problem with the time-space differential?
THIRTEEN: But he was brilliant. He defeated the Weeping Angels. He fought his way out of the heart of the Asylum of the Daleks. Defended the universe at Trenzalore.
ELEVEN (enjoying the praise): Well, now... (But then serious) Hold on, Trenzalore? You said... Trenzalore?
GRAHAM: Hey, Doc, if you're him from the future, maybe he hasn't done that yet?
THIRTEEN: Oh! Yes, sorry. Of course: spoilers. Thanks Graham. Doctor, this is Ryan, Graham, and Yaz. My fam.
RYAN: Hey.
GRAHAM: Pleased to meet you, Doc.
YAZ: So... You're the Doctor?

Etc. etc. She can spend her time reading out what's happening. The other Doctors can remark on her clothing and sonic screwdriver, and we can all try to pretend that her defining characteristic is kindness rather than the combination of a weird nonchalance and affection for celebrities.
 1. Placeholder dialogue that will never be rewritten

That's perfect. Bravo.

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2318 on: February 08, 2020, 10:23:20 AM »
Chibnall in DWM on the finale:
"I imagine everyone who reads the magazine will be aware of all the seeds we've been laying down since the arrival of Jodie's Doctor."

It's one seed Chris!

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2319 on: February 08, 2020, 12:27:53 PM »
You don’t “lay down” seeds that you want to live.  You “plant” them.


Enough of the endless funeral analogies Mr Chibnall, however apt they may unwittingly be.

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2320 on: February 08, 2020, 06:05:41 PM »
It's one seed Chris!

If anything, they've de-seeded the ground since Jodie arrived. At least in her first series two of the companions had Dead Nan and the inevitable Granddad Fistbump to play out. Since Microwave Dad put a bow on all that, there's been no storyline for any of the companions.

Although fair's fair's fair's fair, in Praxeus presumably the non-Chibnall bit of the writing team did think of giving Yaz a hint of a personality.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2321 on: February 08, 2020, 06:55:24 PM »
It was such a sudden show of reckless courage and personality that I thought she was about to be killed off, à la Clara.

It's one seed Chris!

If this was the Moffat era, people would still be hankering for an explanation of how the Doctor survived her fall into the train in The Woman Who Fell to Earth.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2322 on: February 08, 2020, 07:29:24 PM »
It was such a sudden show of reckless courage and personality that I thought she was about to be killed off, à la Clara.

That annoyed me. "Meet me here in an hour." Er, why not take the TARDIS back to right this second once you've sorted out the astronaut, so Yaz doesn't go it (almost) alone?

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2323 on: February 08, 2020, 07:52:05 PM »
You have to accept a bit of arbitrarily not using the time machine here and there, but that stood out to me too. I think especially because an hour's a really long time to spend somewhere that they'd just escaped being shot, where the thing Yaz was after seemed to be all of a couple minute's walk away, and after we've just watched several scenes of the Doctor entertainingly pinging about the globe in an instant.

There was some other funny time business going on in this episode: The bloke in Madagascar was stood on the beach watching the birds fly about menacingly for what seemed like hours, and when they finally attacked the building it suddenly went from the attack beginning to "Hold on, they've gone quiet" like a scene had been removed from the middle.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2324 on: February 08, 2020, 07:58:58 PM »
Yeah you can't make a point of having the TARDIS materialising all over the place (and use it to save someone at the end) and then have Yaz run off for an hour without contriving a bit of an explanation.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2325 on: February 08, 2020, 08:27:22 PM »
What stood out to me about that scene was the vlogger who only knew Ryan suddenly deciding to go with Yaz - a stranger - on a lethal mission she knew nothing about. And Yaz and The Doctor thinking that this was completely fine.   

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2326 on: February 09, 2020, 08:03:43 PM »
If you're suffering from doubts, depression, anxiety, please make sure you talk to someone about it.

Unless that person is socially awkward, in which case your concerns will be ignored completely.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2020, 08:18:41 PM by Kelvin »

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2327 on: February 09, 2020, 08:08:58 PM »
yeah what the fuck was that about lol, you think she's gonna take a moment and then actually say something useful but the conversation just ends. that's way colder than series 8 capaldi was at his coldest.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2328 on: February 09, 2020, 08:13:19 PM »
What stood out to me about that scene was the vlogger who only knew Ryan suddenly deciding to go with Yaz - a stranger - on a lethal mission she knew nothing about. And Yaz and The Doctor thinking that this was completely fine.

The girl was also quick to assume that tall, muscular Ryan couldn't possibly have kidnapped, raped and murdered her vanished friend because he was (for some reason) carrying around an empty backpack. Maybe she's just thick?

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2329 on: February 09, 2020, 08:19:29 PM »
Not a bad episode, some lovely fucked-up imagery with the fingers, though the defeat of the baddies was a bit sudden. The epilogue was largely good though the Doctor did drop the ball disappointingly there with Graham.

Liked the mentions of the Eternals, the Guardians and the Celestial Toymaker though.

Tosin Cole seemed to get better with acting again with his friend. Put him in a contemporary setting with no SF content, like with Microwave Dad, and he wakes up a bit.

Generally a good episode, though the Doctor was the weakest link in it. 

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2330 on: February 09, 2020, 08:47:31 PM »
Ryan forgets he has dyspraxia again.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2331 on: February 09, 2020, 08:50:41 PM »
You know what? I actually watched that one, so credit where it's due.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2332 on: February 09, 2020, 09:23:50 PM »
If you're suffering from doubts, depression, anxiety, please make sure you talk to someone about it.

Unless that person is socially awkward, in which case your concerns will be ignored completely.

Where did that come from? Jodie's Doctor is quite huggy and warm, but when Graham opened up about his deep-seated fears, she suddenly morphed into "no hugging" Capaldi. She's so inconsistent. Why, it's almost as if she doesn't have a defined character at all.

Ach. That episode wasn't bad. On a second watch, I noticed that it did at least attempt to clumsily tie its themes together.

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2333 on: February 09, 2020, 09:27:54 PM »
It was, however, yet another episode where I hoped the 'baddies' won because I just don't care about the main characters.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2334 on: February 09, 2020, 09:37:57 PM »
I would pay actual human money to see the casting sheet for those three ciphers:

"RYAN SINCLAIR - M/25-30; feckless cretin, intermittent dyspraxia"

Wait... I actually read the BBC website for that joke and the companions are supposed to be NINETEEN?!? Are you fucking joking?

Alberon

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2335 on: February 09, 2020, 10:04:13 PM »
This is an easy one this week.

The Yaz/Graham Chronicles Series Two Episode Seven

Could You Speak Up a Bit?


Quote

Yep. Nothing.

I think if I did a Yaz/Graham/Ryan Chronicle for this episode the result would be just about the same. Almost zero interaction between all four cast members this week. The only big bit is when Graham unloads his fears onto the Doctor and she just shrugs in reply.

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2336 on: February 09, 2020, 10:08:54 PM »
I think they accidentally made a good one there.

Genuinely thought Ryan was going to announce he was gay.

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2337 on: February 09, 2020, 10:22:42 PM »
Ryan can't announce anything, like all of the other pointless characters.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2338 on: February 09, 2020, 10:37:37 PM »
If you're suffering from doubts, depression, anxiety, please make sure you talk to someone about it.

Unless that person is socially awkward, in which case your concerns will be ignored completely.

Rewrite:
GRAHAM says his monologue. The DOCTOR just looks at him for a moment, then steps forward and gently gives him a hug.
DOCTOR
I don't know what I can say to make it alright, or to make you feel better, but if you ever need me I promise I'll be there to help you.
(pause)
GRAHAM
Thanks, Doc. That's what I needed to hear.
CUT TO LONG SHOT OF THEM HUGGING

There, that's ready enough to fix. But only the first one's free, Chibbers.

Malcy

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2339 on: February 09, 2020, 10:40:36 PM »
The mention of the Eternals reminded me of the early rumours about the Chibnall Era. Mainly that the arc would be Eternals vs Vampires. Which sounded awful then and still does.

Enjoyed it but I'm too interested in the next 3 to properly enjoy anything else. Thought it wouldn't have been out of place in early series 7.

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