Author Topic: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge  (Read 123811 times)

The Giggling Bean

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2370 on: February 10, 2020, 11:28:58 PM »
I wonder if it's possible to imagine any previous incarnations of the Doctor dealing with Grahams cancer chat in a worse way. Probably not apart from Colin Baker who would try to throttle the cancer out of you.

Davison and Troughton would be the best, obviously.

Funnily enough the topic of Cancer was brought up in the Big Finish play "The Reaping" starring Colin Baker. He uses it to show a depressed gentleman he teams up with, who lost his wife to Cancer, the strength that's possessed to fight it and despite having gone through it there were still good times that the disease couldn't overshadow. It was pretty sensitively handled. That scene last night played out like a bad Simpsons joke. "Yes, I see you've got something terribly important to say but I'm just going to go and stand over here now". They could have written something similar and uplifting about the human spirit to fight for life or something philosophical about finding strength in fragility but they pissed it away with some comedy gurning and a sub par cartoon joke.

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2371 on: February 11, 2020, 10:51:04 AM »
Christ the themes are so heavy handed in Chibnall's era. And there is no way that The Doctor is socially awkward. She is constantly talking to strangers. She might have problems with emotion. compassion or emotional closeness but that isn't the same thing. She's not a fucking android

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2372 on: February 11, 2020, 11:30:27 AM »
Christ the themes are so heavy handed in Chibnall's era. And there is no way that The Doctor is socially awkward. She is constantly talking to strangers. She might have problems with emotion. compassion or emotional closeness but that isn't the same thing. She's not a fucking android

Like I said, socially awkward in that they (including previous generations) sometimes say or do things that aren't socially appropriate, but never self-consciously socially awkward in the way Whittaker was in that scene. Certainly never reticent because they can't think of the right thing to say.

daf

  • some weirdo taking the piss
Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2373 on: February 11, 2020, 11:33:35 AM »
I bet the Doctor Ruth would have given him a big old hug!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
(The Sixth doctor would have told him to pull himself together, then offered him a slice of Evelyn Smythe's deliceous chocolate cake.)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2020, 11:55:49 AM by daf »

Norton Canes

  • In today's room, with today's view
Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2374 on: February 11, 2020, 12:09:26 PM »
Woah. This has turned into Hitch Hiker's Guide To The Galaxy.

Norton Canes

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2375 on: February 11, 2020, 12:13:27 PM »
The fuck? A jumping sonic?

daf

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2376 on: February 11, 2020, 12:16:05 PM »
Woah. This has turned into Hitch Hiker's Guide To The Galaxy.

I really liked that bit - I'm sure it was a deliberate homage

daf

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2377 on: February 11, 2020, 12:17:05 PM »

Norton Canes

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2378 on: February 11, 2020, 12:19:32 PM »
Ryan, man! Just kiss him!

Norton Canes

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2379 on: February 11, 2020, 12:22:18 PM »
Sorry I'm not quite sure what the message is this week, it's all a bit too subtle

Norton Canes

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2380 on: February 11, 2020, 12:24:25 PM »
++ CRY NOW ++ CRY NOW ++ CRY NOW ++

Norton Canes

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2381 on: February 11, 2020, 12:25:21 PM »
This TARDIS really needs a little lounge or something

Norton Canes

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2382 on: February 11, 2020, 12:26:55 PM »
Ha ha FUCK YOU GRAHAM

Alberon

  • His heart is an empty fridge
Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2383 on: February 11, 2020, 12:27:56 PM »
Sorry I'm not quite sure what the message is this week, it's all a bit too subtle

It was something about biscuits, as far as I can work out anyway.

Norton Canes

  • In today's room, with today's view
Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2384 on: February 11, 2020, 12:36:09 PM »
I wonder if it's possible to imagine any previous incarnations of the Doctor dealing with Grahams cancer chat in a worse way

I don't know, I can imagine Tom Baker responding with a dismissive "There are thirty thousand civilisations being destroyed every day, I don't have time to worry about one person's cancer"

Quote
Probably not apart from Colin Baker who would try to throttle the cancer out of you

Cancer? Cancer??

...CANCER??!!

Quote
Davison and Troughton would be the best, obviously

"Don't worry, my child, we should be able to take care of a nasty dose of chancer... of cancer"

Norton Canes

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2385 on: February 11, 2020, 02:40:05 PM »
Anyway not a bad effort, and significantly the first one this season that - despite its dog's dinner of a coda - hasn't collapsed after anything from 15-odd to thirty minutes. But I'm afraid to say that Jodie is becoming a real vacuum at the centre of these stories. I think we'd look a lot more favorably on this season (or at least overlook a few more of its shortcomings) if it had a really magnetic, compelling performance at its core.

daf

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2386 on: February 11, 2020, 02:45:23 PM »
if it had a really magnetic, compelling performance at its core.


Norton Canes

  • In today's room, with today's view
Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2387 on: February 11, 2020, 02:48:23 PM »
At least she has some discernible character traits

Chairman Yang

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2388 on: February 11, 2020, 02:59:51 PM »
Maybe she's blowing off Graham's worries because Seven deliberately gave him cancer as part of his centuries long game against his immortal enemy Ryan's Nan?

daf

  • some weirdo taking the piss
Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2389 on: February 11, 2020, 03:08:18 PM »
Maybe she's blowing off Graham

He should be so lucky!

Nowhere Man

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2390 on: February 12, 2020, 01:09:17 AM »
edit: fuck it never mind
« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 02:00:43 AM by Nowhere Man »

Norton Canes

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2391 on: February 12, 2020, 12:34:08 PM »
Just remembered there are Daleks          in the final story too aren't there, if those photos from a couple of months ago are to be believed.

Malcy

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2392 on: February 12, 2020, 01:31:14 PM »
Just remembered there are Daleks          in the final story too aren't there, if those photos from a couple of months ago are to be believed.

Next special rather than finale I think but could appear as a lead in.

Norton Canes

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2393 on: February 12, 2020, 01:50:59 PM »
Would they have filmed more than a year ahead for a New Year special?

Alberon

  • His heart is an empty fridge
Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2394 on: February 12, 2020, 02:53:08 PM »
Considering the next series won’t probably be broadcast until autumn 2021 - yes.

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2395 on: February 12, 2020, 05:28:09 PM »
Quote from: The BBC
Thank you for contacting us about Doctor Who: Can you Hear Me? with your feedback that it was insensitive for the Doctor to dismiss Graham’s cancer concerns.

We never set out to upset our viewers with what we show and this episode tackled some sensitive themes. The episode used dreams and nightmares to explore the inner lives of the companions. Thanks to Zellin’s nightmare powers, Ryan, Yaz, and Graham were forced to confront their worst fears, many of which relate to the way traveling with the Doctor has changed their lives.

When Graham opened up to the Doctor about his fear of his cancer returning her response was never meant to be dismissive. The Doctor’s friend was scared, and we see her struggling to deal with the severity of the situation.

The intention of the scene was to acknowledge how hard it can be to deal with conversations on this subject matter. When faced with these situations, people don’t always have the right words to say at the right time, and this can often lead to feelings of guilt. By showing the Doctor struggling to find the right words, the intention was to sympathise with all those who may have found themselves in a similar position.

We hope this has helped to address your concerns, but please be assured your feedback has been raised with the programme’s Executive Producer.

https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2020-02-12/doctor-who-complaints-doctor-graham/

So the intention was to sympathise with people who, when faced with a difficult conversation, deal with it by saying "Sorry, I'm socially awkward" and walking away?

Kelvin

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2396 on: February 12, 2020, 06:15:53 PM »
To be honest, The Doctor could have called him a boring cancer cunt, for all I care. If that was the character and the point, I don't care how callous she is.

What annoyed me was that, before that scene, they seemed to be making the unsubtle point that people suffering from depression / anxiety should talk to someone about it, not bottle it up and suffer alone. To then immediately show the Doctor avoid an awkward subject and expect Graham to carry on undermined that Very Special Message.

Either use your episode to make a simple educational point for young people about speaking up or make it a character-led moment about the Doctor being awkward around certain issues. You can't make two such heavy handed, sloppily written points and not expect them to seem contradictory.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2397 on: February 12, 2020, 09:49:30 PM »
To be honest, The Doctor could have called him a boring cancer cunt, for all I care. If that was the character and the point, I don't care how callous she is.

What annoyed me was that, before that scene, they seemed to be making the unsubtle point that people suffering from depression / anxiety should talk to someone about it, not bottle it up and suffer alone. To then immediately show the Doctor avoid an awkward subject and expect Graham to carry on undermined that Very Special Message.

Either use your episode to make a simple educational point for young people about speaking up or make it a character-led moment about the Doctor being awkward around certain issues. You can't make two such heavy handed, sloppily written points and not expect them to seem contradictory.

Exactly. It was a particularly frustrating Chibs episode insomuch as, for once, it appeared to be embedding its well-intentioned, if heavy-handed, message within the fabric of a thematically consistent story. Depression, anxiety, loneliness, hopelessness, the importance of talking about these feelings without fear of censure, that's what the episode was ostensibly about.

And then the Doctor goes "Yeah, can't really deal with this, mate" when Graham talks to her about his cancer. 

It makes no sense whatsoever.

Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2398 on: February 12, 2020, 10:05:48 PM »
mental health issues = serious issue, needs to be addressed

physical health issues = old school, we all know those are real, get fucked cancer guy

Thomas

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge
« Reply #2399 on: February 12, 2020, 10:49:25 PM »
Exactly. It was a particularly frustrating Chibs episode insomuch as, for once, it appeared to be embedding its well-intentioned, if heavy-handed, message within the fabric of a thematically consistent story. Depression, anxiety, loneliness, hopelessness, the importance of talking about these feelings without fear of censure, that's what the episode was ostensibly about.

And then the Doctor goes "Yeah, can't really deal with this, mate" when Graham talks to her about his cancer. 

It makes no sense whatsoever.

I'd say perhaps it was to emphasise the starkly alien nature of the Doctor, especially as it's followed by the companions considering leaving - but the BBC's statement nixes that. I wonder if the explanation is direct from Chibbo, or something they quickly came up.

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