Author Topic: Toy Story 4  (Read 3753 times)

Thomas

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Re: Toy Story 4
« Reply #60 on: June 23, 2019, 08:39:48 PM »
I thought that was fantastic. I disagree that it was a rehash - to me it continued the Toy Story sequel tradition of making itself seem a completely natural and necessary addition. Every time you think they've completed it and that another sequel would ruin things, they prove otherwise. This to me felt even bigger and more existential than the last one even - looking at Woody's obsession with being there for a kid, and what happens out in the world to any number of toys who for whatever reason are discarded or unable to find one. I don't know, the whole set-up of him considering the idea of leaving that behind and living his life felt like such a huge shift in the films, something truly significant thematically rather than just being a hasty 'the further adventures of...' Even two days later I feel a little staggered by moments like Woody and Bo talking under the car, facing up to the likelihood that he will never see her again. It gave more substance to the whole idea of the franchise - the characters really have to deal with some fucking huge, very adult decisions in this world. And fuck me did it look good. The rain in the opening scene, the reflection off Bo's ceramic material, the cat, the characters in general. Toy Story 2 was on BBC today and it looks fucking piss compared to this - how amazing is that?

There were a couple of drags - the formula of 'wahey, we're almost where we need to be- wait, *turns around* where's Woody/Forky/Buzz?!' starts to get a little repetitive, and I almost wish they'd been bold enough to leave all the side characters at home, rather than have them milling around like spare parts - but overall it was a really worthy sequel. As always it feels like totally its own thing, with a really memorable new cast of characters. Gabby Gabby especially I really loved - kinda redoing the Stinky Pete thing with more empathy.

Don't have time this evening to write a post as long as Hobo's eloquent review, but I felt I ought to pitch into the thread and say that - despite my initial scepticism, regarding 1-3 as a perfect finished trilogy - I also really enjoyed Toy Story 4.

3 was a moving conclusion for Andy's childhood. 4 provides a touching conclusion to Woody's personal journey. As a toy fixated with Andy for three outings, it does make story sense that Woody would continue to bang on about how things were done in the Andy Days, and his own role as 'the favourite toy', before coming to terms with life beyond that. I though the film had a surprising amount of things to say.

I was even happy with the way all the continued issues of magical toy sentience were handled, as discussed in this great thread. Loved Forky's final line. 'I... don't know.'


For the second time in this franchise (horrid word), I think that's a fine place to leave it. Looked absolutely incredible, too.

Saw a Forky toy for sale the other day. About a foot tall, with sounds and moving parts. Amazingly point-missing toy.

Twed

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Re: Toy Story 4
« Reply #61 on: June 23, 2019, 08:42:53 PM »
Sounds like this would fucking destroy me.

Re: Toy Story 4
« Reply #62 on: June 23, 2019, 09:14:47 PM »
Saw a Forky toy for sale the other day. About a foot tall, with sounds and moving parts. Amazingly point-missing toy.
https://www.shopdisney.com/toy-story-4-create-your-own-forky-kit-1507963

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Re: Toy Story 4
« Reply #63 on: June 23, 2019, 10:25:42 PM »
This has already happened.

How many?

Re: Toy Story 4
« Reply #64 on: June 23, 2019, 10:33:04 PM »
I’m very much in the “alright enough, but didn’t need to exist” camp.  If this is indeed the final entry (unlike others, I can see many ways for it to continue after that ending), then I think it’ll come to be seen as a bit of a misstep given how perfectly Toy Story 3 tied things up.

It may also be because Pixar’s work has become so homogenous (especially so in the decade or so since TS3 came out), so it was oddly predictable - twists and “feels” and all - and didn’t really do much to stand out from the crowd in the way previous entries always have.  Obviously it’s the most technically/visually impressive one, but that’s not surprising.

A lot of “OG” characters got pretty short shrift - including Buzz Lightyear - whereas the new characters (including the Badass Bo-Peep) were largely quite dull and uninspired.  I liked the dummies, mind you.

I didn’t think the Key & Peele characters were funny.

A+

The Key/Kay and Peele characters were particular awful, the Chinese audience of 14 people or so loved them though. The story(Toy story)  needed new characters to exist, but it didnt need to exist. I only watched this really because I love Toy Story 1, any other Pixar thing I watch and leave feeling empty.

Re: Toy Story 4
« Reply #65 on: June 24, 2019, 01:19:26 AM »
Agreed on the Key & Peele characters. Awful, but people seem to love them. Then again what do people know?

This was okay, mid-tier Pixar and below the original three Toy Story films quite comfortably, I thought. I also don't know how to feel about the emotion of the ending - did it have to be such a downer? Compare it to the ending of Toy Story 3, which is brutal but makes perfect sense. I don't feel that this film had to do what it did; I don't feel that this story had to be told, or at least had to be told in this way, and for me it leaves the characters in a much sadder place than was really necessary. This is a fictional world of talking toys; I'm not sure such heavy real worldness needs to come into it. The first two stayed on the right side of the line as far as that goes, and the third threatened to creep over it but ultimately pulled it off. This though went way over the line for me. It felt tonally different to the first three: not as fun, not as vibrant or hopeful; but bleak more than anything.

neveragain

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Re: Toy Story 4
« Reply #66 on: June 24, 2019, 02:42:33 PM »
I went to see it while in London. £17.99 for a ticket and I fucking fell asleep. Not just near the end, not for a little bit in the middle (that happens to me in most films)... from Woody following Bonnie to kindergarten right to the credits.

10/10. Fucking London.

Endicott

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Re: Toy Story 4
« Reply #67 on: June 26, 2019, 10:30:03 PM »
Agreed on the Key & Peele characters. Awful, but people seem to love them. Then again what do people know?


I liked them. Other than that, completely agree with Thomas and Hobo. Would go as far as saying it is better than 3 and 2, which is saying something coz they were great.

Re: Toy Story 4
« Reply #68 on: July 16, 2019, 04:20:11 PM »
I did not like the triceratops saying "I have all the questions". Why would Pixar put a fucking tumblr catchphrase in a film.

thecuriousorange

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Re: Toy Story 4
« Reply #69 on: July 16, 2019, 04:23:36 PM »

Re: Toy Story 4
« Reply #70 on: July 16, 2019, 10:34:34 PM »
I saw this, kind of enjoyed it, im not sure. Every time I go to the cinema i feel an intense anxiety that i've wasted my time and money and I usually sit there uncomfortably untill the experience is over.

Trying to take this into account, its decent, Pixar can make a film. But like alot of things these days, feels more like a comic book subplot to a cinematic release. TS3 really ended cathartically in respect to growing up next to a franchise. I already had closure, but I didn't mind watching these dudes again.

Re: Toy Story 4
« Reply #71 on: July 16, 2019, 10:52:56 PM »
I did not like the triceratops saying "I have all the questions". Why would Pixar put a fucking tumblr catchphrase in a film.

That jumped out at me too, among another few bits.  Also, because of how long animation takes, when they try and include "contemporary" shit like this in them it almost inevitably feels dated as soon as it's released.

Re: Toy Story 4
« Reply #72 on: July 16, 2019, 10:58:58 PM »
That jumped out at me too, among another few bits.  Also, because of how long animation takes, when they try and include "contemporary" shit like this in them it almost inevitably feels dated as soon as it's released.

Because if you're not in the small percentage of people that caught the reference, it's just a line

Sin Agog

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Re: Toy Story 4
« Reply #73 on: July 16, 2019, 11:04:08 PM »
This is a fictional world of talking toys; I'm not sure such heavy real worldness needs to come into it.

“Real isn't how you are made,' said the Skin Horse. 'It's a thing that happens to you. When a child loves you for a long, long time, not just to play with, but REALLY loves you, then you become Real.'

'Does it hurt?' asked the Rabbit.

'Sometimes,' said the Skin Horse, for he was always truthful. 'When you are Real you don't mind being hurt.'

'Does it happen all at once, like being wound up,' he asked, 'or bit by bit?'

'It doesn't happen all at once,' said the Skin Horse. 'You become. It takes a long time. That's why it doesn't happen often to people who break easily, or have sharp edges, or who have to be carefully kept. Generally, by the time you are Real, most of your hair has been loved off, and your eyes drop out and you get loose in the joints and very shabby. But these things don't matter at all, because once you are Real you can't be ugly, except to people who don't understand.”

Re: Toy Story 4
« Reply #74 on: July 17, 2019, 03:17:24 AM »
Toy Story 3 had a fairytale ending, bittersweet but mostly sweet. We could leave that story where it is, Woody forever making children happy, but instead Toy Story 4 retires him. It's unnecessary. Pixar increasingly take emotional short cuts like this, particularly from Inside Out onwards. They used to make intelligent films for kids; now they make films for tweets of crying emojis.

Re: Toy Story 4
« Reply #75 on: July 17, 2019, 04:10:29 AM »
A mate reminded me that in Toy Story 1 the toys come to life to frighten Syd. That seems insane now. If they'd done it in TS4 I'd say they'd jumped the shark.

It's actually a dynamic I found quite interesting in TS4 - it's the ultimate taboo for the toys to be seen as sentient, to the point where everyone in a battle will just ragdoll the minute someone walks into the room.

BritishHobo

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Re: Toy Story 4
« Reply #76 on: July 17, 2019, 09:07:57 PM »
Toy Story 3 had a fairytale ending, bittersweet but mostly sweet. We could leave that story where it is, Woody forever making children happy, but instead Toy Story 4 retires him. It's unnecessary. Pixar increasingly take emotional short cuts like this, particularly from Inside Out onwards. They used to make intelligent films for kids; now they make films for tweets of crying emojis.

Do you think? I felt like it was the most emotionally intelligent thing they've done in the franchise. I've seen it described as a epilogue, possibly on here, and that works to me. Toy Story 3 is incredible, and does work perfectly as an ending, but I thought it was pretty bold to decide to make one more film that's about the main toy choosing to take some agency as a living individual, and pursue his own happiness. To me, the opening scene in the rain, and the later scene which echoes it, are the heaviest scenes I've seen in any Pixar film, visually and emotionally. There was a weight to the decision-making the characters faced in those moments that properly knocked me in how enormous they were.

I will agree with people that, as much as I love them and loved their performances, the Key and Peele toys felt a bit tacked on. But I can forgive that when they're good fun, and everything else in the film works so well.

BritishHobo

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Re: Toy Story 4
« Reply #77 on: July 17, 2019, 09:15:07 PM »
Don't have time this evening to write a post as long as Hobo's eloquent review, but I felt I ought to pitch into the thread and say that - despite my initial scepticism, regarding 1-3 as a perfect finished trilogy - I also really enjoyed Toy Story 4.

3 was a moving conclusion for Andy's childhood. 4 provides a touching conclusion to Woody's personal journey. As a toy fixated with Andy for three outings, it does make story sense that Woody would continue to bang on about how things were done in the Andy Days, and his own role as 'the favourite toy', before coming to terms with life beyond that. I though the film had a surprising amount of things to say.

I was even happy with the way all the continued issues of magical toy sentience were handled, as discussed in this great thread. Loved Forky's final line. 'I... don't know.'


For the second time in this franchise (horrid word), I think that's a fine place to leave it. Looked absolutely incredible, too.

Saw a Forky toy for sale the other day. About a foot tall, with sounds and moving parts. Amazingly point-missing toy.

All great points - it just works so well for Woody's character, in that Toy Story sequel way, where you think 'of course this is something that needs dealing with'. Unlike most franchises which contrive a new character flaw or mad happenstance, each one of these feels so natural in what it does with the world and the characters, it all makes perfect sense. Of course Woody would struggle to be 'just another toy', after Andy. It seems so obvious, they do it so well.

Although, as you say, surely they have to leave it there now. Three times is a hell of a record - Toy Story 5 would surely be pushing their luck.

Re: Toy Story 4
« Reply #78 on: July 21, 2019, 12:07:27 PM »
Considering the 4 films are spread across 24 years, the sustained quality is quite amazing. Not the best in the series, but far better than it should be. What other film series has managed this? Go on admit it, the later Star Wars films are bollocks.

Old Nehamkin

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Re: Toy Story 4
« Reply #79 on: July 21, 2019, 12:09:34 PM »
Considering the 4 films are spread across 24 years, the sustained quality is quite amazing. Not the best in the series, but far better than it should be. What other film series has managed this? Go on admit it, the later Star Wars films are bollocks.

Mad Max.

samadriel

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Re: Toy Story 4
« Reply #80 on: July 21, 2019, 12:40:36 PM »
Yeah, but Thunderdome really sucks.

St_Eddie

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Re: Toy Story 4
« Reply #81 on: July 21, 2019, 12:53:16 PM »
Yeah, but Thunderdome really sucks.

Eh... the second half of Beyond Thunderdome sucks, to be more precise.

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Re: Toy Story 4
« Reply #82 on: July 31, 2019, 08:00:09 PM »
Toy Story 3 had a fairytale ending, bittersweet but mostly sweet. We could leave that story where it is, Woody forever making children happy, but instead Toy Story 4 retires him. It's unnecessary. Pixar increasingly take emotional short cuts like this, particularly from Inside Out onwards. They used to make intelligent films for kids; now they make films for tweets of crying emojis.

He isn’t exactly retired; he’s just no longer attached to a particular child because he wasn’t needed in that capacity anymore.  So now he works to make sure other toys have children - it’s a new stage of his life rather than the end of it.

Not sure how this equates to making films for tweets of crying emojis by the way.

Re: Toy Story 4
« Reply #83 on: August 01, 2019, 01:04:25 AM »
I mean that they are cynically engineered to get to bits which everyone will cry at because they know it's an easy reaction and gives the illusion of depth, since around the time they opened Up with a miscarriage montage. I can well imagine them sitting around at the start of the writing process for Toy Story 4 and thinking "we need to end it with Woody splitting up from Buzz somehow. Any ideas?"

I'm still irked by them killing off the imagination character in Inside Out, in a fairly brutal way, when they could easily have kept him alive and maintained the message of the film. I even think it would have made the message more realistic to how people truly develop into healthy minded adults, but it seems like they went in that direction for maximum emotional distress.

Go back to Toy Story 1 & 2, A Bug's Life, Monster's Inc, Finding Nemo and The Incredibles and they don't try anywhere near as hard to be tearjerkers. I find that I come out of many of the newer films feeling miserable.

The more I thought about Toy Story 4 afterwards, the lazier I found it. There are two sets of weak running gags that are essentially identical (the bears wanting to attack the old woman; that other one wanting to get the bloke arrested); developments like Buzz getting the key in the antique store are played as ironic meta humour to disguise a lack of ideas; the villain really doesn't do much; the potential of the antique store isn't realised. It all feels so small and sloppy, like a video sequel.

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Re: Toy Story 4
« Reply #84 on: August 01, 2019, 05:20:17 PM »
Do you also hate the furnace scene in Toy Story 3?

Re: Toy Story 4
« Reply #85 on: August 01, 2019, 07:32:43 PM »
It comes very close to crossing that line, and I think the grimness of it is milked for all its worth in a fairly sadistic way, but no, I don't think I hate it - nothing really changes as a result of it, none of the characters are harmed.

It is though a good example of what I mean, a scene which would have been unthinkable in the earlier Pixar films just from a tonal standpoint, albeit one that works in that case, and I do think you can sense the creators getting off on how edgy they could push that scene.

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Re: Toy Story 4
« Reply #86 on: August 02, 2019, 03:40:31 PM »
Quote
since around the time they opened Up with a miscarriage montage

That is a pretty flippant description, centred around one moment, in what adds up to a pretty lengthy opening sequence showing the main character's story so far. It also establishes just how much he loved his wife from when they first met as kids, her adventurous spirit which he later discovers how to uphold, a hell of a lot. It's pretty damn emotional, yes, but it is important to the whole tale as well.

Re: Toy Story 4
« Reply #87 on: August 04, 2019, 12:04:02 AM »
kids running about and shouting throughout the whole screening of this today. parents not even trying to stop them. ruined the movie and made me feel like an old fart for being angry.

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Re: Toy Story 4
« Reply #88 on: August 04, 2019, 07:00:11 AM »
I'm still irked by them killing off the imagination character in Inside Out, in a fairly brutal way, when they could easily have kept him alive and maintained the message of the film. I even think it would have made the message more realistic to how people truly develop into healthy minded adults, but it seems like they went in that direction for maximum emotional distress.

There's a bit of irony in you arguing this since one of the main themes of Inside Out is about accepting sad things.

Re: Toy Story 4
« Reply #89 on: August 04, 2019, 11:00:22 AM »
That is a pretty flippant description, centred around one moment, in what adds up to a pretty lengthy opening sequence showing the main character's story so far. It also establishes just how much he loved his wife from when they first met as kids, her adventurous spirit which he later discovers how to uphold, a hell of a lot. It's pretty damn emotional, yes, but it is important to the whole tale as well.

I'm not criticising that moment; what I think is that they got hooked on the reaction they got for that scene and have tried to reach for moments like that ever since.

There's a bit of irony in you arguing this since one of the main themes of Inside Out is about accepting sad things.

That sad thing is primarily moving house, it's not death. The character who dies doesn't need to stay dead; in fact it could be shown to be accepted as you say but then kept "alive" by the memory of him. The idea is that people forget their childhood innocence and creativity, and that isn't true for most people anyway, not least the sort of people who go to work for Pixar. Like the Toy Story 3 scene I think there's a bit of sadism to that choice.

Incidentally, I think Coco might be their best film, and that's all about death, but in a tasteful way which isn't tonally jarring for a kids film, and without losing the meaning and emotion of it. It's a tearjerker but it comes organically.