"What might have been" in politics

[Fambo Number Mive]

Lookinng at everyone fawning over David Miliband on Twitter this morning, if he won the leadership election, would he have won the 2015 election? And if he had would he have been that different from Cameron?  I suppose he would have done more to combat climate change but to me he comes across as someone who would improve a couple of things but not have made many of the changes we need that Corbyn supports.

I can imagine David Miliband as being far more pro-war than Ed Miliband, and he'd probably have backed all of the Coalition's foreign policy.

[BlodwynPig]

Imagine Chukka Umunna as Prime Minister and this is essentially the same.

[Fambo Number Mive]

I think Chukka is even worse because he is part of this new one policy movement.

"Our party wants to do X. X is really important"

"Where do you stand on L, M, and P?"

"We'll release policies on L, M and P later. Let's talk about X"

"O affects a lot of people. Where do you stand on O?"

"That's old policies! We only formed six weeks ago! Let's talk about X, the most important thing in politics"

Who knows what a Umunna led government would do on anything that isn't Brexit.

[idunnosomename]

What if jermy crobbins was allowed to become pm. Hed blow us all sky high!!!!!

[Icehaven]

Ghost of John Smith floats into thread.

[Paul Calf]

I can't help but think that Britain would be a nicer place today if the England football team had not won the World Cup in 1966. So you see, it really is The Russians' fault.

(Get your dad to explain it)

[imitationleather]

I can't help but think that Britain would be a nicer place today if the England football team had not won the World Cup in 1966. So you see, it really is The Russians' fault.

(Get your dad to explain it)

My dad would have me shot for treason if I raised that sort of chat with him. And quite right too.

[Paul Calf]

Mine too. Fortunately, I know not to mention the words 'Russian linesman' to Germans of a certain age.

I did it once, but I think I got away with it.

[The Culture Bunker]

Someday, somebody might be able to explain how David Miliband would have won the 2015 election. I've never been able to see the appeal of the man at all.

Mine too. Fortunately, I know not to mention the words 'Russian linesman' to Germans of a certain age.

But he wasn't even Russian, ahhh...

Reminds me that somebody linked up that old "What if Banks had played?" alternative history, a chilling tale that includes Curly Watts being murdered by a mob.

[Paul Calf]

Oh yeah. I forgot he was Azerbaijani.

[Icehaven]

Someday, somebody might be able to explain how David Miliband would have won the 2015 election. I've never been able to see the appeal of the man at all.

For a politician he's attractive, so he'd have got my vote.

[Lisa Jesusandmarychain]

What if Screaming Lord Sutch had ever gotten elected?

[imitationleather]

Someday, somebody might be able to explain how David Miliband would have won the 2015 election. I've never been able to see the appeal of the man at all.

David Miliband v David Cameron would have been like the election in Futurama where the two nominees are clones of the same person.

[Buelligan]

I've always really disliked David Miliband and I'm glad he's dead.  There.  I've said it.

[Paul Calf]

For a politician he's attractive, so he'd have got my vote.

We're talking about the same person?

[gib]

I can't help but think that Britain would be a nicer place today if the England football team had not won the World Cup in 1966. So you see, it really is The Russians' fault.

(Get your dad to explain it)

That reminds me. Seen this?

... or the Spanish in Cuba. Or many other examples dating back.

The Victorian Brits, as with many other things, named it.

EDIT - there's a lot more bubbling under the "they'll have me killed" line. It reminds me a bit of this alternate history.

[finnquark]

What might have happened if Clynes hadn't been replaced by Macdonald in 1922? The original sin.

[Icehaven]

We're talking about the same person?

I did say 'for a politician.' Showbiz for ugly people and all that. 

[Petey Pate]

Arch Blairite John McTernan once said that Remain would have won the EU referendum if David Cameron's attempt to intervene in Syria wasn't blocked by Parliament in 2013.

Yes, I struggle to understand the logic behind it too.

[idunnosomename]

Andrew Bonar Law didn't die. think of the places that might have been called after him. they might have called milton keynes BONARTOWN

[Paul Calf]

That reminds me. Seen this?

Got to have Banksy in goal.

[Sebastian Cobb]

If the USSR hadn't fucked up their implementation of Communism we'd be living in Star Trek now.

[kngen]

Ghost of John Smith floats into thread.

Have often wondered what difference he would have made. Probably slightly more human than the dead-eyed war machine Blair, but is there much evidence to suggest that he wouldn't have embraced the 'modern' Labour Party, and all that came with it, to get elected? Hagiographies like this seem to suggest that he wouldn't have been as a divisive an influence as Blair, but this seems to be based on that he was nicer and funnier, rather than any actual political analysis.

[Fambo Number Mive]

Have often wondered what difference he would have made. Probably slightly more human than the dead-eyed war machine Blair, but is there much evidence to suggest that he wouldn't have embraced the 'modern' Labour Party, and all that came with it, to get elected? Hagiographies like this seem to suggest that he wouldn't have been as a divisive an influence as Blair, but this seems to be based on that he was nicer and funnier, rather than any actual political analysis.

I tend to agree, kngen. He simply wasn't leader long enough to make enough enemies. A  relatively decent guy I'm sure, but probably a Callaghan for the nineties. May not have gone into Iraq but probably would have gone into Afghanistan. Probably would have gone ahead with PFI.

Wonder what Kinnock would have been like as Prime Minister.

[Icehaven]

Wonder what Kinnock would have been like as Prime Minister.

Kinnock was an answer on Mastermind the other day and the quizee got it wrong, as if they'd never heard of him. Felt quite bad for him (Kinnock). It was the final as well :(

[Armin Meiwes]

Not really an expert on pre Blair labour party so I might be talking bollocks but my understanding was always that it was Kinnock that kickstarted New Labour and Blair was the one that got the chance to actually implement it. And if he hadn't died then presumably Smith would have done instead.

[imitationleather]

Kinnock was an answer on Mastermind the other day and the quizee got it wrong, as if they'd never heard of him. Felt quite bad for him (Kinnock). It was the final as well :(

Worst thing is the guy's specialist subject was Labour party leaders!

[paruses]

I worked at the Foreign Office while he was foreign secretary and the consensus there was that he was a precious twat. But that's just the way he was with the people who were his underlings. Sorry this isn't very helpful to the discussion but I wanted to get it out there.

[Former]

Not really an expert on pre Blair labour party so I might be talking bollocks but my understanding was always that it was Kinnock that kickstarted New Labour and Blair was the one that got the chance to actually implement it. And if he hadn't died then presumably Smith would have done instead.

It was a two-stage thing really. Kinnock moved the party centrewards from the position it held under Michael Foot leadership and Blair moved it further on, towards, well, Blairism.

Had Smith not died, the needle would've remained roughly where Kinnock put it on the compass under his leadership - and maybe drifted back slightly leftwards after a while.

There is an argument that Smith provided a necessary 'intermission' to the proceedings - that it wouldn't have been possible for the party to shift directly from Footism to Blairism, but having a break of a couple of years allowed the Blair project to be realised so successfully.

[Mrs Wogans lemon drizzle]

Kinnock's Britain