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March 28, 2024, 11:39:19 PM

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Three thoughts about Pulp Fiction

Started by kalowski, June 21, 2019, 11:26:53 PM

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Dr Rock

Quote from: famethrowa on June 22, 2019, 12:33:13 AM
Watched it recently, and I remember back when I first saw it in the theatre I had a real tension about Bruce Willis the boxer, and whether he would get away with it or not. This time, however, I didn't care about him, he's just as much scum as the crims he's ripping off.

I forget what he did wrong?

BlodwynPig


Oh look another Bash a Popular thing thread. Whether you love his films or don't. Your Opinion is wrong.


Sebastian Cobb

It's alright
Not as good as Jackie Brown though
Not by a long shot

buzby

Quote from: beanheadmcginty on June 22, 2019, 12:30:32 PM
The thing that annoys me most about the Keitel advert is that they haven't stumped up for the proper music.
Or the proper car. In the film The Wolf drives a a 1992 Sebring Silver Honda/Acura NSX, a high-tech mid-engined supercar manufactured between 1990 and 2004.


In the Direct Line ads he drives a much cheaper and more conventional modern red Toyota GT86 sports car

St_Eddie

I don't like that popular movie what everyone else likes because I once saw a Scandinavian metaphysical study of life.  It was in black and white and it had subtitles and everything!  I creamed my fucking pants.

Have you had a sneaky peek at next weeks (spam) scedule Eddie.

Also Crippled Avengers is better than Pulp Fiction.

Icehaven

Quote from: Dr Rock on June 22, 2019, 08:37:57 PM
I forget what he did wrong?

He was a boxer and was supposed to throw a fight for some gangster but didn't, so had to leave town sharpish, but just before him and his irritatingly flaky girlfriend hit the road they realise the silly cow forgot Willis' Dad's watch, which means a lot to him so he goes back for it. Can't remember the intricate details but somehow the gangster ends up in the basement of a gun shop being raped by some rednecks and a gimp, and by some convoluted coincidence Bruce Willis ends up there too and manages to free the gangster, who in return lets him off for not throwing the fight but tells him to leave town anyway, shortly before going on to torture the rednecks to death (offscreen).
I think the gangster is Uma Thurman's character's husband too but I might have misremembered that.

Dr Rock

That's my recollection, so what did he do what was wrong? I thought I'd forgot something.

They end up in the basement because by rather a large coincidence Butch sees him crossing the street and he clocks him so they have a fight, which leads them to the shop. He's possibly a initially bit rude to the guy in the shop who turns out to be a rapist.

famethrowa

Quote from: Dr Rock on June 23, 2019, 08:05:38 AM
That's my recollection, so what did he do what was wrong? I thought I'd forgot something.


He killed the other boxer in the ring. That's kinda against the rules

Dr Rock

Not if it's an accident, there's nothing to suggest he tried to do anything apart from win the fight rather than go along with it being rigged, right? He finds out the other boxer dies while he's in the cab, seems like that wasn't the intention. He bets on himself to win knowing he's not going to lose the fight as directed. He doesn't seem to give a shit that he killed someone I suppose.

Going back to save Marcellus is a big risk, done because even though the guy is a dangerous enemy, the right thing to do is save him.

a duncandisorderly

Quote from: Dr Rock on June 23, 2019, 08:48:31 AM
Not if it's an accident, there's nothing to suggest he tried to do anything apart from win the fight rather than go along with it being rigged, right? He finds out the other boxer dies while he's in the cab, seems like that wasn't the intention. He bets on himself to win knowing he's not going to lose the fight as directed. He doesn't seem to give a shit that he killed someone I suppose.

Going back to save Marcellus is a big risk, done because even though the guy is a dangerous enemy, the right thing to do is save him.

bruce willis is the only decent human being in the whole flick, though I've some sympathy for tim roth's character.


Dr Rock

Quote from: a duncandisorderly on June 23, 2019, 09:11:15 AM
bruce willis is the only decent human being in the whole flick, though I've some sympathy for tim roth's character.

And his annoying gf, and possibly his flashback dad.

The scene in the cab, which I just rewatched, tells the audience he's no great hero, he doesn't care that he killed the guy (the sexy taxi driver really pushes him on what it feels like to kill a man, and at first he says 'sorry about that Floyd' then says he doesn't care). Later choosing not to just flee but go back and save his enemy is an audience pleasing moment, and it wouldn't have worked if Butch had been written as any kind of heroic character up to that point. But crucially he does take that big risk because his conscience won't let him leave Marcellus to his fate.

And it's good that Samuel Jackson's character decides to try to change for the better, a decision that may have saved his life compared to John Travolta getting shot on the shitter. The movie lets both redeemed characters live.

Oh and Travolta may as well have banged Uma Thurman. That's my fresh realisation.


LanceUppercut

Quote from: Dr Rock on June 23, 2019, 08:05:38 AM
That's my recollection, so what did he do what was wrong? I thought I'd forgot something.

They end up in the basement because by rather a large coincidence Butch sees him crossing the street and he clocks him so they have a fight, which leads them to the shop. He's possibly a initially bit rude to the guy in the shop who turns out to be a rapist.

I'm sure I read somewhere that Marcellus was at Butches flat waiting for him but went out for food for himself and Vincent, probably saving Butches life. So in some kind of Karma way it gets reciprocated.

Icehaven

Quote from: Dr Rock on June 23, 2019, 09:28:04 AM
Later choosing not to just flee but go back and save his enemy is an audience pleasing moment, and it wouldn't have worked if Butch had been written as any kind of heroic character up to that point. But crucially he does take that big risk because his conscience won't let him leave Marcellus to his fate.

See I don't interpret him going back to save Marcellus as an act of conscience at all, I see it as Willis seeing an opportunity to get himself out of Marcellus' bad books so he doesn't have to spend the rest of his life looking over his shoulder. I've not read around the film enough to know if that's really supposed to be the case but I've seen it a few times and always have the same thought. Could be both reasons I guess, although apart from anything else Marcellus is a violent gangster, is it really that heroic to save him?

QDRPHNC

Quote from: Dr Rock on June 23, 2019, 08:05:38 AM
That's my recollection, so what did he do what was wrong? I thought I'd forgot something.

They end up in the basement because by rather a large coincidence Butch sees him crossing the street and he clocks him so they have a fight, which leads them to the shop. He's possibly a initially bit rude to the guy in the shop who turns out to be a rapist.

It's not a coincidence at all - Marcellus was at Butch's apartment with Travolta's character and was returning with coffees when Butch runs into him.

Quote from: icehaven on June 23, 2019, 11:42:20 AM
See I don't interpret him going back to save Marcellus as an act of conscience at all, I see it as Willis seeing an opportunity to get himself out of Marcellus' bad books so he doesn't have to spend the rest of his life looking over his shoulder. I've not read around the film enough to know if that's really supposed to be the case but I've seen it a few times and always have the same thought. Could be both though really I guess

But most likely those guys were going to torture and kill him, so there really is no other reason for Butch to go back.

Icehaven

Quote from: QDRPHNC on June 23, 2019, 11:47:05 AM
But most likely those guys were going to torture and kill him, so there really is no other reason for Butch to go back.

Maybe, but presumably even if Marcellus was gone his people would still be after Willis, so at least by saving him he gets out of that trouble too.

Dr Rock

Quote from: QDRPHNC on June 23, 2019, 11:47:05 AM
It's not a coincidence at all - Marcellus was at Butch's apartment with Travolta's character and was returning with coffees when Butch runs into him.

Oh never twigged they were that near Butch's apartment at the time.

Also

https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/movie-news/get-the-gimp-breaking-down-pulp-fictions-most-notorious-scene-82595/
QuoteOn the street outside the pawnshop, Butch finds Zed's chopper: a motorcycle with the name "Grace" written on it. Butch's story of redemption echoes the transformation of Jules at the movie's end: he leaves the pawnshop riding Grace, and having achieved his own state of moral grace.

Has QT ever babbled that this is the case? Seems legit.

checkoutgirl

Quote from: famethrowa on June 23, 2019, 08:34:16 AM
He killed the other boxer in the ring. That's kinda against the rules

He killed the boxer, not intentionally but still. He machine gunned Travolta's character to death, self defence but still. He double crossed his boss by not throwing the fight, the honest thing to do but still. He maimed a guy using a sword, a would be rapist but still. He deliberately ran over his boss with his car, his boss is a gangster but still.

Add all that up and it's a bit of a rampage.

mothman

You're forgetting the significance of the watch. It was all about solidarity and loyalty to each other in captivity. There was no personal gain for Major Koons to look after Butch's father's watch all those years (in fact giving it to his captors might have made his captivity easier), he did it because they were comrades in captivity, brought together by unlikely, harrowing circumstances which formed a bond that transcended everything else. All for one, one for all, no man left behind. Marcellus was likely to do harm to Butch, but even then to leave him behind for his own safety would be to betray his father's memory.

mothman

As for killing the boxer, that was probably unavoidable given the circumstances of the fight. He was supposed to throw the match; the other fighter was presumably aware of this so wouldn't be in the best physical or psychological shape to win a hard-fought contest. But all the same Butch's only option (to win quickly before anyone realised he wasn't throwing the fight, and get out of there in the immediate post-bout confusion) was to put him down hard and fast, and as brutally as possible. So he knew causing real harm to his opponent - somebody who was after all quite happy to win a match by cheating, therefore betraying the very principles of the sport - was an option. That's why news of his death gives him only momentary pause.

My impression however was that pulling the trigger on Vincent's MAC-10 was almost involuntary, a spasm caused by the toaster popping. MAC-10s (illegally) converted to full auto famously have a very high rate of fire: a simple twitch of the trigger would unload almost the whole magazine. I don't think he takes the safety catch off though, which thus seems odd - would a professional like Vincent really leave a gun like that carelessly lying around, ready to rock & roll? Actually, it's quite consistent with what we've seen of his character - he leaves his drugs where somebody could find them; and of course there's shooting Marvin in the head in the car because again his safety wasn't on and they go over a bump in the road.

The only part of that scene I'm never sure about is quite how impassive Butch is having killed him. I suppose by picking up the gun and pointing it at the door before it opens, he was prepared to kill again so wasn't discombobulated by the act, however involuntary it ultimately was.

greenman

Wasn't the point that it was Marcellus's gun? he'd gone to get something to eat whilst Vincent was in the toilet and had to leave it behind.

Dr Rock

Seems stupid for either of them to have left the apartment and wandered down the street to get coffee if they are seriously expecting Butch to return. We see Vince is quite careless but Marcellus should maybe know better. Bring a packed lunch.

greenman

The point to me seems to be that Vincent gets his warning with a piece of very good luck earlier in the film with the guy with the "hand canon" missing him at point blank range then gets punished for not acting on it as Jules does by a piece of bad luck with Butch happening to turn up at exactly the wrong moment.

Dr Rock

There's probably a running motif about people's desire for coffee and donuts being their downfall. Vince and Jules start off talking about McDonalds... er that doesn't fit. But they nearly get robbed because they go to a diner... ok, something about the blueberry pancakes then.

greenman

As the less cool character Vicent had to be the one killed off even if he wasn't wearing a jumper.

a duncandisorderly

travolta & toilets seems to be a theme too.