Films That Used To Be Crap But Aren't Any More

[peanutbutter]

Ishtar is a big one surely? Both the combo of it being nowhere near as bad as the mauling it received implied and Elaine May's obsessiveness have turned it into one that definitely seems to attract a lot of defenders.

Sorceror at some point in the last decade switched from being a mental thing that killed New Hollywood to being a mental thing that's arguably held in higher regard than the film it was a remake of (the Wages of Fear)


Starship Troopers and Showgirls, although I find it hard to buy that people didn't pick up on the intentional comedic tones of either at the time.

[Piggyoioi]

The creature design was basically remove fur and add an extra set of legs to terrestrial animals plus then add a lot of cheesey bioluminescence to everything in sight.

The Marvel films aren't really attempting anything even vaguely realistic but I don't hold that to be a standard of their design being visually interesting or not.

I guess, but I think their the reason some animals have extra legs is due to the gravitational force on Pandora ( or something, I can't remember, either way, extra limbs might be an obvious choice but fuck does it look cool). Personally I think it's perfectly fine to spin on already existing animals and giving them a sci fi spin, associations are a good thing, riffing on our innate associations to animals help enforce a feeling from the audience, quickly. Which creature in particular did you think was lazy? (if you can remember). Im not saying the film couldn't of been wierder and more alien and just smarter in general, but in terms of design i gotta give the artists and james cameron credit.

Regarding the marvel films, my critique wasn't again them being realistic, i dont care how comic booky they are - as long as the actors dont look like chumps anything goes imo, i just found it not to be my taste generally, theres so many films so im talking broadly across the MCU - there's alot to love.

[St_Eddie]

Starship Troopers and Showgirls, although I find it hard to buy that people didn't pick up on the intentional comedic tones of either at the time.

Oh, believe me, there's plenty of people, to this day, who take Starship Troopers at face value and don't pick up upon the satirical overtones at all.  Back upon the film's initial release, there were many more people, the world over, who thought that the humans were the "good guys" and the aliens were the "bad guys", oblivious to the intrinsic and biting parody of propaganda which embodies the film's core message.

These people exist and they're called the general going audience.  The satire of Starship Troopers flies right over the head of your avenge cinema goer.  For most the most part, people perceive it as nothing more than a simple tale of heroic humans, triumphing over stupid ugly space bugs.

[greenman]

He also underestimated that a lot of Americans do shag in the pool thrashing around like a dying dolphin.

[Shaky]

I spaff all over my knickers every time I see this spacecraft.

It does have a brilliant set of tits, to be fair.

[Shaky]

I remember at the time I thought they'd crammed far too many characters and plotlines into it. I rewatched it again recently and it doesn't seem so crammed what with how many characters they stuff into recent MCU films. Mickey Rourke's character is a bit underserved though. He has such a big build up and ends up pissing about building robots in the background for most of the film.

Same with Civil War which I rewatched and just about gets away with balancing all the characters. The trip to New York to suddenly introduce Spidey midway into the film is still a bit iffy.

Yeah, there was an expectation that Rourke would be a major presence in IM2 but I don't mind that he's a bit of a broken old man who fades into the background.The film has some great, in-character banter and the looser (arguably flabby) vibe works in it's favour as a follow-up. Kind of a Temple of Doom to the first one's Raiders.

I generally think CW has the best muti-character balance out of all the films. That airport fight is, for me, far and away the best kinetic sequence in the entire franchise. Everyone gets time to shine, the cast are all great and the action is much less of a CG slogfest and clear as fuck at all times. The Spidey intro works too because they know they don't have to go through the origin story again yet Holland absolutely nails the character from the get-go.

[pigamus]

Weekend at Bernie's II

[Blumf]

It does have a brilliant set of tits, to be fair.

Dude, those are it's balls!

[Sebastian Cobb]

Alien 3

[chveik]

Alien: Resurrection.

[lipsink]

I think Alien 3 and Alien: Resurrection probably seem better as time goes on and the worse and worse the Alien films get.

Terminator: Salvation will probably seem like an absolute fucking masterpiece of cinema after another few Terminator films.

[Sebastian Cobb]

As I was just saying in the John Carpenter thread, Escape from LA seems quite prescient given modern politics.

[Piggyoioi]

Quantum of Solace.

Actually a decent follow up to Casino Royale.

Bond's character actually moves on from the events of the previous film in a meaningful way, the relationship to the bond girl is purely platonic (they're both damaged) - and unlike the recent Sam Mendes schlock where the franchise regressed back into a non-sensical Brosnan outing but with better cinematography, it didnt have this wierd contrast between campy callbacks and the self serious tone of it all.

[Piggyoioi]

I think Alien 3 and Alien: Resurrection probably seem better as time goes on and the worse and worse the Alien films get.

I keep telling myself to check out Resurrection, i'm curious because it looks absolutely bonkers. Also, i've heard William Gibson's Alien 3 Script has been adapted into an audiobook with actors from Aliens - anyone checked it out?

[McChesney Duntz]

Ishtar is a big one surely? Both the combo of it being nowhere near as bad as the mauling it received implied and Elaine May's obsessiveness have turned it into one that definitely seems to attract a lot of defenders.

Sorcerer at some point in the last decade switched from being a mental thing that killed New Hollywood to being a mental thing that's arguably held in higher regard than the film it was a remake of (the Wages of Fear)

Both of these for me - Ishtar gets a little unwieldy in the back stretch but there's some genuinely great comedy in there, and, while I wouldn't say Sorcerer is better than The Wages of Fear necessarily, it's still pretty fucking great, with some of the most impressively tense setpieces (that bridge sequence - fuuuuuck) in modern film. Hell, if we're talking Friedkin here, I'll go to bat for Cruising as well...

[PlanktonSideburns]

Really hope this happens to the stallone version of judge dredd

That film would be awesome If it wasn't so shite

[Shaky]

Dude, those are it's balls!

If I stopped making that mistake my life would be both easier and much less interesting.

[SavageHedgehog]

Really hope this happens to the stallone version of judge dredd

That film would be awesome If it wasn't so shite

Unpopular opinion but I think the two Dredd films compliment each other quite well. The 2012 film is far better, but while the 1995 film is like the version Griffin Mill would have made it does give you some of the scope of Mega City One that isn't in the 2012 film, and even a smidgen of the satire/humour.

In general I think a lot of the lesser 90s comic book films are, if not better, at least more interesting than they were at the time because there's some interest in seeing an approach so different from the current MCU model of adaptation.

[magval]

In general I think a lot of the lesser 90s comic book films are, if not better, at least more interesting than they were at the time because there's some interest in seeing an approach so different from the current MCU model of adaptation.

I think that Batman Forever is a lot better than it gets lazily dimissed for. It's also unfairly lumped in with its sequel because they look similar, but Forever at least had a go at properly tackling Batman's guilt in a way that Batman Begins gets all the credit for pioneering.

I also adore it aesthetically, though - the design and sound of it really appeal to me, and I enjoy the madcap antics of the villains tearing up the screen. Love Chris O'Donnell in it, love Nicole Kidman in it. It's class.

I wonder now that Marvel has pushed comic-book film-making back in the 'light' direction (after Warners tried to insist such characters could only be 'dark' for so long), will Batman Forever enjoy a reappraisal. Probably much easier to make another joke about sculpted rubber nipples, to be fair.

[a duncandisorderly]

I think Alien 3 and Alien: Resurrection probably seem better as time goes on and the worse and worse the Alien films get.

Terminator: Salvation will probably seem like an absolute fucking masterpiece of cinema after another few Terminator films.

a year or so ago, I watched all four alien movies back to back (they were being QCd at work; the spanish version of discovery plays lots of movies these days), & because they were coming off masters, there was no compression on the audio. we had them up as loud as we could stand on our big speakers, & there are parts where you can hear a pin drop. I think the third & fourth ones definitely stand on their own, & are way better than perhaps people remember. the cameron effort is a great action pic, but really adds little to the franchise arc, & hasn't aged well. you'll be acquainted from past posts (or perhaps not) with my opinions on scott, & especially 'blade runner', but he has a way despite his flaws of turning out flicks that are regarded as 'classics' after a few years. had, perhaps, is more accurate.
but mentally I now rank the "quadrilogy" 1,4,3,2.

[a duncandisorderly]

I spaff all over my knickers every time I see this spacecraft.

yeah, a bit more of this, a proper credit for roger dean (& others), & a bit less dances-with-smurfs, & I might've liked "avatar". but it lacks all of the beneath-the-surface stuff that makes "starship troopers" by far the better movie.

[chveik]

but mentally I now rank the "quadrilogy" 1,4,3,2.

that is indeed the correct order

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Really hope this happens to the stallone version of judge dredd

That film would be awesome If it wasn't so shite

Speaking of Stallone, I recently watched the much maligned Rambo III and it's a pretty solid, entertaining action film. Yes, the politics are dodgy as all fuck, but it's a Rambo sequel so that's to be expected. If anything, it's slightly less offensive than the truly horrible AMERICA FUCK YEAH First Blood Part II and the pornograpically violent Rambo IV/John Rambo/Rambo.

And no, it doesn't actually end with a dedication to "the brave Mujahideen fighters". The dedication always read "to the gallant people of Afghanistan." Not that that makes it a better film, of course, but it's worth pointing out.

[St_Eddie]

that is indeed the correct order

Only if you're a mentalist.

[Dex Sawash]

1,3,4,                    2

[batwings]

1,2,   3,       4

[Blumf]

1,3,2...                                                                                      ...4...

[Blumf]

                                                                         ...Prometheus

[Avril Lavigne]

I quite like the 1981 Dan Aykroyd & John Belushi vehicle Neighbors but on first viewing I had no idea what to make of it.  It had a really troubled production & it shows.  Belushi's drug problems were getting in the way, Aykroyd & Belushi bizarrely decided to switch roles just before filming started which is why their characters don't really suit them, they both hated the director and tried to get him kicked off the project, Aykroyd made various changes to the script despite not being a writer on the movie, a bespoke soundtrack by the punk band Fear was recorded then completely scrapped and replaced...

As you can imagine, the movie's a mess.  But somehow it works for me as a dark comedy, like a kind of bastard older cousin to The 'Burbs.  It has a vaguely fever-dream-like quality to it and sometimes I have to look it up online to make sure I didn't just imagine it existed.

[zomgmouse]

I quite like the 1981 Dan Aykroyd & John Belushi vehicle Neighbors but on first viewing I had no idea what to make of it.  It had a really troubled production & it shows.  Belushi's drug problems were getting in the way, Aykroyd & Belushi bizarrely decided to switch roles just before filming started which is why their characters don't really suit them, they both hated the director and tried to get him kicked off the project, Aykroyd made various changes to the script despite not being a writer on the movie, a bespoke soundtrack by the punk band Fear was recorded then completely scrapped and replaced...

As you can imagine, the movie's a mess.  But somehow it works for me as a dark comedy, like a kind of bastard older cousin to The 'Burbs.  It has a vaguely fever-dream-like quality to it and sometimes I have to look it up online to make sure I didn't just imagine it existed.

I haven't seen the film but I recently read Bob Woodward's biography of Belushi and it sounds like that production was absolutely fucking cursed and hellish. Still worth watching as a curio though I imagine...