Films That Used To Be Crap But Aren't Any More

[Avril Lavigne]

I haven't seen the film but I recently read Bob Woodward's biography of Belushi and it sounds like that production was absolutely fucking cursed and hellish. Still worth watching as a curio though I imagine...

As a comedy it's pretty much a failure, but taken as a sort of psychological horror movie with a slightly David Lynch absurdist vibe, it's actually quite entertaining.

[Dex Sawash]

Quantum of Solace.

Actually a decent follow up to Casino Royale.

Bond's character actually moves on from the events of the previous film in a meaningful way, the relationship to the bond girl is purely platonic (they're both damaged) - and unlike the recent Sam Mendes schlock where the franchise regressed back into a non-sensical Brosnan outing but with better cinematography, it didnt have this wierd contrast between campy callbacks and the self serious tone of it all.

QoS doesn't have a particularly ridiculous villain scheme. Opening chase is very good and has zero explosions. Depiction of non-western natives is not cartoony. Probably my fav Craig Bond.

[McChesney Duntz]

Aykroyd & Belushi bizarrely decided to switch roles just before filming started which is why their characters don't really suit them

See, everybody seems to think this, including all the people who opined on it in the Belushi oral biography (which exists largely as a decades-later riposte to Wired), and I think they're insane - Aykroyd in particular was born to play that almost otherworldly weirdo he portrays, and Belushi had a put-upon straight-man strain that rarely got much exercise, but could have developed into something if he'd stuck around a while longer (I just watched Continental Divide from earlier the same year - not quite the modern Spencer Tracy they tried making him over into there, but some definite potential). Yes, the movie's a goddamned mess (with, in addition to the issues listed above, perhaps the most distractingly "wacky" musical score in cinema history), but casting's the least of its problems.

[McChesney Duntz]

As a comedy it's pretty much a failure, but taken as a sort of psychological horror movie with a slightly David Lynch absurdist vibe, it's actually quite entertaining.

Agreed.

[kalowski]

I think that Batman Forever is a lot better than it gets lazily dimissed for. It's also unfairly lumped in with its sequel because they look similar, but Forever at least had a go at properly tackling Batman's guilt in a way that Batman Begins gets all the credit for pioneering.

I also adore it aesthetically, though - the design and sound of it really appeal to me, and I enjoy the madcap antics of the villains tearing up the screen. Love Chris O'Donnell in it, love Nicole Kidman in it. It's class.

Nay, nay and thrice nay...

[Avril Lavigne]

See, everybody seems to think this, including all the people who opined on it in the Belushi oral biography (which exists largely as a decades-later riposte to Wired), and I think they're insane - Aykroyd in particular was born to play that almost otherworldly weirdo he portrays, and Belushi had a put-upon straight-man strain that rarely got much exercise, but could have developed into something if he'd stuck around a while longer (I just watched Continental Divide from earlier the same year - not quite the modern Spencer Tracy they tried making him over into there, but some definite potential). Yes, the movie's a goddamned mess (with, in addition to the issues listed above, perhaps the most distractingly "wacky" musical score in cinema history), but casting's the least of its problems.

Yeah, that's a fair point.  I think it's probably Aykroyd's weird decision to be blond haired & blue eyed that makes the character seem a bit distractingly odd, particularly the unnecessary bright blue contacts.  If he'd looked more like his normal self & played the role as a kind of precursor to his excellent turn as John Candy's arrogant brother-in-law in The Great Outdoors it would have been less jarring.  Still, it all adds to the nightmare quality of the movie so I'm cool with it.

[Phoenix Lazarus]

I remember Neighbors.  The development of a lot of it seemed mixed-up.  For instance, when Belushi's character had gone out then fallen in the bog, then is peering through the window from outside, you expect they're setting up Ackroyd to see him and be scared at what looks like some sort of grotesque monster-but then Belushi dodges out of sight when Ackroyd turns his way.

[McChesney Duntz]

I think it's probably Aykroyd's weird decision to be blond haired & blue eyed that makes the character seem a bit distractingly odd, particularly the unnecessary bright blue contacts.

There's a whole Aryan/Nazi subtext in there that I only noticed the last couple of times I watched it that seems to come out of nowhere and go straight back there - certainly not present in Thomas Berger's novel (which I highly recommend - all the best aspects of the film's suburban-Kafka nightmarishness come straight from there), and if there's some kind of subliminal allegory intended, it's pretty much lost completely. It's a weird fucking beast, no questioning that. Yet I love the monster all the same (for sentimental reasons as much as anything else - as a 12-year-old comedy nerd, Belushi's death was my JFK assassination).

[SavageHedgehog]

I really like it too (much more than Animal House, hot take fans). Avildsen probably didn't know dick about comedy, Bill Conti's score is sub-Filmation cartoon at best, but I still think it's funny and apealingly odd. The phrase "small spaghetti and wine dealership" pops into my head on occassion.

[McChesney Duntz]

The phrase "small spaghetti and wine dealership" pops into my head on occassion.

That slight lisp Belushi had really makes the whole bit about said dealership being "across from the Cinema Cineplex right next to the Singer Sewing Center" quite memorable as well.

[Piggyoioi]

QoS doesn't have a particularly ridiculous villain scheme. Opening chase is very good and has zero explosions. Depiction of non-western natives is not cartoony. Probably my fav Craig Bond.

I love the opening to that movie, but it quickly derails into assistant director/advertising territory at around 1 minute 40.

https://youtu.be/yfYC_CBNtiM

"The ASTON MARTIN is being chased by a ALFA RAMEO"

"WHAT?"

"A BEATIUFAL SPORTS CAR IS BEING CHASED BY AN EQUALLY RESPECTABLE CAR THAT CAN CATCH UP TO JAMES BOND"

"CUT"

[Dr Rock]

Batman Forever is worse than Batman and Robin.

[Avril Lavigne]

I remember Neighbors.  The development of a lot of it seemed mixed-up.  For instance, when Belushi's character had gone out then fallen in the bog, then is peering through the window from outside, you expect they're setting up Ackroyd to see him and be scared at what looks like some sort of grotesque monster-but then Belushi dodges out of sight when Ackroyd turns his way.

I watched the trailer tonight and it has a very short clip of Aykroyd-as-bog-monster scaring Belushi-as-bog-monster in a classic 'pull the shower curtain aside' reveal. Seems like that was meant to be the payoff but it got cut.

[St_Eddie]

I watched the trailer tonight and it has a very short clip of Aykroyd-as-bog-monster scaring Belushi-as-bog-monster in a classic 'pull the shower curtain aside' reveal. Seems like that was meant to be the payoff but it got cut.

It got cut?!  That was one of the things which most appealed to me within the trailer!  Incidentally, the look of Aykroyd as a monster in the trailer reminded me of his monstrous appearance in Twilight Zone: The Movie...

[McChesney Duntz]

I watched the trailer tonight and it has a very short clip of Aykroyd-as-bog-monster scaring Belushi-as-bog-monster in a classic 'pull the shower curtain aside' reveal. Seems like that was meant to be the payoff but it got cut.

No, that's in there. At least it is in every version I've seen. It basically comes out of nowhere and isn't followed up on, so it could easily have been missed.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Belushi is really good in Neighbors, his subtle performance belies the Woodward-led notion that he was a coke-fuelled liability (which he probably was to an extent, but he never comes across badly in the films he appeared in), but Aykroyd is a phenomenal comic actor. Why is Dan Aykroyd not more celebrated?

[St_Eddie]

Why is Dan Aykroyd not more celebrated?

We were discussing the occasional downfall of Dan Aykroyd on the stream earlier.  The general consensus was that he's great when he has other talented people to collaborate with and to help him to reign in and refine his more bizarre ideas, but when he's given complete authority to do whatever takes his fancy, it tends to be his undoing.  I think that he gets a reasonable amount of celebration really.  He doesn't have the range to follow Bill Murray in terms of a more serious and subtle latter day career.  Aykroyd's wheelhouse is fast-talking enthusiasm and he does it well, but it's more of a young man's game.  I think that he just enjoys hawking his crystal skull vodka and cashing in on residual cheques these days, which is fair enough really.

[Phoenix Lazarus]

I watched the trailer tonight and it has a very short clip of Aykroyd-as-bog-monster scaring Belushi-as-bog-monster in a classic 'pull the shower curtain aside' reveal. Seems like that was meant to be the payoff but it got cut.

Found it on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCjc9IqkDR0

[Avril Lavigne]

No, that's in there. At least it is in every version I've seen. It basically comes out of nowhere and isn't followed up on, so it could easily have been missed.

Found it on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCjc9IqkDR0

Strange, I don't remember that part at all. I'm definitely gonna rewatch the whole thing sometime this week.

[zomgmouse]

I'm so sad we never got the Aykroyd/Belushi Louis Malle FBI scandal comedy they were planning before Belushi died. What a treat that would've been. Or not if Belushi was in the same state he was in. But let's imagine.

[St_Eddie]

Strange, I don't remember that part at all. I'm definitely gonna rewatch the whole thing sometime this week.

I don't suppose you'd be interested in saving your rewatch for one of your future streams, would you?  I'm rather keen to watch it myself.

[bgmnts]

Can a film be less crap based purely on its successors?

Because if so I think Terminator 3 is not too bad now.

[Egyptian Feast]

Can a film be less crap based purely on its successors?

Because if so I think Terminator 3 is not too bad now.

There's a pretty good fan edit that slims it down to about 80 minutes, losing most of the attempted comedy and other stuff that doesn't work. I think it's called Terminator 3: The Coming Storm. It's obviously not a patch on the Cameron films, but in this version at least isn't too shabby compared to what followed. I doubt 20 years and another batch of crap sequels will make Salvation look any better.

[St_Eddie]

There's a pretty good fan edit that slims it down to about 80 minutes, losing most of the attempted comedy and other stuff that doesn't work. I think it's called Terminator 3: The Coming Storm. It's obviously not a patch on the Cameron films, but in this version at least isn't too shabby compared to what followed.

I'd love to watch this fan edit, if anyone has a torrent link?

[Egyptian Feast]

I'd love to watch this fan edit, if anyone has a torrent link?

I can't remember where I found it, but I reckon I still have it somewhere. I'll get back to you in a bit...

[Mister Six]

QoS doesn't have a particularly ridiculous villain scheme. Opening chase is very good and has zero explosions. Depiction of non-western natives is not cartoony. Probably my fav Craig Bond.

I just can't get past the fucking editing. That car chase and - especially - the elaborate "hanging from ropes" setpiece are rendered all but incomprehensible by the decision to shoot everything from seemingly random angles and not hold a shot for longer than a fraction of a second.

[phantom_power]

QoS doesn't have a particularly ridiculous villain scheme. Opening chase is very good and has zero explosions. Depiction of non-western natives is not cartoony. Probably my fav Craig Bond.

Duh! It's James Bond you plum

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

We were discussing the occasional downfall of Dan Aykroyd on the stream earlier.  The general consensus was that he's great when he has other talented people to collaborate with and to help him to reign in and refine his more bizarre ideas, but when he's given complete authority to do whatever takes his fancy, it tends to be his undoing.  I think that he gets a reasonable amount of celebration really.  He doesn't have the range to follow Bill Murray in terms of a more serious and subtle latter day career.  Aykroyd's wheelhouse is fast-talking enthusiasm and he does it well, but it's more of a young man's game.  I think that he just enjoys hawking his crystal skull vodka and cashing in on residual cheques these days, which is fair enough really.

I've only just noticed your reply to my probing question, Eddie. I agree with everything you wrote, although I'd argue that Aykroyd in his heyday was one of the most versatile comic actors among that first SNL bunch. Fast-talking, jargon-heavy shtick is his calling card, but he parlayed that into a variety of different roles.

You're right, though, these days the multimillionaire Dan Aykroyd seems perfectly happy as a fairly busy supporting character actor who'd rather spend his twilight years hawking vodka, running a successful chain of homogenous blues bars and pointlessly chasing UFOs and ghosts. More power to his elbow, I say. Sounds like quite a nice life.

EDIT: What with this and my recent contribution to the What Non-New Films Have You Seen? thread, I fear I'm coming across as worryingly obsessed with Dan Aykroyd.

[St_Eddie]

What with this and my recent contribution to the What Non-New Films Have You Seen? thread, I fear I'm coming across as worryingly obsessed with Dan Aykroyd.

I wouldn't worry.  You're not the only one on the forum.  Avril Lavigne shares your love for all things Dan Aykroyd, so you're in good company.

[Endicott]

I haven't seen the film but I recently read Bob Woodward's biography of Belushi and it sounds like that production was absolutely fucking cursed and hellish. Still worth watching as a curio though I imagine...

I read a very interesting article about how shit that book is. Can't remember where I got the link, might have been on here actually.

https://slate.com/culture/2013/03/bob-woodward-and-gene-sperling-what-woodwards-john-belushi-book-can-tell-us-about-the-sequester-scandal.html