What don't you join Extinction Rebellion?

[Ray Travez]

When you look at any closed ecosystem, whether it's fish in a pond or bacteria in a petri dish... that population continues to rise until something disastrous happens. 

Yes, I think that will happen. The cancer spreads until it kills the host. I don't think that humanity is a cancer, just that unchecked proliferation is a feature of both.

So we'll go on.  Even if we try and do things to reduce global warming it won't be enough.  At some point there'll be a disastrous fail and those that remain will pick up the pieces and start again.

That's what I think too. For me it's not a question of if, it's when and how quickly things become unliveable. I'd imagine 'soon', and 'quickly', respectively. 

It's only guesswork though. Maybe I'm just a pessimist. Humanity will work together and sort everything out and we'll all live as one under a rainbow umbrella of harmony and inclusion.

new page death knell

[Danger Man]

The End is Nigh seems to have been a part of humanity for.....ever?

Maybe we've replaced a religious fear of extinction with a scientific one. Or not.  Don't know. Don't care.

[a duncandisorderly]

Yes.  There's just too many humans on the planet......At some point there'll be a disastrous fail and those that remain will pick up the pieces and start again.

tbh, that's the only thing that keeps me going.

[Cloud]

Black Mirror Series 6:

Extinction Rebellion fly a drone at an airport, which prevents a scientist attending a conference where he would have realised a cure for climate change :(

And isn't it ironic... Don't you think

[Fambo Number Mive]

XR have held a street party in the city centre outside Barclays which seems like a good way of getting attention and spreading awareness. Less impressed with their decision to close roads in five cities disrupting public transport. During the London blockades people were pointing out that if they are delayed due to XR road closures their boss penalised them and people were replying your boss is the problem, get a new job which ignores the reality of work for many people.

[Icehaven]

XR have held a street party in the city centre outside Barclays which seems like a good way of getting attention and spreading awareness. Less impressed with their decision to close roads in five cities disrupting public transport. During the London blockades people were pointing out that if they are delayed due to XR road closures their boss penalised them and people were replying your boss is the problem, get a new job which ignores the reality of work for many people.

They could at least have done it in Birmingham so I could maybe have got out of going somewhere I can't be arsed to go later. We're the second biggest city ffs, we must pollute more than Cardiff, Glasgow, Leeds and Bristol put together.

[biggytitbo]

I'm not saying I'm joining it, but I have one of their leaflets.


They are an apocalyptic death cult that likes Bob Marley. The best kind of apocalyptic death cult.

[Fambo Number Mive]

This kind of shit puts people off:

https://twitter.com/ElizabethPasco6/status/1150768541655805953

I bus or walk and I was pissed off because my main bus into the city to get the next one out was caught up in the traffic. Making me late for work. Further more I have residents who can't walk that far. So having to one from one side to another has impacted there day

EP:If you can't comprehend that a protest is meant to be inconvenient, and these people are fighting for the survival of the planet, and that's more important than the ease of your commute, then you need a reality check.

I walk to work. I had today off and needed to attend the breast clinic at Llandough hospital. I was on time. But the clinic was an hour late starting because the consultant was stuck because of the protest. Nursing mum's and women waiting for mammograms all impacted.

EP:But how's that hospital gonna work when the climate crisis impacts availability of medicine, food, and safe water. A delay is less important than the survival of the planet. Also, not really sure why Llandough was so affected, given the ease of getting there without a car.

This kind of attitude just alienates the general public. EP also ignores the comment about residents who aren't able to walk across Cardiff.

There seems to be a narrative spun by some supporters that any criticism of the XR actions means you support climate change.

Do you think the establishment cares if roads in Cardiff or Bristol are blocked? I'm fully behind what XR wants but I don't like the way their methods mainly inconvenience the working class. The Government are going ahead with the Heathrow third runway even after London was shut down for several weeks.

I found out you can fly from London to Manchester today. Takes just over two hours by train. How can such a short haul flight be justified.

[Zetetic]

Also, not really sure why Llandough was so affected, given the ease of getting there without a car.

It's not that easy, incidentally, particularly if the buses aren't running. And we had train problems this morning (not caused by XR).

(But I've no idea how you could get particularly stuck today getting to Llandough, doubly if you had the vaguest idea that there might be a protest in the city centre.)

[kittens]

saw all the lads today in castle park in bristol, all tents and stuff, little mini festival, givin it large against the climate and that. go on lads, i thought, give the environment one from me an all. turned off my podcast and could then hear they were blasting dub reggae from off of bristol bridge. the worst subgenre of the worst genre of music. if this is what we are fighting for then forget it. let's lay down in the road and let mother earth cook us into human chorizos. leave the world to the sparrows and the dog.

[canadagoose]

I found out you can fly from London to Manchester today. Takes just over two hours by train. How can such a short haul flight be justified.

Only two hours? Jeez, I thought it'd be longer than that. It's 4h 40m from Edinburgh to London. I think if we were abolishing domestic flights, we'd have to get better inter-city airport links first.

edit: Wasn't suggesting you'd said that, btw - was just a thought.

[biggytitbo]

They were playing reggae at the one in Leeds aswell. Don't tell me that's environmentally friendly.

[object-lesson]

It's well established that the the bass from a reggae sound system has an effect commensurate with a mild burst of fracking.

I tend to agree with that Gaia bloke about this that there's a very limited amount that can be done, and the emphasis should be on preparing ourselves for living as human a kind of life we can in the frazzled half-submerged world of the future. Not back to hunter-gathering though, that's a step too far in my book.

[Fambo Number Mive]

Only two hours? Jeez, I thought it'd be longer than that. It's 4h 40m from Edinburgh to London. I think if we were abolishing domestic flights, we'd have to get better inter-city airport links first.

edit: Wasn't suggesting you'd said that, btw - was just a thought.

I don't think we need to wait for improved train links to get rid of such shorthaul flights, but I don't think we can reduce flying and car journeys without a.massive improvement in the speed, cost and reliability of public transport. I've probably mentioned this here before but I'd like to see congestion charge zones in more city centres and more.light rail in cities and towns as well.

[Bazooka]

I don't think we need to wait for improved train links to get rid of such shorthaul flights, but I don't think we can reduce flying and car journeys without a.massive improvement in the speed, cost and reliability of public transport. I've probably mentioned this here before but I'd like to see congestion charge zones in more city centres and more.light rail in cities and towns as well.

It would be cheaper and easier, and far more realistic to flood the whole country and just blast around on jetskis like in Waterworld.

[machotrouts]

Don't know why the nihilists are only wishing for the human race to die, as if leaving all the other cunt species to go about their business is any better. Cats? Cunts. Skunks? Cunts. Praying mantises? Cunts. Extinguish all life on earth, extinguish all suffering. Cause quite a bit on the way, like, but needs must.

You could leave some of the herbivores but even a bunch of them are probably rapists. Rhinos seem very toxic masculinity if you ask me. Riddance.

[Huxleys Babkins]

This kind of shit puts people off:

https://twitter.com/ElizabethPasco6/status/1150768541655805953

This kind of attitude just alienates the general public. EP also ignores the comment about residents who aren't able to walk across Cardiff.

There seems to be a narrative spun by some supporters that any criticism of the XR actions means you support climate change.

Do you think the establishment cares if roads in Cardiff or Bristol are blocked? I'm fully behind what XR wants but I don't like the way their methods mainly inconvenience the working class. The Government are going ahead with the Heathrow third runway even after London was shut down for several weeks.

I found out you can fly from London to Manchester today. Takes just over two hours by train. How can such a short haul flight be justified.

Yeah, it's fucking stupid. It also suggests that there's a direct correlation between the chaos and saving the planet, which there absolutely isn't. Having your mammogram delayed or being late for work isn't going to reduce your reliance on plastic or fossil fuels. If anything the chaos causes more consumption as people get home late, don't have time to cook so resort to ready meals and takeaways.

[Fambo Number Mive]

I don't think XR and its supporters realise how difficult life is for the average working class person

Reading a BBC article on XR

However, the group doesn't say what the solutions to tackle climate change should be.

Instead, it wants the government to create a "citizens' assembly", made up of randomly selected people representing a cross-section of society.

If the BBC are correct, not suggesting solutions seems odd and silly. That's a bit if about whether the BBC are correct, considering XR are rightly calling for Heathrow not to be expanded.

Extinction Rebellion says anyone angered by its protests should "find out more about the severity of the ecological and climate crisis".

That comes across as an attempt to try and say that anyone who disagrees with how they protests is ill informed about climate change, whereas you can support what XR want but disagree with their means.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48607989

[Fambo Number Mive]

I know it sounds like I'm being anti-XR, gout_pony, but I do support what they are campaigning for, I just feel some of their methods are wrong and counter-productive.

[phes]

The End is Nigh seems to have been a part of humanity for.....ever?

Maybe we've replaced a religious fear of extinction with a scientific one. Or not.  Don't know. Don't care.

The end (moreorless, in terms of civilisations) kind of has come before, repeatedly.  And given the enormous rate of acceleration in population, energy requirement, risky nuclear power being just about the only realistic way we could produce that energy, and the climate hiccup, my fiver is on very possibly DEAD SOON

[Fambo Number Mive]

Extinction Rebellion protesters have blocked a main route into Bristol that leads to the M32.

Commuters are facing long delays after the campaigners gathered at Cabot Circus amid a series of protests.

The campaign group wants to encourage the government to do more to deal with the issue of climate change.

Traffic has tailed back as far as the M4 junction, about four miles (7km) away. Police have urged motorists to allow extra time for journeys.

During other Extinction Rebellion protests this week in Cardiff, Glasgow, Leeds and London activists used boats to block traffic.

One of the protesters in Bristol said they had been being forced to act because "governments and local councils aren't".

Ben Moss said: "We're in the middle of a climate emergency and things aren't changing quick enough, and we're really sorry for the disruption.

"We recognise it's an inconvenience and it's temporary, but it's nothing compared to the inconvenience that people are going to be experiencing in 20 years - particularly the younger generation who have a massive representation here."...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-49015252

Looks like Bristol is doing quite a bit to avoid climate change: http://www.bristol.ac.uk/news/2019/july/cabot-sdgs-report-.html

I wonder how many motorists will turn their engines off in the four mile tailback.

[garbed_attic]

I wonder how many motorists will turn their engines off in the four mile tailback.

True, but they bloody should. As a non-driver I'm getting increasingly fed up with the rights of motorists taking precedence over those of non-drivers. Yes, some people really do need to drive, but there are so, so many people who could take the bus or cycle or just walk and choose not to do so for convenience's sake.

---

Thanks for the responses all - clocking them up, by far the most common reasons were a sense of apathy/ futility/ nihilism and a dislike of middle-class hippies, which I think is what I expected. Since I grew up in a village and one of my parents went to uni, I'm squarely middle-class (though obvs have spent years working in retail like most sods) but here in Ipswich I'd say there's a fair mix in that regards... yes, there are a couple of civil servants, but also an engineer, an ex-probation officer etc. not all of whom come from middle-class backgrounds. A lot of Ipswich is pretty impoverished, though it'd be good to get more of the Gainsborough area involved. I can see the issue that knife crime round there has gotten so bad however that the climate doesn't seem like a pressing concern when you're losing friends and acquaintances in stabbings and knife fights with grim regularity.

[kittens]

traffic was not moving as i cycled into work in the centre of bristol today. i knew these rascals would be behind it.

i honestly believe this group will not achieve anything until they start actively going out into the community and killing people.

[garbed_attic]

traffic was not moving as i cycled into work in the centre of bristol today. i knew these rascals would be behind it.

i honestly believe this group will not achieve anything until they start actively going out into the community and killing people.

To be fair... there should be some costs to the gentrification of Bristol to all the young middle-class 20-somethings moving there!

[Blumf]

Thanks for the responses all - clocking them up, by far the most common reasons were a sense of apathy/ futility/ nihilism and a dislike of middle-class hippies, which I think is what I expected

What about the point that XR don't actually provide any direction or solutions?

[chveik]

What about the point that XR don't actually provide any direction or solutions?

oh fuck off

[garbed_attic]

What about the point that XR don't actually provide any direction or solutions?

As said, by far the most common points - your point came up a lot less.

I mean, if I were in power, I'd implement:

- Rationing of flights (including for business purposes)
- Only one car allowed per family; petrol restrictions and taxation; investment in public transport
- Quick scaling back and eventual closure of meat and dairy industries
- Far less new building schemes; definitely no third runway
- Closure of oil, gas and coal stations... personally I don't think we can afford to decommission all nuclear power plants, however scary their existence is with rising sea levels and climate catastrophe
- Rationing of electricity usage. For most households, no electricity at night
- Lots of other stuff that the vast majority of people would never vote for

I suspect that at least some of that is the kind of thing Greta Thunberg and the other young activists would implement if they were in positions of political power... probably is, for them to get into positions of political power to implement these changes would take at least a decade. If massive changes aren't made within that timeframe we and most other life on Earth are is fucked (rather than just mostly fucked).

Problem is, our government and even more so America's government (and many of the world's governments) are very much in the pocket of oil corporations and others who have a vested financial interest in business as usual. One of the reasons I'm not as concerned by the anti-democratic aspects of XR (i.e. "forcing" governments to make changes) is that I'm not convinced that Britain (and, again, more so America) is really functioning at a democracy at this point in history, more as a corporatocracy supported by consultancy firms like Cambridge Analytica.

Historically the transition from "anti-politics" to politics has been tricky... Václav Havel's anti-politics worked well from a dissident position, but morphed into little more than neoliberalism once he was in power. As such, I can understand thewhile the XR line that we're "not a political organisation" is a bit disingenious, tactically and ideologically it makes perfect sense.

[Fambo Number Mive]

I don't think you could say no electricity at night for anyone really (what happens if your train is delayed and you get back at 1am) but you could charge a premium for it. I think there is a problem with society which is that for a lot of people the only things they have to occupy them are electronic.

Rationing of flights (including for business purposes) - yes
- Only one car allowed per family; petrol restrictions and taxation; investment in public transport - yes (although if a couple were both disabled there should be an exception, same for rural people).
- Quick scaling back and eventual closure of meat and dairy industries - yes, but would need to find jobs for meat and dairy farmers
- Far less new building schemes; definitely no third runway - Difficult one as we need hundreds of thousands of homes, but I agree no airport expansion (and maybe we could close some runways?)
- Closure of oil, gas and coal stations... personally I don't think we can afford to decommission all nuclear power plants, however scary their existence is with rising sea levels and climate catastrophe - Yes, once we have enough renewables to switch over in place.

I'd vote for most of what you propose.

[Elderly Sumo Prophecy]

You can fuck off with the meat and dairy thing. Does that mean everyone has to become vegan?

[Icehaven]

- Rationing of electricity usage. For most households, no electricity at night

Much better idea, no electricity during the day, as most people are out then anyway. Seriously though, I can see the logic in several of your points but if sitting in dark silence is your reward for working all day (bear in mind it gets dark before 7pm for a significant part of the year) then I think I'd rather watch the world burn. Isn't working out too well in North Korea either.

I don't think you could say no electricity at night for anyone really (what happens if your train is delayed and you get back at 1am) but you could charge a premium for it. I think there is a problem with society which is that for a lot of people the only things they have to occupy them are electronic.

Not really on board with this either, why should better off people get the advantage yet again? And given most non-electronic activities bar sex* still require a reasonable amount of light to do them by, unless we're all planning on sleeping 12 hours a day the future would be bloody boring.



*An increase of which wouldn't exactly help overpopulation now would it?