What don't you join Extinction Rebellion?

[The Boston Crab]

https://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,73907.0.html

I don't get it buddy, seems you misunderstood. Maybe take more exercise instead of your madness placeobs and see the world through a clearer lens where a guy can plant a tree, have a faith and find do-gooder cunts cunts. All of the best buddy.

[madhair60]

i think extinctions good, i like it

[DoesNotFollow]

I went to a few XR meetings in the city I was studying in. It was a small, newly re-formed group but this was in the weeks leading up to the April action in London so there was no lack of enthusiasm and new faces each time. I went with the mindset of just observing and seeing if there was a place I felt I could fit in and help.

After a few weeks I hadn't really found that place, and I discovered I really don't have much patience for meetings. The tangents and conflicting positions and opinions - while totally understandable and natural in a growing group of people - only served to hasten my disinterest.

This is not to mention that the 'direct action' is largely not the kind of direct action I'm into - I've already been working as a practical volunteer for a number of years in wildlife conservation and more recently reforestation. Through someone I met at the XR meetings I got involved in a community gardening project in the city which was much more my sort of thing; working outside with my hands, learning new skills and seeing first-hand the impact I'm having, however small. Soon I was doing that once or twice a week, rather than going to a meeting.

So, as a way to meet some like-minded people it was pretty positive but I just couldn't sustain an interest in XR itself. Naturally I'm not averse to working with them in future, but it'd likely have to be in the context of a specific practical conservation or art project.

[Blumf]

Checking their site - https://rebellion.earth/ - and I don't see any solutions, just the same old vague 'something must be done' calls.

Well, yeah, and we've known that for decades, we're past that, we need clear plans. Those plans do exist, so why don't they show them? Without that all they're doing is playing up to stereotypes of clueless protesters for protesting's sake, with the added bonus of looking shifty.

It's frustrating, because they're right, but I don't see them lasting.

[Cloud]

I'm arsed, but not arsed enough (no matter how much you wave your arms in the air yelling "the planet's dyin', Cloud!!").  Yes it's selfish (aren't most people) but you can live your life in utter misery and frustration, constantly angry that the world isn't listening to you shouting that it's burning, or you can say fuck it, do a bit of pointless internet slacktivism and vote for the right people, and otherwise just try to chill out and enjoy the life you're lucky enough to have.  I go for the latter.

[Sin Agog]

I was a part of this XR event at Glastonbury a week or so ago (near the boat on the right).  There were two speeches, and some fucking tweaked culty commandant in a white kaftan was screaming at everyone to shut their geggys and get in line during the first lady's one.  Was fucked off with the first speech, really.  It's an important political issue- there was no need to bang on about feeling the earth energies and whatnot. Stick to the isshas.  The second lady was great, though.  Sounded like Patti Smith on a Huey P. Newton riff.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Checking their site - https://rebellion.earth/ - and I don't see any solutions, just the same old vague 'something must be done' calls.

Well, yeah, and we've known that for decades, we're past that, we need clear plans. Those plans do exist, so why don't they show them? Without that all they're doing is playing up to stereotypes of clueless protesters for protesting's sake, with the added bonus of looking shifty.

It's frustrating, because they're right, but I don't see them lasting.

They seem to suffer from the problem a lot of environmentalists suffer from, in that they naysay everything and have a bit of scientific illiteracy.

Not all plastics are bad, and if we bin them off we'll have to use more co2 ferrying glass around, etc.

Ironically we'd be in a much better place if we'd adopted more nuclear stuff in the 80's and 90's, something 'greens' rallied against. It's only the rapid improvement in renewables renewables and the fact it takes nearly 20 years to build a nuclear plant that makes it unlikely we'll need them once they come online.

[Fabian Thomsett]

...because they're stupid hippies who have a weird fetish for getting themselves arrested (which I find downright dangerous)

https://twitter.com/XRebellionUK/status/1148154033661763584

[Danger Man]

People full of self loathing?

What on earth could Gout Pony see in them??

[jonbob]

Because the person I know has joined drives a 4wd, takes a least one international flight a year and thinks that everyone else is the problem..

[Sebastian Cobb]

They should scrap their medium-efficient 4x4 for an entirely new electric vehicle and switch to several shorthaul annual getaways at once.

[Elderly Sumo Prophecy]

I just don't think dreadlocks look very good on white people.

[Fambo Number Mive]

I agree with what XR are campaigning for but I think blocking roads and not letting buses or cars with blue badges past is a mistake, especially as they let bikes past. Buses are the main means of transport for many working class, elderly and disabled people and I just feel that it's not very progressive for activists to disrupt people who probably have hard enough lives as it is in an attempt to make the establishment (who couldn't care less if a few roads are blocked, given how they are still going ahead with the expansion of Heathrow) change their mind.  I don't like the argument that a lot of people make that if you criticise XR's methods you are a climate change denier.

[JesusAndYourBush]

Because it only works if mankind completely changes every aspect of their lifestyle overnight, and that will never happen.

Yes.  There's just too many humans on the planet.  "But there's plenty of room" someone usually says at this point. Yes, but the global warming is caused by the infrastructure, everything we do as humans for our travel, food production, manufacturing of goods, etc, and it's already too much.  Filling up that "plenty of room" will only make it worse.

The only way to stop global warming is to reduce the number of humans on the planet, and we're not going to do that... we can't do that... so the population will continue to rise.  When you look at any closed ecosystem, whether it's fish in a pond or bacteria in a petri dish... that population continues to rise until something disastrous happens.  Sure we can try and reduce CO2 emissions or only allow families to have one child or whatever but it's only going to delay the inevitable rather than fix things.

So we'll go on.  Even if we try and do things to reduce global warming it won't be enough.  At some point there'll be a disastrous fail and those that remain will pick up the pieces and start again.

[Mister Six]

Because it only works if mankind completely changes every aspect of their lifestyle overnight, and that will never happen.

No, most (in the region of 70 percent, I think) factors influencing man-made climate change are corporate or military in nature. You getting the bus to work rather than a car helps, but it's the corporations that are logging, using fossil fuel energy, carting stuff thousands of miles for cheaper production and so on that are fucking things up properly.

There would be a knock-on effect for the average Joe - pricier items in the supermarket, for example - but he's not going to have to live in a wattle and daub hut to make a difference.

[GMTV]

The mind boggling horror of the 'action' required means any real achievement is probably impossible. Of course that doesn't mean we shouldn't do anything, and I'm glad groups of people are at least trying to bring focus to the issue.

The big problem is the action required to meaningfully reduce climate change and protect the environment seems as bad if not worse in the short term, than the predicted long term effects. Unfortunately it's almost impossible to see a global consensus that trying to preemptively mitigate climate change and destruction of the environment is worth doing for the price that would be paid in massively reduced living standards now.

I think the reality will be carry on as normal and deal with the predicted horrors if they happen to arise.

[The Boston Crab]

I used to be a massive believer in green living before I lived in China and saw the extent of the problem. I could change how I live the rest of my entire life for seventy years and the positive impact would be negated in five minutes by China. I feel it's the destiny of the planet to die. We were given heaven on Earth and we destroyed it, all of us, through pure selfishness, stupidity and greed.

[Twit 2]

Some right miserable, fatalistic gits in this thread. I know it's CaB, but you've outdone yourself. Poor gout pony.

[The Boston Crab]

Live in China for one day and stare into the abyss. It's great fun but it's ecological horror at every turn.

[BlodwynPig]

Yes.  There's just too many humans on the planet.  "But there's plenty of room" someone usually says at this point. Yes, but the global warming is caused by the infrastructure, everything we do as humans for our travel, food production, manufacturing of goods, etc, and it's already too much.  Filling up that "plenty of room" will only make it worse.

The only way to stop global warming is to reduce the number of humans on the planet, and we're not going to do that... we can't do that... so the population will continue to rise.  When you look at any closed ecosystem, whether it's fish in a pond or bacteria in a petri dish... that population continues to rise until something disastrous happens.  Sure we can try and reduce CO2 emissions or only allow families to have one child or whatever but it's only going to delay the inevitable rather than fix things.

So we'll go on.  Even if we try and do things to reduce global warming it won't be enough.  At some point there'll be a disastrous fail and those that remain will pick up the pieces and start again.

No, population will rise until ecological or health catastrophe. We've largely avoided the latter due to artificial mitigation (medicine, tech) but the former is harder to prevent - hence, death of poor

[AllisonSays]

i'm considering it. not enough class politics tho. and i'm put off by the xr 'police' and xr 'landlords' groupuscles.

[BlodwynPig]

Live in China for one day and stare into the abyss. It's great fun but it's ecological horror at every turn.

宣言 62

[GMTV]

No, population will rise until ecological or health catastrophe. We've largely avoided the latter due to artificial mitigation (medicine, tech) but the former is harder to prevent - hence, death of poor

A good ol' war would sort it out too perhaps.

The real Extinction Rebellion will be whichever ARE BRAVE BOYS win WWIII.

[BlodwynPig]

A good ol' war would sort it out too perhaps.

The real Extinction Rebellion will be whichever ARE BRAVE BOYS win WWIII.

War, poverty, disease, famine, natural disaster - all means of Earth naturally self-regulating, directly or indirectly. Damming the river to avoid any of these will inevitably lead to more extreme versions of these down the road - or you move to Mars and start again.

[Buelligan]

I don't have much free time to do stuff, I'm either working or walking to work (because I run no vehicles and there's no public transport) or I'm sleeping or trying to physically recover from the working and the heat (or trying to keep warm in winter).

I don't use a personal vehicle, make one shopping trip a week in a shared vehicle, don't take holidays, don't eat meat or processed foods, don't buy new things (like clothes or furniture or electrical shit and so on).  Save all grey water for watering plants.  Recycle waste. 

Also, if I'm honest, I believe that humans are unsavable.  I think that humans in general, like the British over brexit, believe they are exceptional and nothing really bad can ever happen to them as a result of any choice they make. 

IMO, a critical mass exists now of humanity (in the first world by location or wealth) who believe they can continue doing what they're doing without suffering any consequences, they just can't compass the concept that THEY CANNOT.  I think they accept that bad shit, existential shit, may happen to other people, like poor people, migrants, itinerants, ants, but they don't give a fuck about that as long as they can continue, immune, with their stupid mindless miserable consumption.

TBH, I think it would be fair if people like this were told that, through their actions and choices, they now had an hour to live (and then they would be confined somewhere to die of heat and thirst, no exceptions).  If you did a few large batches like this, maybe people would begin to understand.  But we can't and won't.  And anyway, I believe in compassion and a solution like that, however logical is never going to be compassionate.  Given that, I accept that nothing can now be done and so we must all die of thirst and heat.  I'll hold to my principles and the choices I've made for myself and hope that humanity dies out before it can destroy our beautiful incredible planet.

That's my true hope, that we're wiped off the face of this exquisite jewel, this paradise, that we're destroying and leave no scar.

[BlodwynPig]

Humanity, yesterday

[Icehaven]

Because I don't want to do the things they do, the activism stuff, it's just not how I want to spend my time. I wouldn't say I don't care at all about climate change, but I don't care enough to give my time over to doing things that I don't want to do, nor personally see as being particularly effective. Also, (and I do recognise this is not the kind of attitude that makes collective action effective), if they do make a difference, they'll have done it just the same with or without any involvement from me.

I don't drive, or fly, or have any kids, and while I'm not pretending for one minute that any of that is because of climate change (I can't drive or afford a car even if I could, I'm petrified of flying, and I've never wanted children) I do feel it somewhat offsets my lack of proactiveness and personal responsibility in other areas (I'm not particularly plastic conscious and I'd never give up meat.) I've voted Green a few times too, so that'll have to do I'm afraid.

[Paul Calf]

I do think XR is something of a religion whose rituals soothe people into imagining that they're Doing Something About This, but are largely ineffective. The whole of humanity needs to act: the man in the street needs to become personally aware of this, to grok it fully.

But the man in the street lives in Asia, makes $1000 a year if they're lucky and would consider the lifestyle that they're being urged to shun something akin to paradise on earth, something they could never aspire to.

[GMTV]

It would need to start with the haves going first to pursuade the have nots.

Obviously starting with the symbolic 1% or whatever level would be a good start.

Then huge punitive taxes on everything in the developed world. No more cars, foreign holidays, technology, Internet etc. One child policy. A new monoculture not based on the accumulation of wealth (where the fuck to even begin on that one). No more exporting of foods so back to an extremely basic locally sourced diet (enjoy your parsnip stew).

That's just for starters I guess.

[The Boston Crab]

I genuinely hope that humans die out but animals are left to enjoy the Earth with each other. That's my great hope for the future of the planet. Yeah, plenty of them would be eating each other and so on but there would be a good balance and more often than not they'd just be resting and enjoying some peace and quiet. If God made man in his own image, it shows how little need there is for God.