Author Topic: Short fuse bagel shop blowout  (Read 5133 times)

Re: Short fuse bagel shop blowout
« Reply #60 on: July 11, 2019, 01:35:11 PM »
In slight defence of the jumper, it did look like shouty man was getting increasingly physically confrontational with people and may have been trying to stop him attacking someone. It is hard to judge the mood of the room from a grainy youtube video

BlodwynPig

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Re: Short fuse bagel shop blowout
« Reply #61 on: July 11, 2019, 01:43:03 PM »


I’d expect better from you, but you’ll probably beat me at snooker as you’ll have longer reach

Butchers Blind

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Re: Short fuse bagel shop blowout
« Reply #62 on: July 11, 2019, 01:43:15 PM »
Bagels are shit. We can all find a side to come down on there though, right?

Re: Short fuse bagel shop blowout
« Reply #63 on: July 11, 2019, 01:43:56 PM »
Shouty man was quite clearly not a physical threat to anybody. There is no reason to tackle somebody who is not posing an immediate threat to themselves or anyone else, no matter how much of a madarse incel bellend they are being.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 02:18:38 PM by Gerald Fjord »

BlodwynPig

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Re: Short fuse bagel shop blowout
« Reply #64 on: July 11, 2019, 01:47:17 PM »
I feel safe coming down on the side of empathy for someone who is clearly having some kind of mental episode.

He’s just fed up

Re: Short fuse bagel shop blowout
« Reply #65 on: July 11, 2019, 01:47:21 PM »
A lot of the comments under the video seemed to be people trying to justify and put a progressive spin on their sadistic desires. You get off on seeing a vulnerable guy pummeled by a big guy, but you're pretending it's because the victim was a dangerous incel and potential murderer (people have actually said this).  You like to see "others" suffer, just admit it.

Anyway Barry's post was very good, and I agree that the back story matters hugely, but part of me worries about the "is he just a liar / cunt" line of thought, because even if he was, I still don't think he deserves 1% of what he must have gone through by now. And he probably was a bit of a sexist prick, but he's been turned into the biggest victim by the online mob. I kind of resent them as they are brilliant at making me feel sorry for, and defend people I'd otherwise hate.

Being captured in a moment of rage or stupidity and turned into a meme is an irrational fear of mine. I can't imagine how humiliating it must be, I'd worry that co-workers and anyone else who knows me would see it and ridicule me directly, or the awareness would always be under the surface, and people in the street would point and snigger. Also knowing that millions of people are laughing at one of your lowest moments, and probably will for years to come, must feel violating too.

ETA: Without being too absurd, I suppose you could also speculate and apply the "having a bad day/cracking after years of abuse" line to the attacker, or anyone else in the shop. Maybe that guy has an abusive boss who shouts at him and snapped, or maybe the girls ridiculing his height had had short, abusive boyfriends. All very unlikely, but we can all find excuses to justify bad behaviour and play the victim after the fact.


canadagoose

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Re: Short fuse bagel shop blowout
« Reply #66 on: July 11, 2019, 02:40:39 PM »
Shouty man was quite clearly not a physical threat to anybody. There is no reason to tackle somebody who is not posing an immediate threat to themselves or anyone else, no matter how much of a madarse incel bellend they are being.
You think? He was threatening people and trying to fight them. I'm glad he was "taken down", the tosser.

Twed

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Re: Short fuse bagel shop blowout
« Reply #67 on: July 11, 2019, 02:47:24 PM »
You think? He was threatening people and trying to fight them. I'm glad he was "taken down", the tosser.
You don't think that was disproportionate force? Is there perhaps something between body slamming him to the ground and doing nothing at all that could have helped to defuse the situation?

Would you be happy if a cop used that amount of force in this situation?

canadagoose

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Re: Short fuse bagel shop blowout
« Reply #68 on: July 11, 2019, 02:54:02 PM »
You don't think that was disproportionate force? Is there perhaps something between body slamming him to the ground and doing nothing at all that could have helped to defuse the situation?

Would you be happy if a cop used that amount of force in this situation?
He seemed to be escalating and harassing multiple members of the public. I don't think it was disproportionate. If it was the police, they could just have arrested him, but the general public doesn't usually have handcuffs on them to restrain people like that.

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Re: Short fuse bagel shop blowout
« Reply #69 on: July 11, 2019, 02:56:20 PM »
What was disproportionate? There was no punches thrown, no intention to cause serious harm. Though what he should of said before the tackle was something along the lines can you please calm down, this behavoiur is unaccepeptable this is your final warning.

Re: Short fuse bagel shop blowout
« Reply #70 on: July 11, 2019, 02:58:10 PM »
I don't think it was that much force and probably the best way of subduing him with getting lamped, or getting him or anyone else more hurt. I can't say whether it was truly warranted or not but it did seem to me that he was getting more aggressive and seemed to be physically confronting the man on the left just before he got jumped on. Again, it is hard to read the temperature of the room from a Youtube clip

Cuellar

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Re: Short fuse bagel shop blowout
« Reply #71 on: July 11, 2019, 02:58:45 PM »
Bagels are shit. We can all find a side to come down on there though, right?

Shut up! You are not GOD you are not my FATHER

Re: Short fuse bagel shop blowout
« Reply #72 on: July 11, 2019, 03:08:53 PM »

Blue Jam

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Re: Short fuse bagel shop blowout
« Reply #73 on: July 11, 2019, 03:23:14 PM »
I’d expect better from you, but you’ll probably beat me at snooker as you’ll have longer reach

Sorry... and nah, at 5'4" I'm no Mark Selby, I'm from Short Island myself. Or as I'm a British woman, Bog-Standard Average Island.

Or Snooker Island. In any case, I find myself relying on the rest and the extension far too often...

Blue Jam

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Re: Short fuse bagel shop blowout
« Reply #74 on: July 11, 2019, 03:34:50 PM »
Also as you may remember I once spotted Mark Selby chatting with Ken Doherty. Doherty looked very dapper in jeans, a jumper and a tweed jacket while Selby was in his snooker clothes and looked like a gangly waiter. Short Island ftw.

Blue Jam

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Re: Short fuse bagel shop blowout
« Reply #75 on: July 11, 2019, 03:50:24 PM »
At first he looks like a giant prick (yeah, I know), but when you hear his take on it, he states that the girls behind the counter kept taunting him by offering him a mini bagel. And when you watch the video again, you see him pointing towards them, which seems to add weight to this premise.

Reading about this on Twitter, it seems the "Free mini bagel" offer may not be a cruel coincidence or the owner being a cheapskate, but the owner deliberately taking the piss out of the guy. If that's true then he's a cunt, but he's a cunt anyway for capitalising on someone's humiliation.

No-one comes out of this looking good, do they?


Re: Short fuse bagel shop blowout
« Reply #76 on: July 11, 2019, 03:59:08 PM »
My issue with stuff like this is you don’t see the surrounding context, and I was thinking of starting a different thread asking how you’d cope yourself if you had a bad day, and it was immortalised in one of these videos.

At first he looks like a giant prick (yeah, I know), but when you hear his take on it, he states that the girls behind the counter kept taunting him by offering him a mini bagel. And when you watch the video again, you see him pointing towards them, which seems to add weight to this premise.

But maybe he’s lying? Maybe the twitter feed isn’t being ironic or cunty and they’re currently promoting mini bagels, so that’s why the staff mentioned them.

Basically, the whole idea of taking a side is flawed from the start, and should be resisted, but it’s just too difficult, isn’t it? People sit on social networking all day deciding how awful people like this are, and reading an awful lot into very little. (Again, I know.) Then all the hack start with their usual articles about patriarchy, incels, political correctness, blah blah blah.

I’m reminded of this bit from Armando Iannucci’s “Facts and Fancies” (I think) which was about Big Brother; something about a guy eg cutting a lettuce the wrong way, and the press making a big deal about it, and then he gets called ‘lettuce twat’ for the rest of his miserable existence. It was brilliant at the time, nailing the idea that a short, edited clip could be used to ruin someone’s life and reputation for the purposes of low-quality entertainment, and now that’s what so much of internet culture is. People whipping out their phones to capture and spread someone in a vulnerable moment who, to be fair, might be acting like a complete cunt.

I don't think the problem is taking a side as much as it is the medieval form of totalizing punishment that the internet has adopted. Bagel man is clearly in the wrong, even if they were making fun of him he shouldn't be harassing people in their workplace. But that doesn't mean he should be bodyslammed by a deputized citizen or, more punitively, subjected to the mockery of 20 million people online when he is clearly already on the brink and suffering from severe self-esteem issues.

We are slipping backward into a Manichaean worldview where people who do bad things are deemed Evil and must be obliterated entirely.

Re: Short fuse bagel shop blowout
« Reply #77 on: July 11, 2019, 04:07:38 PM »
This doesn't sound like a one-off where he was hectored when already having a bad day, his youtube seems to be full of him kicking off at perceived slights.

https://nypost.com/2019/07/11/long-island-bagel-shop-customer-filmed-other-public-tirades/

Re: Short fuse bagel shop blowout
« Reply #78 on: July 11, 2019, 04:08:14 PM »
We are slipping backward into a Manichaean worldview where people who do bad things are deemed Evil and must be obliterated entirely.

Though I should amend this to say that we have always lived in the same shit society. The only thing new is that the internet has created a new mass pillory to more easily punish evildoers.

Blue Jam

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Re: Short fuse bagel shop blowout
« Reply #79 on: July 11, 2019, 04:10:51 PM »
Though I should amend this to say that we have always lived in the same shit society. The only thing new is that the internet has created a new mass pillory to more easily punish evildoers.

Years ago I went on a massive teary rant at some train station staff when a series of trains were cancelled and they clearly couldn't be arsed to sort out some alternative transport for the increasing number of stranded passengers and one got a bit aggressive (someone told me later he had been raising a fist and preparing to hit me- I had been too upset to notice). It ended well- the staff backed down and called some taxis for us all.

Anyway, I'm just glad this was in the time before cameraphones and no-one turned me into a viral or a meme, minus the context that my mother had just been diagnosed with terminal cancer and admitted to hospital, and I had spent the entire day trying to get to that hospital before visiting hours were over.

Re: Short fuse bagel shop blowout
« Reply #80 on: July 11, 2019, 04:26:49 PM »
and a lot of men go for shorter women because they "like to feel protective" (though personally I've always found that last one really creepy).

Do they? How do you know that?

I’m not especially tall but I’m taller than most women, and my last two girlfriends were shorter. There’s something pleasing about somebody gazing up into your eyes, I think, and I suppose I find shorter women more attractive in a general sense too. Strangely, they both said they liked having a taller boyfriend as it made them feel ‘protected’. The thought had never occurred to me and I found it more wildly deluded on their part than anything else.

Re: Short fuse bagel shop blowout
« Reply #81 on: July 11, 2019, 04:29:55 PM »
the raging beefcake who thought it was acceptable to drop tackle an annoying person in public.

I haven't watched the video or read people's opinions on it, but to be honest based on your description alone i'm going to say it's fine to go absolutely fucking berzerk and drop kick people in public because the image is really, really funny. Imagine some head the ball doing everyone's nut in and giving it the big 'un and out of nowhere some mad cunt comes flying like fucking SARACEN from GLADIATORS and just folds him in fucking half through a hamburger table, kids crying, fucking alarms going off, the lot, STAY DOWN BITCH and all that, magic. Perfectly acceptable.

Twed

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Re: Short fuse bagel shop blowout
« Reply #82 on: July 11, 2019, 04:36:47 PM »
Really sad that people genuinely think that best way to handle somebody lashing out is to body slam them. It's free to at least try to say "stop, come over here and talk to me" instead of immediately acting like he's a threat that needs to be neutralised. The body slamming comes much later in the chain

Blue Jam

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Re: Short fuse bagel shop blowout
« Reply #83 on: July 11, 2019, 04:41:07 PM »
Do they? How do you know that?

I’m not especially tall but I’m taller than most women, and my last two girlfriends were shorter. There’s something pleasing about somebody gazing up into your eyes, I think, and I suppose I find shorter women more attractive in a general sense too. Strangely, they both said they liked having a taller boyfriend as it made them feel ‘protected’. The thought had never occurred to me and I found it more wildly deluded on their part than anything else.

Hahahaha! To answer your question, I have seriously heard men say they like a petite woman to make them feel protective, and on the flipside, I have heard women say they like to feel protected by a taller man. It's not something I'm into though...

As for gazing into a man's eyes, maybe it's just me but I like being able to do it without craning my neck...

Personally I've never had a "thing" for tall guys, is that weird? I just think shorter and average-height men tend to look a bit tidier, probably because they don't slouch so much and have better posture...

Re: Short fuse bagel shop blowout
« Reply #84 on: July 11, 2019, 04:41:15 PM »
Nah mate, first move, adopt a fucking combat stance and force them into a fucking KIMURA LOCK, American Ninja 4 the lot of them

Re: Short fuse bagel shop blowout
« Reply #85 on: July 11, 2019, 04:42:05 PM »
The equivalent with women, dating wise, is weight, although that is somewhat linked to personality in a way that height isn't. If a woman is able to have self control with her diet, she is likely to be in control of the rest of her life and therefore a more stable and committed life partner.

Sorry I didn't realise I was on 4chan?

What a load of self-serving misogynistic bollocks.

When it comes to staying thin, the standards for women are outlandish. Which doesn't really make sense, since it's natural for a woman to have more weight on her than a bloke. And yet society judges them mostly on their appearance, and their dedication to the goal of achieving it. Following unhealthy diets, fads or starving yourself has nothing to do with self-control - and everything to do with poor fucking women devoting their lives to simply not being seen as useless.

Every woman I've ever known had unhealthy views and obsession when it comes to their weight. And just like that, your life is wasted away, unfulfilled, chasing random numbers on the scale and seing it spiraling down into anorexia or depression.

In my own experience it took way more effort to reject these societal norms and standards, and not let my life be constantly affected by some random goal that is never meant to be reached, no matter how hard you try - because it's been put in place specifically to keep me down and obsessing over it. And it still gets to me when I'm feeling a bit more down or vulnerable. Surely eating mostly healthily and exercising should be enough for a human to be alright with themselves. Having time for their hobbies, developing their personalities and so on is surely more valuable in a partner than "self-control". Fuck that shit you're already controlling, why would I want to join in?

A lot of guys would prefer to use weight to keep their partner in a state of anxiety, rather than let them cut back and get pissed and actually have fun together. You might think that you don't, but it's hidden in the way you view women, and it comes out subtly in how you treat them.

I sure hope that women, and young girls especially, will realize not to waste their time with people who think like you, and not take your worthless opinion seriously, and therefore have an opportunity to live fulfilling lives. Somehow a woman that is suffering body dysmorphia, anorexia or depression is supposed to be the "approved" one. Fucking insanity.

Let me tell you, a pint of beer and a steak is worth a hundred of blokes like you. Or a spliff and a bottle of wine and more steak. I'd rather have a bit of a belly than give up all of life's finer pleasures for somebody's bizzare views on appearance.
Also the same applies to blokes, I'm not judging you either ;)

Re: Short fuse bagel shop blowout
« Reply #86 on: July 11, 2019, 04:42:43 PM »
Really sad that people genuinely think that best way to handle somebody lashing out is to body slam them. It's free to at least try to say "stop, come over here and talk to me" instead of immediately acting like he's a threat that needs to be neutralised. The body slamming comes much later in the chain
In some of the other videos people are trying to mediate (including some reasonably calm police) but he still continues to go mental. There's one in a pub where he's doing the typical almost-but-not-quite starting a fight routine until they get kicked out, probably so they can claim they would've won if they hadn't been held back.

Bloke who bodyslammed him is a bell, but if you keep going into barbers you'll eventually end up with a haircut.

Endicott

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Re: Short fuse bagel shop blowout
« Reply #87 on: July 11, 2019, 04:43:20 PM »
Even at 5'8" I am severely limited to who I can date and how i'm perceived so god only knows what blokes in the genuinely 5'6" and shorter range go through, jesus. I think this bloke needs some help though.

I'm 5'7", and have dated taller women. One of them much taller. Maybe your height isn't really the problem?

Re: Short fuse bagel shop blowout
« Reply #88 on: July 11, 2019, 04:44:04 PM »
Do they? How do you know that?

I’m not especially tall but I’m taller than most women, and my last two girlfriends were shorter. There’s something pleasing about somebody gazing up into your eyes, I think, and I suppose I find shorter women more attractive in a general sense too. Strangely, they both said they liked having a taller boyfriend as it made them feel ‘protected’. The thought had never occurred to me and I found it more wildly deluded on their part than anything else.

Seems to me it's all part of socialized patriarchy and gender norms. Men tend to be more attracted to women who are shorter than them for the same reason they tend to be attracted to younger women, to signal their relative dominance (and because one of the symptoms of patriarchy is never ending and deep seated male insecurity). But the flipside is that in a patriarchal society women tend to be more attracted to signals of dominance, including taller men and older men and men who don't get bodyslammed in bagel shops.

I'm waiting for the day that these dwarven incel types start to realize that their greatest ally is the destruction of the existing system, but they revert to angry misogyny and Chad-worship instead. Some kind of Marxist false consciousness issue.

Blue Jam

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Re: Short fuse bagel shop blowout
« Reply #89 on: July 11, 2019, 04:44:19 PM »
New Folder, will you marry me? Only if you're over 6'0", mind...