Utter cults

[Sebastian Cobb]

Looks like Alex Winter.

[petril]

[flotemysost]

Got audited by Scientologists outside a shopping centre (well, before they dragged me to their HQ). E-meter, upselling of gigantic slab of a Dianetics book, offer of invites to events with Tom Cruise and John Travolta, the works. They gave up when I said I'd read something interesting recently about Scientology being associated with Holocaust denial and racial supremacy theories.

Colleague (and good mate of mine) is an ex-JW. She's 26 and she left a couple of years ago as things were getting serious with her boyfriend, who isn't part of the church, and it's absolutely heartbreaking how she's been treated by her own family - it really is as though the person's dead to them. She's put on an incredibly brave face but I can't imagine what she's been going through inside.

The ridiculous thing is that said boyfriend is actually a very nice, caring, responsible guy, the sort you'd imagine most God-fearing parents would be thrilled for their daughter to be bringing home.

[Twit 2]

I used to teach music in a Plymouth Brethren school. It was genuinely horrible and a 100% cult with bells on. I couldn't wait to get out of there.

[José]

Islam is a sun-worshipping cult that has really forgotten its roots.

[Icehaven]

Turns out the Jesus Army were just as rum as we all thought they were back in the 90s when they used to turn up in their buses outside nightclubs and hand out luminous plastic crucifixes, ice cream and general unease. As amusing as it was watching loads of pissed up folks wearing huge orange crosses while dancing to Pulp in Coventry Coliseum, it was always slightly unnerving popping out for a burger halfway through the night and being approached by some Ned Flanders asking if were OK and having a good night or did we want to talk about anything. God knows how many people off their faces they kidnapped.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48447066
(Summary; It was run by abusive pervs, surprise surprise.)

I was wary of them anyway as someone I vaguely knew a few years before that had got involved with them and her Mum and sister had been concerned as they appeared to be trying to make her distance herself from them. She was about 16 or 17 and had slight learning difficulties, absolute textbook target for cults. Dunno what happened as I didn't really know her that well and obviously lost touch with her around that time, but when I saw their buses around Coventry, and particularly when they started turning up outside clubs, they just exuded creepiness.

[Jockice]

This lot. Worse than any actual religion on earth.


https://www.b12deficiency.info/blog/2018/07/15/have-you-been-told-to-shut-up-about-b12-deficiency/

[Jockice]

T As amusing as it was watching loads of pissed up folks wearing huge orange crosses while dancing to Pulp in Coventry Coliseum

A member of Pulp in the 80s left the band to join this lot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_O%27Clock_Service

This chap here. He used to appear naked on stage then suddenly he's trying to get you into religion. Later on (having gone off God) he was the bloke who streaked across the stage at Glastonbury when Elastica were playing. https://variety.com/2019/music/news/peaky-blinders-composer-music-antony-genn-hilarious-talk-midem-1203233645/. He didn't go to school with Jarvis though. He's nearly a decade younger.

[king_tubby]

Oh, I remember them, I was at university in Sheffield at the time.

[Jockice]

Oh, I remember them, I was at university in Sheffield at the time.

Weird period. Several people I knew were involved with it. Including a couple of very fanciable females. I even nearly went once just to see what it was like. But it was raining so I didn't bother. Could have changed my whole history.

[Jockice]

This lot. Worse than any actual religion on earth.


https://www.b12deficiency.info/blog/2018/07/15/have-you-been-told-to-shut-up-about-b12-deficiency/

I'd just like to add that a member of my family is a member of this cult and her own children no longer talk to her because of it. Yet she posted the above piece on her Facebook page along with a comment about being treated as if she was in a medieval witch trial. Literally the opposite of what happened. Everyone actually showed commendable tolerance until she pushed them too far

Like all cult believers she will not accept that someone else may have a different opinion. I'd actually feel quite sorry for her except that she aggravated me to the extent that we didn't speak for a while and are now only doing so on the proviso that she never ever mentions it to me again for the rest of my life. And I will cut her off if she ever does it again, with no compunction at all

[Bently Sheds]

Mrs Sheds bought some Herbalife off her coworker once. That's the closest I've come to a cult.

[Jockice]

Mrs Sheds bought some Herbalife off her coworker once. That's the closest I've come to a cult.

Divorce her now! Otherwise you'll regret it forevermore.

[Icehaven]

This lot. Worse than any actual religion on earth.


https://www.b12deficiency.info/blog/2018/07/15/have-you-been-told-to-shut-up-about-b12-deficiency/

I've never even heard of this, it's absolutely bizarre, like being obsessed with how much broccoli other people eat or whether or not they drink tap water. I'd consider anyone apparently so fixated with and unable to speak about anything except such an isolated, niche thing to possibly have a psychological condition.

[Jockice]

I've never even heard of this, it's absolutely bizarre, like being obsessed with how much broccoli other people eat or whether or not they drink tap water. I'd consider anyone apparently so fixated with and unable to speak about anything except such an isolated, niche thing to possibly have a psychological condition.

Take it from me Icehaven. It's even weirder than it seems. I ummed and ahed about even posting that link because I really don't want to give them publicity and there is also the vague chance it could get traced back to me. I'm not scared, just don't want anything more to do with it.

But as I've said, a relative of mine is involved in it and has driven a huge wedge into family relationships. Don't believe that in the link about how they don't really think everything is caused by this deficiency. Because they really do. It is literally their only topic of conversation. And for someone with me who actually has an undiagnosed disorder, well that's it, it must be. I'm just being difficult in not accepting that I can be miraculously cured. Apart from the fact I've asked about half a dozen doctors if there is any possibility of it being this and been told no, and that I have fairly regular blood tests and have asked them to check if I have a deficiency (or there is any possibility that I could ever have had one or  they could have missed it or I could have been misdiagnosed) and been told no. I've even tried the stuff (over a period of several months) to try and shut this person up but when it didn't have any effect on me it was of course because I hadn't taken it the right way or was taking something else that stopped it working...

Jesus! I'd rather be stuck with one of his freaks than this situation. Or a bunch of satanists come to think of it.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Some builder in a pub (from the north of england, but travelling up to aberdeen for work) started waxing lyrical to me about the magic of 'minerals', some effervescent wafer you stick in some water and it cures all ills? I suppose the only reason the doctors don't know about it is because they haven't paid the small fee for the catalogue.

[Ferris]

I've never even heard of this, it's absolutely bizarre, like being obsessed with how much broccoli other people eat or whether or not they drink tap water. I'd consider anyone apparently so fixated with and unable to speak about anything except such an isolated, niche thing to possibly have a psychological condition.

Yeah, this. What's the setup - they don't give a shit about my B6, but B12 is the source of eternal youth? Maybe they're just mad.

I was invited to a pyramid scheme meeting years ago after leaving a temp job by a former colleague, but it was all very vague. I thought they wanted to meet for a drink (it was in the back room of a bar, maybe to say congrats on the new job?), but actually they wanted to monetize my relationships with themselves and others to sell phone lines or something. The guy leading the seminar kept mentioning how much personal information he had on her, which I thought was fucking mad but she seemed amused by. Walked out after a few minutes. Was so angry I bought a pack of cigarettes.

I saw other sad sacks from the temp office I used to work at, and one was furiously taking notes so I assume these things work. Happily I can't remember the person's name, or the "company" name, or what they did, so that's good.

[Ferris]

Take it from me Icehaven. It's even weirder than it seems. I ummed and ahed about even posting that link because I really don't want to give them publicity and there is also the vague chance it could get traced back to me. I'm not scared, just don't want anything more to do with it.

But as I've said, a relative of mine is involved in it and has driven a huge wedge into family relationships. Don't believe that in the link about how they don't really think everything is caused by this deficiency. Because they really do. It is literally their only topic of conversation. And for someone with me who actually has an undiagnosed disorder, well that's it, it must be. I'm just being difficult in not accepting that I can be miraculously cured. Apart from the fact I've asked about half a dozen doctors if there is any possibility of it being this and been told no, and that I have fairly regular blood tests and have asked them to check if I have a deficiency (or there is any possibility that I could ever have had one or  they could have missed it or I could have been misdiagnosed) and been told no. I've even tried the stuff (over a period of several months) to try and shut this person up but when it didn't have any effect on me it was of course because I hadn't taken it the right way or was taking something else that stopped it working...

Jesus! I'd rather be stuck with one of his freaks than this situation. Or a bunch of satanists come to think of it.

Sorry if I'm being dense or being nosey, but can you not say "oh yes, I took lots and lots of whatever it is you think I should but it hasn't made a difference"?

Might give them pause for thought, and get them off your back as a two for one.

[Jockice]

Sorry if I'm being dense or being nosey, but can you not say "oh yes, I took lots and lots of whatever it is you think I should but it hasn't made a difference"?

Might give them pause for thought, and get them off your back as a two for one.

I tried being polite. I tried ignoring it. I tried laughing it off. As I said, I even injected the stuff into myself. I tried every method. Nothing worked. It was relentless. Utter conviction on their part. It is a miracle cure and the only reason I wasn't being miraculously cured was that I didn't want to be miraculously cured, so I  was deliberately stopping myself from being miraculously cured. Take it from me, what I'm writing here is only skimming the very surface of what went on.

The only way I stopped it was (justifiably I think) telling this person they were in a cult and cutting off contact. We are back on speaking terms now but other family members aren't (with her. I'm fine with them) and I know for a fact she still believes that all my medical problems are caused by this deficiency (as were all those of another family member who died over 15 years ago. Don't know how she knows that. Maybe a ghost appeared in her living room and told her). But I think even she realised that she went beyond my breaking point. Still regularly posts about it on Facebook (and has mentioned it once in a message but as it was near Christmas and she was referring to someone else I let her off) but if she ever tries to drag me into it again that'll really be it.

[Jockice]

Incidentally, doctors only receive 20 minutes training about this. That's all doctors, even highly-qualified specialists. They know nothing, it's all down to people with no medical qualifications who've read a book and a few articles on a website to tell them about it. Doctors of course are always very grateful to hear this. You can see the scales drop from their eyes and they realise they're wasted the seven years training to actually become a doctor and then all the extra time training in particular topics have been wasted. They've somehow managed to miss out on the greatest miracle cure on earth.

Now I'm not saying that doctors are perfect (take it from me, in my life I've met quite a few who are ignoramuses or just twats) but when several of them all tell you the same thing (as one of them said to me: "We do check these things you know'') and even show you the figures to prove it but the cult tells you that they're still getting it wrong or just lying...because there's nothing doctors like more than NOT curing people. It's what they live for.

Sorry if it seems like I'm going on about this a bit but if you multiply it by a million that's what I had to put up with.

[Icehaven]

You should have just told her you were cured and were now faking any visible signs that you weren't to stop doctors getting suspicious. That makes absolutely no sense so she might just have bought it. 

[Jockice]

You should have just told her you were cured and were now faking any visible signs that you weren't to stop doctors getting suspicious. That makes absolutely no sense so she might just have bought it.

Big Pharma wouldn't let me do that though. Yes, they're involved in the conspiracy too.

[Poobum]

Had the pleasure of being raised a JW, mum hasn't had the good grace to shun me for leaving though. I was round hers a few months ago and learned they'd all been given letters to sign that were going to be sent to Putin to ask him kindly to stop persecuting all the Russian JWs. Not holding out much hope, but she might now be on a kill list now.

[Ambient Sheep]

The one that went crazy viral recently was footage of a very senior JW 'elder' seen buying a trolley load of expensive whisky on a Sunday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bbuNsxWkDo&t=13s

See I always think this about these incredibly prohibitive religions, and the Amish etc. Behind closed doors, how many of them reeeally stick to the letter, day in day out, for their whole lives? Particularly the senior ones who have way more resources and power than the lower echelons. Bishop Brennan's son and all that.

Just a point of info: the JWs don't have any prohibition on alcohol (although they'd frown on one getting blind drunk), nor are they banned from going shopping on Sundays afaik.

Drugs, gayness, sex-before-marriage, tobacco, swearing, voting and, of course, blood transfusions are their bugbears.

[Jerzy Bondov]

Highly recommend the film Apostasy, written and directed by an ex-JW. They don't come out of it very well I have to say. Really quite rum what they do in that film. Very bleak watch.

I feel very susceptible to getting got by a cult. I'm very easily swayed by charisma and attention. Think I'd have been well up for Jonestown.

[Icehaven]

Drugs, gayness, sex-before-marriage, tobacco, swearing, voting and, of course, blood transfusions are their bugbears.

So you can drink but not smoke? Seems the kind of arbitrary rule prompted by something like the founder's brother running the village pub or something.

[Poobum]

I did miss something that I'd have love have seen, by leaving the crazy god's gonna kill us all club. My sister was a full on baptized JW, who then had the temerity to do a bit of fornicating, so she was publicly disfellowshiped and made persona non grata. She wasn't there when the head elder was delivering the news to a packed congregation but my mum and dad were, and to say that my mum is sensitive soul who requires constant reassaurance and is ever miliseconds from a nervous breakdown would be understating it. She was obviously upset and humiliated, whilst my dad, who was a bipolar alcoholic with a bit of a chip on his shoulder, responded in his usual way, which is anger. Now I only have my mums description, but on hearing his step-daughter be declared a sinner to be shunned by this pompous twat, he gets up, calmly walks down the aisle, steps up to where the podium and smacks the elder right in the face then turns around, leaves and never goes back.

The elders though, when you're a kid you assume they must be sage like, but as you grow up you realize they're just tedious old men with a wafer thin grasp of theology backed by condescension, rote platitudes and undeserved assumed authority.

[Ambient Sheep]

So you can drink but not smoke? Seems the kind of arbitrary rule prompted by something like the founder's brother running the village pub or something.

Yup.

Although something's ringing a bell that tobacco wasn't banned initially, only later on (1950s?).


Fake EDIT: three-stage process it seems:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_Jehovah%27s_Witnesses_doctrine#Timeline_of_doctrinal_changes

1935: Tobacco use "unclean" and prohibited for Bethel (branch office) staff and traveling overseers

1942: Tobacco prohibition applied to all appointed positions, such as congregation overseers and servants

1973: Tobacco use banned. Tobacco users not to be accepted for baptism and baptized Witnesses to be disfellowshipped if they continue to smoke after "a reasonable period of time, such as six months".

Note also that sometimes things go the other way:

1952: Vaccines, previously condemned, considered acceptable.

That's a fascinating list tbh.  I had no idea, for example, that the ban on celebrating birthdays only came in in 1951.

[Ambient Sheep]

Now I only have my mums description, but on hearing his step-daughter be declared a sinner to be shunned by this pompous twat, he gets up, calmly walks down the aisle, steps up to where the podium and smacks the elder right in the face then turns around, leaves and never goes back.

Oh what a lovely story, thank you so much for sharing!


I do find the whole "shunning the leavers" stuff very disturbing, and the above list finally explains to me the source of my confusion surrounding it.

Confused, because over the years I've seen people on here talk about it a lot, and yet it was never a thing I remember whilst I was growing up around the religion.

The magic list explains all:

1981: Members who formally resign membership of the group(disassociate) are to be shunned in the same manner as disfellowshipped Witnesses.

I turned 17 in 1981, which was a few years past my most intensive brush with them.  I'm still kinda surprised that I wasn't aware of the change, but it does explain it, as I'd stopped reading most, if not all, of their literature about three or four years earlier.

So yeah, we can safely say that 1981 was the year in which it stopped being just an eccentric religion and truly became a cult, by cutting off apostates from their families and vice-versa.

The elders though, when you're a kid you assume they must be sage like, but as you grow up you realize they're just tedious old men with a wafer thin grasp of theology backed by condescension, rote platitudes and undeserved assumed authority.

There were two elders I chiefly remember from our local congregation when I was a kid.  One was a lovely man who was always very friendly to me, and the other was a creepy fucker to whom I took an instant dislike as he was always staring sternly at me.  When all the sexual abuse stuff came out a few years ago I wouldn't have been surprised if he was on the list.

His daughter, who was my age and when I was about 13 had a bit of a crush on (and maybe her on me too, but we never got to find out) turned up at my Dad's funeral 12 years ago, a lonely looking spinster.  Was trying to decide if closeted-gay or traumatised from sexual abuse, or both.

Sorry, rambling a bit.

[José]

i was thinking of starting a cult. a nice cult though, where everyone just sits around doing macramé and singing cumbaya and shit and we could drink lemonade and you'd give me all your money.