BBC documentary Inside the Secret World of Incels

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

On the subject itself (rather than the documentary I haven't watched and probably won't do):

Men in this predicament are battling with the mental pressure applied both externally and internally that if you haven't had sex by x age then there's something wrong with you, that you've failed on some quintessential level at living.

Quite obviously, any insecurity created as a result of that pressure is going to start inhibiting anyone's ability to form relationships. I didn't have the issue of virginity hanging over me but I did have over 4 years without any success with women, which felt like a lot, lot longer at the time, so I can understand the effects of that on psychological well-being. Self-esteem is vital to making progress in various areas in life because you need confidence to take risks. Unless you are lucky enough to have things handed to you, then you need to take risks to progress and lay the mental foundations to set you up in life.

While some of these selected characters we tend to be presented with are clearly poisonous and hateful, it shouldn't be underestimated, nor should it fail to be noted just how profoundly crippling the feeling of inadequacy can be, how unjust that can feel and just what lengths people will go to to try and square that just to keep on keeping on. I would characterise many of these people as struggling with forms of depression and anxiety disorders - it is actually pretty tragic.

You can see from there how many of these individuals aren't just failures with women but usually across a raft of other areas which also require confidence, assertive behaviour, and the willingness to try and fail. This becomes multiplying factor making them even less appealing to women. When you meet people they are assessing you as a whole, rather than simply your physical attractiveness.

It seems this problem has gone so far with some individuals that the whole concept of meeting someone is so ludicrous, as they are so acutely aware of the predicament, that the concept of the object of their desires becomes fantastical - and become wrapped up fictional ideals and petty mythology.

I can also appreciate that it must be intensely lonely. They don't feel they can talk about the issue with their friends or family, and so go online to seek people like them.

Obviously it is pathetic and in some cases generally horrible to see what the incel community does to people and in turn their ways of biting back at society, but I generally think the correct approach should be to try and understand rather than demanding they should be behaving more normally. By understanding you get past making ludicrous demands of depressed virgins who have fallen down a wormhole and are in a slough of despond and also find yourself noting that this could happen to innocent people. Incels are not comprised entirely of people of sound mind acting with clear individual initiative, it's a set of broken people who feel alienated from the world around them trying to start a campfire consolation and create space in their minds to deal with and rationalise their failure. Unfortunately on this particular subject there was a strong probability that this was going to lead to some severely twatty, pathetic behaviour. I also agree that the communities themselves probably need shaking up in some way, they are very dangerous and convinced in some cases of being morally justified. That deserves to be challenged.

But as for the individuals themselves, do they not deserve a greater degree of patience and rehabilitation? Some of the remarks I read from people (not on this thread, but before now on here and elsewhere) seem to suggest, or outright state that they don't if they are being twats. And I wonder how people can look at themselves and be so convinced they're better when they aren't willing to demonstrate one of the hallmarks of being a decent person - the ability to sympathise on a human level no matter how repugnant the front being put up. It does seem odd that being a mild failure with women will usually earn you sympathy but turning into a piece of wreckage because you couldn't deal with crushing pressure won't. Sympathy shouldn't be turned off like a tap just because you're offended by feral behaviour, in my opinion. They are still humans and can be recovered with time and patience.

[Pedro_Bear]

Has anyone posted The Shy Boys documentary yet? This incel thing is nothing new, Nintendo Face n'all. This is possibly the best way to watch it, with a greek chorus from an internet supervillain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuDyRI8uVbc I can't imagine the BBC are going to be particularly sympathetic given their mates at HuffPo seems to consider "incel" to be synonymous with "mass murderer in the making." Then again, if Shy Boys is anything to go by, they won't have to work too hard. These closet cases do themselves no favours.

[Johnny Yesno]

On the subject itself (rather than the documentary I haven't watched and probably won't do):

... etc.

That's a decent post, Shoulders. ContraPoints's video on the subject is a critical and humane analysis and probably more revealing than the documentary in question, by the sounds of it:

Incels | ContraPoints: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD2briZ6fB0

[bgmnts]

On the subject itself (rather than the documentary I haven't watched and probably won't do):

Men in this predicament are battling with the mental pressure applied both externally and internally that if you haven't had sex by x age then there's something wrong with you, that you've failed on some quintessential level at living.

Quite obviously, any insecurity created as a result of that pressure is going to start inhibiting anyone's ability to form relationships. I didn't have the issue of virginity hanging over me but I did have over 4 years without any success with women, which felt like a lot, lot longer at the time, so I can understand the effects of that on psychological well-being. Self-esteem is vital to making progress in various areas in life because you need confidence to take risks. Unless you are lucky enough to have things handed to you, then you need to take risks to progress and lay the mental foundations to set you up in life.

While some of these selected characters we tend to be presented with are clearly poisonous and hateful, it shouldn't be underestimated, nor should it fail to be noted just how profoundly crippling the feeling of inadequacy can be, how unjust that can feel and just what lengths people will go to to try and square that just to keep on keeping on. I would characterise many of these people as struggling with forms of depression and anxiety disorders - it is actually pretty tragic.

You can see from there how many of these individuals aren't just failures with women but usually across a raft of other areas which also require confidence, assertive behaviour, and the willingness to try and fail. This becomes multiplying factor making them even less appealing to women. When you meet people they are assessing you as a whole, rather than simply your physical attractiveness.

It seems this problem has gone so far with some individuals that the whole concept of meeting someone is so ludicrous, as they are so acutely aware of the predicament, that the concept of the object of their desires becomes fantastical - and become wrapped up fictional ideals and petty mythology.

I can also appreciate that it must be intensely lonely. They don't feel they can talk about the issue with their friends or family, and so go online to seek people like them.

Obviously it is pathetic and in some cases generally horrible to see what the incel community does to people and in turn their ways of biting back at society, but I generally think the correct approach should be to try and understand rather than demanding they should be behaving more normally. By understanding you get past making ludicrous demands of depressed virgins who have fallen down a wormhole and are in a slough of despond and also find yourself noting that this could happen to innocent people. Incels are not comprised entirely of people of sound mind acting with clear individual initiative, it's a set of broken people who feel alienated from the world around them trying to start a campfire consolation and create space in their minds to deal with and rationalise their failure. Unfortunately on this particular subject there was a strong probability that this was going to lead to some severely twatty, pathetic behaviour. I also agree that the communities themselves probably need shaking up in some way, they are very dangerous and convinced in some cases of being morally justified. That deserves to be challenged.

But as for the individuals themselves, do they not deserve a greater degree of patience and rehabilitation? Some of the remarks I read from people (not on this thread, but before now on here and elsewhere) seem to suggest, or outright state that they don't if they are being twats. And I wonder how people can look at themselves and be so convinced they're better when they aren't willing to demonstrate one of the hallmarks of being a decent person - the ability to sympathise on a human level no matter how repugnant the front being put up. It does seem odd that being a mild failure with women will usually earn you sympathy but turning into a piece of wreckage because you couldn't deal with crushing pressure won't. Sympathy shouldn't be turned off like a tap just because you're offended by feral behaviour, in my opinion. They are still humans and can be recovered with time and patience.

Nah they're scummy rapists.

[Twit 2]

On the subject itself (rather than the documentary I haven't watched and probably won't do):

Men in this predicament are battling with the mental pressure applied both externally and internally that if you haven't had sex by x age then there's something wrong with you, that you've failed on some quintessential level at living.

Quite obviously, any insecurity created as a result of that pressure is going to start inhibiting anyone's ability to form relationships. I didn't have the issue of virginity hanging over me but I did have over 4 years without any success with women, which felt like a lot, lot longer at the time, so I can understand the effects of that on psychological well-being. Self-esteem is vital to making progress in various areas in life because you need confidence to take risks. Unless you are lucky enough to have things handed to you, then you need to take risks to progress and lay the mental foundations to set you up in life.

While some of these selected characters we tend to be presented with are clearly poisonous and hateful, it shouldn't be underestimated, nor should it fail to be noted just how profoundly crippling the feeling of inadequacy can be, how unjust that can feel and just what lengths people will go to to try and square that just to keep on keeping on. I would characterise many of these people as struggling with forms of depression and anxiety disorders - it is actually pretty tragic.

You can see from there how many of these individuals aren't just failures with women but usually across a raft of other areas which also require confidence, assertive behaviour, and the willingness to try and fail. This becomes multiplying factor making them even less appealing to women. When you meet people they are assessing you as a whole, rather than simply your physical attractiveness.

It seems this problem has gone so far with some individuals that the whole concept of meeting someone is so ludicrous, as they are so acutely aware of the predicament, that the concept of the object of their desires becomes fantastical - and become wrapped up fictional ideals and petty mythology.

I can also appreciate that it must be intensely lonely. They don't feel they can talk about the issue with their friends or family, and so go online to seek people like them.

Obviously it is pathetic and in some cases generally horrible to see what the incel community does to people and in turn their ways of biting back at society, but I generally think the correct approach should be to try and understand rather than demanding they should be behaving more normally. By understanding you get past making ludicrous demands of depressed virgins who have fallen down a wormhole and are in a slough of despond and also find yourself noting that this could happen to innocent people. Incels are not comprised entirely of people of sound mind acting with clear individual initiative, it's a set of broken people who feel alienated from the world around them trying to start a campfire consolation and create space in their minds to deal with and rationalise their failure. Unfortunately on this particular subject there was a strong probability that this was going to lead to some severely twatty, pathetic behaviour. I also agree that the communities themselves probably need shaking up in some way, they are very dangerous and convinced in some cases of being morally justified. That deserves to be challenged.

But as for the individuals themselves, do they not deserve a greater degree of patience and rehabilitation? Some of the remarks I read from people (not on this thread, but before now on here and elsewhere) seem to suggest, or outright state that they don't if they are being twats. And I wonder how people can look at themselves and be so convinced they're better when they aren't willing to demonstrate one of the hallmarks of being a decent person - the ability to sympathise on a human level no matter how repugnant the front being put up. It does seem odd that being a mild failure with women will usually earn you sympathy but turning into a piece of wreckage because you couldn't deal with crushing pressure won't. Sympathy shouldn't be turned off like a tap just because you're offended by feral behaviour, in my opinion. They are still humans and can be recovered with time and patience.

In the time taken to come up with that, think about how much tittyfucking you could have done.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

It should have gone in Snooker 2019, sorry

[Twed]

I did have over 4 years without any success with women

Only 35 more to go!