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Clever stuff for stupid people

Started by Blue Jam, July 18, 2019, 06:06:38 PM

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chveik

watched Donnie Darko recently, it's basically fine. you don't have to take it seriously. or maybe do take it seriously, who gives a shit, it's just cinema.

Southland Tales is better though.

sponk

I think calling anyone stupid because of their taste in anything is the thing stupid people do to make themselves feel clever.

Twed


phantom_power

Quote from: sponk on July 19, 2019, 03:18:39 PM
I think calling anyone stupid because of their taste in anything is the thing stupid people do to make themselves feel clever.

Well you would think that, you're stupid

The television show Years and Years.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: chveik on July 19, 2019, 03:11:05 PM
watched Donnie Darko recently, it's basically fine. you don't have to take it seriously. or maybe do take it seriously, who gives a shit, it's just cinema.

Southland Tales is better though.

It's fine until you realise most things in it are a ripoff of things elsewhere.

Like the Sparkle Motion woman; shit copy of Nadine Hurley, the least interesting character in Twin Peaks.

Mr_Simnock

QI, that really is the zenith of the matter for me

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on July 19, 2019, 05:09:32 PM
Like the Sparkle Motion woman; shit copy of Nadine Hurley, the least interesting character in Twin Peaks.

Sorry, what?



Zetetic

Actually verifying the existence of an email address in junk sign-up forms (e.g. The Times, free WiFi points).

This doesn't make me enter my email address, it makes me enter a random Hotmail user's email address.

thenoise

Quote from: Mr_Simnock on July 19, 2019, 05:25:48 PM
QI, that really is the zenith of the matter for me

And their spin off podcast (& live show) No Such thing as a fish. The hosts are likeable enough, but it's an hour of 'look what I found on wikipedia' each week. The sort of people who think clever=good at pub quizzes.

PlanktonSideburns

Quote from: gout_pony on July 19, 2019, 01:27:09 PM
IQ tests... aaaaaaaaaaah

Oh and Darren Aronofsky

Darren is really entertaining tho, in the same way this video is




The ball represents film making


Sebastian Cobb

PI was a good film but he used all his tricks on that.

metaltax

Quote from: thenoise on July 19, 2019, 11:00:26 PM
And their spin off podcast (& live show) No Such thing as a fish. The hosts are likeable enough, but it's an hour of 'look what I found on wikipedia' each week. The sort of people who think clever=good at pub quizzes.

Surely QI and associated things are "interesting" rather than "clever"? I'm sure there are some people who think it's on a par with University Challenge but that must be a very small minority?

PlanktonSideburns

Quote from: gout_pony on July 19, 2019, 11:23:41 PM
The Fountain (2006)

Laughed so hard watching that with a friend recently.

Noah and MOTHER! Were a dumass thrillride tho.

José

Quote from: thecuriousorange on July 19, 2019, 04:29:59 PM
The television show Years and Years.

i liked the bit where the farting aliens from doctor who showed up and explained horseshoe theory.

Blue Jam

#108
Quote from: sponk on July 19, 2019, 03:18:39 PM
I think calling anyone stupid because of their taste in anything is the thing stupid people do to make themselves feel clever.

Ha! Fair point, but I was thinking of Stephen Fry's quote about how he's "a stupid person's idea of a clever person" when I started this thread. That's why I deliberately avoided nominating Stephen Fry- he seems a lot more self-aware than the likes of Gervais, Dawkins and Sam Harris.

As for "because of their taste in anything", as an example of that I'd count the sort of person who thinks not watching Love Island or not knowing much about the Kardashians makes them clever. Not watching/knowing something is not an achievement, and it's not a sign of intelligence or superiority. I'd say that actually falls into the category of clever stuff for stupid people.

I have never seen Game Of Thrones, but we have now reached the point where people saying "I have never seen Game Of Thrones" is even more annoying than people who have seen Game Of Thrones and can't stop banging on about it, so I have stopped saying it... gawd, this is a minefield...


TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Blue Jam on July 21, 2019, 01:56:37 PM
As for "because of their taste in anything", as an example of that I'd count the sort of person who thinks not watching Love Island or not knowing much about the Kardashians makes them clever. Not watching/knowing something is not an achievement.

You can consider this also a reply to Sponk.  I've had this argument with you before BJ it is demonstratively bollocks what you have just said.

The act of not watching something, as you seemingly need/are to imply, doesn't make you make you "clever".  If you are going to define clever as general intelligence i.e. broad understanding of the world, time and the materials that make it up then watching shit repetitive reality TV is clearly going to occupy time when you could be learning other things than salacious visualised tabloids.

I've no idea what kind interpretation you have of intelligence.  If it is largely genetic deterministic model that assumes intellectual components are fixed and separate from their environment then you could argue that interactions with some materials and lack of interactions with other materials have no impact on being "clever".

That would be against all evidence that our brains have evolved to learn from our environment.  That means environments do have measurable impacts on how we think, behave and what some people might define as intelligence.

Your argument (and sponk) is that taste is relativistic and therefore not subject assertions of stupidity.  This paradox of relativism (are tastes are relative) and realism (ah but the taste that of criticising someones taste is stupider) is basically the argument of Jordan Peterson.  Stop it.

Of course everyone wants to argue the things they like/enjoy are <insert superlative here>, furthermore they don't want to feel ashamed for them.  It is an argument between the objective rational brain (PFC) and your party time hedonistic lizard brain (nucleus accumbens to precise).

You don't argue that Love Island is shit because people are stupid that watch it, it is shit because of its qualities that make it up.  "Stupid people" (if you like) tend to be less critical/analytical of their environments or the things they consume, that is the relationship that is generally argued for when people say Love Island is shit for cunts.

You might well enjoy Love Island and recognise it is shit for cunts, good, this is called insight and it protects you (and the people that have it) from their environments (it is a learnt ability).  This does not make Love Island the program qualitatively different, that is simply a mode of your experience of it.

Or you can ignore everything I'm saying and never ever have an opinion on anything ever again because everything is relative and every opinion regardless of the qualities or lack of, in them are equally valid.



PS.  I'm no Nietzschean and this doesn't mean I think you are only "clever" if you do suddoku and read Tolstoy every weekday, but this defending of shit things because "i'm loving it" has to stop.  That is not the same as saying people cannot love shit things (my point re: insight).

Blue Jam

I'm not sure what to make of that Trenter- I've never actually seen Love Island or Keeping Up With The Kardashians, but I don't think that makes me clever, and I won't judge people who watch those things. I'll stick to judging people who think After Life is clever and original...

The worst for me is probably people who sneeringly call televised sport "the sportsball"- "Does anyone know a pub in central London where we can avoid the sportsball?" "Apparently there's some sportsball on, I didn't notice, I'm too busy watching  something interesting". I've got a friend who does this and would get pretty angry if you dared to insult her beloved video games. I'm not much of a sports fan (with the big exception of snooker) but I hate the idea that people who take sport seriously are dumb. Sports and video games are just two different forms of escapism...

shh

String theory, or is that stupid stuff for clever people

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Blue Jam on July 21, 2019, 03:11:17 PM
I'm not sure what to make of that Trenter- I've never actually seen Love Island or Keeping Up With The Kardashians, but I don't think that makes me clever, and I won't judge people who watch those things. I'll stick to judging people who think After Life is clever and original...

Maybe not Love Island but there was another reality trashy program you were going on about before so just replace Love Island with that. It is the same argument though and it is well futile mate.

Also so you are now saying you are commenting on stuff that you have never seen yourself and therefore cannot actually have any informed opinion of? Even though you are happy to "judge" people for other things.  Why protect those programs? Ones that you haven't seen no less.

What you watch is irrelevant to the point i'm making, western individualist marketing cottoned on that people have egos and are generally more concerned with themselves than any impact of their actions, all qualitative arguments are sacrificed on the alter of ego, speak not of what might make someone that is "lovin it" consider what they are lovin isn't actually a particularly good thing.

Quote
Sports and video games are just two different forms of escapism...

Yes but there are qualitatively different and cause different outcomes.  Sport will improve your general health whilst gaming might improve your hand eye coordination.  They are not the same.  Staying inside your house is just the same as going outside your house with the roof on.

This is my exact point things are not the same because it is convenient to peoples egos.


PS - i play sports, play video games and watch shit for cunts horror films that are trash by anyones measure. There are other pursuits that would make me more "clever".  That has nothing to do with the impact of any of these things on individuals and society as a whole.  Recognising something is trash does not mean you are bad for liking it, these things are designed for you to like!

Paul Calf

Quote from: Zetetic on July 19, 2019, 07:05:02 PM
Actually verifying the existence of an email address in junk sign-up forms (e.g. The Times, free WiFi points).

This doesn't make me enter my email address, it makes me enter a random Hotmail user's email address.

https://www.mailinator.com/

Andy147

Quote from: Blue Jam on July 21, 2019, 01:56:37 PM
Ha! Fair point, but I was thinking of Stephen Fry's quote about how he's "a stupid person's idea of a clever person" when I started this thread.

Has Stephen Fry said that about himself? When said about him, it's usually attributed to Julie Burchill (though it apparently dates back to at least the 30s when Elizabeth Bowen said it about Aldous Huxley).

lankyguy95

I remember Frank Skinner on his radio show describing knowledge without understanding as "the Stephen Fry approach".

José

Quote from: TrenterPercenter on July 21, 2019, 03:01:15 PM
love island

it's clearly marketed at the same people jeremy kyle was, i.e sneering middle class cunts seeking comparitive affirmation of their superiority complices... but this time they're also horny AF and wanking themselves feverish. i don't regard the target audience it as "dumb" persay, i consider them subhuman worms and prime candidates for forced sterilization.

another good example of something unquestionably stupid that only genuine idiots would parse as 'smart' was my very deliberate choice of words in the first sentence of this post (please forgive me, i'm clearly angling for a column in the guardian).

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: Blue Jam on July 21, 2019, 03:11:17 PM

The worst for me is probably people who sneeringly call televised sport "the sportsball"- "Does anyone know a pub in central London where we can avoid the sportsball?" "Apparently there's some sportsball on, I didn't notice, I'm too busy watching  something interesting". I've got a friend who does this and would get pretty angry if you dared to insult her beloved video games. I'm not much of a sports fan (with the big exception of snooker) but I hate the idea that people who take sport seriously are dumb. Sports and video games are just two different forms of escapism...

EH? If you're not in the slightest bit interested in football, why would you want to sit in an atmosphere where everyone is avidly watching the football?

Zetetic

Quote from: Paul Calf on July 21, 2019, 03:49:14 PM
https://www.mailinator.com/
If you're bothering to develop a system that actually connects to the mailserver for a domain, then you've probably also blacklisted mailinator and its ilk.

(I can't actually check this in the case of my example, since The Times seems to have gone full paywall.)