Death Certificate - Cause of death: withheld

[weekender]

Hello

Happy Friday everyone :)

I work in an industry where we deal regularly with bereavement. 

Believe it or not, I'm actually a fairly decent counsellor for this sort of thing in the real world, my role is to empathise and explain the whole death process, talk people through forms, explain grievance counselling that's available, that sort of thing.

As part of this role, I regularly see death certificates.

Most usually have a 'Cause of Death' and they're usually along the lines of 'Myocardial Infraction' (heart attack), various haemorrhages (an organ failed) or carcinomas (cancer).

If you're a slightly morbid person and want to read the full guidelines that the government sets out, here's a link to their guidance:

https://www.gro.gov.uk/Images/medcert_July_2010.pdf

Yet today, I saw a death certificate which had 'Cause of Death' as 'Withheld' on it, and I genuinely  - in my 20+ years of dealing with deaths - cannot remember an occasion when I've seen the 'Cause of Death' as being 'Withheld'.

So, I thought I'd ask the CaB community - what does this mean?  Why would the cause of death be withheld?

I will leave you, as a group, to decide whether you want this thread to descend into grammatical issues (I can't decide if it should be 'withheld' or 'with-held'), someone supplying me with the actual reason why 'withheld' would be listed as a cause of death on a death certificate, or if you just want to descend into general levity around what may or may not have happened.

Looking forward to your responses.

[Cuntbeaks]

Oxygen withheld?

[metaltax]

Withheld pending further enquiries perhaps? So they're not sure of cause of death but no longer need the body to do further testing. Or the cause of death might impact an ongoing police investigation and it becoming public record could jeopardise that? Summat like that.

[metaltax]

Withheld pending further enquiries perhaps? So they're not sure of cause of death but no longer need the body to do further testing. Or the cause of death might impact an ongoing police investigation and it becoming public record could jeopardise that? Summat like that.

Edit: or maybe it's just so fucking weird that it becoming public knowledge would freak everyone out. Like raped to death by a pack of owls.

[poo]

Bumdozy

[Dr Trouser]

Done a Stephen Milligan?

[bgmnts]

Satanic wank choke ritual.

I did some work for the ONS before and dealing with a lot of intensely depressing stuff.

[Zetetic]

Cause of death determined but public knowledge might be prejudicial to ongoing police investigation is my current best guess.

It's obviously "withheld". Stop inserting hyphens in the middle of word and save them for joining words instead.

[JesusAndYourBush]

Why would the cause of death be withheld?

Did you see the original or a redacted copy?
I'm wondering if the original says "Withheld" - so they'd be withholding it from everyone, or is it just being withheld from you?

Done a Stephen Milligan?

I had that thought too.  Withheld until we think of a plausible lie.

[Ambient Sheep]

It's obviously "withheld".

Agreed.

[Zetetic]

.
I did some work for the ONS before and dealing with a lot of intensely depressing stuff.

Aggregate stats or individual-level. I've always had the impression that most ONS interaction with death certificates themselves - i.e. converting the causes to classification codes - was largely automated (IRIS IIRC?) now.

[Puce Moment]

Without wanting to sound all Biggy about this, is there any chance that it could be something related to the secret services?

Although one would imagine they would simply lie rather than inviting suspicion so I am clearly talking shite.

[weekender]

Did you see the original or a redacted copy?

Original.

Well, a copy of the original anyway.  As I understand it, most death certificates are copies of the actual original one from the coroner, but then certain copies are made to help expedite matters.

As far as I know, I'm not linked to the death in question.

Also, I'm asking these questions for a friend.

[weekender]

Shouldn't 'withheld' be a joining word that is worthy of a hyphen on the grounds that it joins two words - 'with' and 'held' - together?

[Zetetic]

No.

[weekender]

Fine, I'll just go back to stabbing the immigrants and voting for Boris then.

[bgmnts]

Aggregate stats or individual-level. I've always had the impression that most ONS interaction with death certificates themselves - i.e. converting the causes to classification codes - was largely automated (IRIS IIRC?) now.

I think they were coroners reports I can't remember. Lots of "lived alone for 20 years, hanged himself" stuff. Keying in hundreds/thousands of these a day.

[Zetetic]

Ah.



Is there any chance that this is a weird stand-in for a Fact of Death certificate?

[sick as a pike]

edit... thought better of it.

[batwings]

Go out for a bit. If, when you come home, your flat has been ransacked then you'll know somethings up.

[Replies From View]

It means the person was bummed to death by a bigfoot.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Believe it or not, I'm actually a fairly decent counsellor for this sort of thing in the real world, my role is to empathise and explain the whole death process, talk people through forms, explain grievance counselling that's available, that sort of thing.

Hahahahahaha

[PlanktonSideburns]

Thread title would make a great TV movie

[Rev+]

It usually means there's an ongoing inquest but they needed to rattle off the 'yeah, properly dead' notes in order for other things to get moving, boringly enough.

I've seen a few death certificates with 'withheld' on them, but the other month I got one I'd never seen before:  the cause of death was 'old age'.  Fair enough in a broad sense, but there's usually an actual medical failure listed.  This was just 'old fucker, what do you expect?'

[Sebastian Cobb]

That used to be fairly common didn't it?

[Zetetic]

It usually means there's an ongoing inquest but they needed to rattle off the 'yeah, properly dead' notes in order for other things to get moving, boringly enough.

So why isn't it just a Fact of Death certificate? Or have I just misunderstood how that's meant to work.

[Zetetic]

That used to be fairly common didn't it?

There are about 8,000 deaths a year with something like 'old age' given as the underlying cause in England and Wales. (Was about 9,000 in 2013).

Dementia or Alzheimers has become a lot more popular to give as an underlying cause - 47,000 in 2013, 67,000 in 2017. Leading cause (of the groupings the ONS use) since 2015.

(There are about 525,000 deaths per year in England and Wales.)

[Noonling]

It usually means there's an ongoing inquest but they needed to rattle off the 'yeah, properly dead' notes in order for other things to get moving, boringly enough.

I've seen a few death certificates with 'withheld' on them, but the other month I got one I'd never seen before:  the cause of death was 'old age'.  Fair enough in a broad sense, but there's usually an actual medical failure listed.  This was just 'old fucker, what do you expect?'

You sure you don't work for the secret service or something? How can weekender see a billion of these and never come across "withheld" while you've come across a bunch of them? "Withheld" is a strange way of phrasing it too - I'd think "pending inquiry" or something would be more appropriate.

Though I suppose different doctors have slightly different ways of doing things - assuming at least one of you only receive local death certificates (rather than across the nation) perhaps certain doctors use "withheld" more frequently? Or perhaps there's just one doctor in the whole country that persists with this, and they've just upped and moved to weekender's area.

Anyway, if I were weekender I'd google the person's name, look them up on Facebook if they had one. Could be some hints from RIP messages or Facebook groups for the funeral as to what happened (or if no one knows).

[a duncandisorderly]

lizardy aliens, mishap with anal probe which exploded inside the person, government cover-up.

& I'm fighting the urge to write "mis-hap" & "coverup" to annoy people.

[pigamus]

It basically means, "We're not telling Graham how he died because it might upset him."