Author Topic: His Dark Materials (BBC)  (Read 17222 times)

JesusAndYourBush

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Re: His Dark Materials (BBC)
« Reply #210 on: December 02, 2019, 01:48:55 AM »
Will at this early stage. He and his mum were well cast and it feels like it’s a adding a point of interest for the TV audience.

That was the part happening in the real world, yes?(I'm really shit at remembering names.)
I found those bits tedious.  I'm sure they'll have relevance later but I don't know where those bits are going and I just found them a drag.

Re: His Dark Materials (BBC)
« Reply #211 on: December 02, 2019, 02:50:15 AM »
I get that they're short on time and have to cut a lot out but they really fucked up by not having Billy cling onto a dried fish as if it was his daemon, it's what made the scene so sad in the book, and has was even in a shed full of them!
Maybe they thought it was too grim for pre watershed tv?

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Re: His Dark Materials (BBC)
« Reply #212 on: December 02, 2019, 07:48:21 AM »
They showed him being cremated so I don't think grim was off the table. I did think considering the build up to the moment they should have included that. It's not like it would have taken any more time.

NoSleep

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Re: His Dark Materials (BBC)
« Reply #213 on: December 02, 2019, 03:21:26 PM »
The acting/direction seemed particularly sloppy this episode (the lead girl seemingly not understanding some of what she was saying, nor its context; something a director should have overseen). One actor clearly said "substance", where the word in the script must have been "subsistence".

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Re: His Dark Materials (BBC)
« Reply #214 on: December 02, 2019, 03:42:09 PM »
The acting/direction seemed particularly sloppy this episode (the lead girl seemingly not understanding some of what she was saying, nor its context; something a director should have overseen). One actor clearly said "substance", where the word in the script must have been "subsistence".

Pretty sure that was you mishearing/misinterpreting.

NoSleep

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Re: His Dark Materials (BBC)
« Reply #215 on: December 02, 2019, 04:06:00 PM »
I checked it back (because I couldn't believe it) and heard right.

Re: His Dark Materials (BBC)
« Reply #216 on: December 02, 2019, 08:30:41 PM »
NoSleep's right, the word definitely should've been "subsistence". How on earth did that not get noticed throughout the whole production/post-production process?

I was thinking watching the last one how it would be relatively simple, should you be so inclined, to edit out all the "Our World" bits altogether. I assume those are just there to fill the runtime out to a full hour, you'd probably end up with a tighter 45 minutes or so without them.

Re: His Dark Materials (BBC)
« Reply #217 on: December 02, 2019, 09:46:05 PM »
Just did a little experiment with episode 2 and cutting all the Boreal scenes gets it down to a tidier forty-nine and a bit minutes. And nothing of value was lost.

touchingcloth

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Re: His Dark Materials (BBC)
« Reply #218 on: December 02, 2019, 11:10:16 PM »
You should release it as a torrent: the Aurora Boreal-less cut.

purlieu

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Re: His Dark Materials (BBC)
« Reply #219 on: December 02, 2019, 11:24:44 PM »
Of anything, the daemon issue is the one bothering me about this. I understand you're not going to have every character with a fully animated daemon around them at all times because of budget, but I don't think we even saw Pantalaimon until about halfway through last night's episode. Several scenes went by without a single daemon in sight and then Billy's return evoked "where's his daemon?" responses immediately. As others have said, just a few tame animals around the sets would help.

Really though, the lack of the fish moment - regardless of character name - definitely dulled the brutal reality of the scene. The accompanying section of the book was rendered horrifying through the character's desperation, and it was totally lost on screen. Another example of the daemon element being totally downplayed.

In terms of the stuff set in our world, I think it's a mixture of cowardly and wise. I think a cold open on Will's story at the start of series 2 would have been a huge game changer for fans, at the same time I understand opening the plot up to tell viewers that this is a bigger story than just Lyra's own voyages in her own world. If I recall correctly, the book points out that the story will visit other worlds in coming volumes, and thus this is all acting like that. It does seem that The Subtle Knife's opening scene is coming next, however, and I do wonder just how the two plots are going to converge smoothly with three episodes still remaining.

touchingcloth

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Re: His Dark Materials (BBC)
« Reply #220 on: December 02, 2019, 11:54:44 PM »
It’s a shame we won’t have that cold open I think, though I’m not sure it would work as well on screen as it does in the book. Part of what makes it such a strong way to open the book is that it follows a thick book spent following Lyra closely, so it’s disorienting to be presented with this new boy in a new world. Maybe they could have made the programme make us feel the same way, but they’ve already shot their wad showing Will, and regardless I don’t feel at all as invested in the screen Lyra. That’s more a criticism of the medium than the writing - books give much more intimacy with characters.

Inspector Norse

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Re: His Dark Materials (BBC)
« Reply #221 on: December 03, 2019, 06:50:29 AM »
Of anything, the daemon issue is the one bothering me about this. I understand you're not going to have every character with a fully animated daemon around them at all times because of budget, but I don't think we even saw Pantalaimon until about halfway through last night's episode. Several scenes went by without a single daemon in sight and then Billy's return evoked "where's his daemon?" responses immediately. As others have said, just a few tame animals around the sets would help.

Really though, the lack of the fish moment - regardless of character name - definitely dulled the brutal reality of the scene. The accompanying section of the book was rendered horrifying through the character's desperation, and it was totally lost on screen. Another example of the daemon element being totally downplayed.

Yep. This is what I’ve been getting at the whole time. That scene completely lost its impact because they’ve fudged the issue so badly. Even when they were back in the camp and Ma Costa was comforting her son, asking about his daemon, I was just being reminded that she herself does not appear to have one.

They did give an extra a squirrel so they presumably thought that would be enough to emphasise it.

I thought the kid playing Will was good, despite being sure about his early introduction, but they devoted too much time to scene-setting in his story when they could have saved that for later and given Lyra’s story, at this point still the main focus, more time to develop.

Big letdown after a promising improvement last week.

Dex Sawash

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Re: His Dark Materials (BBC)
« Reply #222 on: December 04, 2019, 01:58:13 PM »


Some beautifully shot moments too, such as the mum running her fingers along the wood.

They edit out all the sexy bits for america, i reckon

kalowski

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Re: His Dark Materials (BBC)
« Reply #223 on: December 08, 2019, 09:33:31 PM »
Well, don't fuck with Serafina!

Ja'moke

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Re: His Dark Materials (BBC)
« Reply #224 on: December 08, 2019, 09:49:57 PM »
Easily the best episode so far. A nice little prison-break drama with some genuinely grim moments. I definitely think the series is improving as it moves along.

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Re: His Dark Materials (BBC)
« Reply #225 on: December 08, 2019, 11:05:36 PM »
Bit messy. The setup was good but the breakout didn't establish enough real tension and the Tartars threat wasn't established properly either, they were just goons who in the end literally got zapped by a witch. Who didn't kill Coulter even though presumably she knew she was there.

In the end it felt rushed, an episode frantically trying to get from A to B.
A reminder scene from the other world really made me laugh because there characters in the car are actually waiting for the turn to do something. Very unusual to have such a visual depiction of a starting gun on a narrative going off too soon. Anyway, that was short.

Some of the dialogue really sucked, too.

And, despite the cliffhanger they show Lyra surviving and talking in the 'on next week's episode'?!?!

Lyra herself was the best thing about this episode by a mile.

touchingcloth

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Re: His Dark Materials (BBC)
« Reply #226 on: December 08, 2019, 11:48:40 PM »
^ on the characters in the car thing, that really is rushing to tell Will’s story. Are we going to see Cittàgazze before the series ends?

purlieu

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Re: His Dark Materials (BBC)
« Reply #227 on: December 09, 2019, 10:17:16 PM »
Mostly very good, the horror of the intercision device was reasonably well handled. The breakout was a touch rushed, but overall I enjoyed that. I assume we'll get Will's break-in next week and then him meeting Lyra at the very end of the series. It's fairly daft, but I still understand it in terms of setting up the multiple-worlds thing as a key part of the overall story for potentially fickle viewers.
And, despite the cliffhanger they show Lyra surviving and talking in the 'on next week's episode'?!?!
Given all the prophecy stuff, I doubt anyone believes she'd be killed off before the end of the first series.

Re: His Dark Materials (BBC)
« Reply #228 on: December 09, 2019, 10:56:46 PM »
That was pretty fucking bleak for something weans will be watching.

Johnny Yesno

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Re: His Dark Materials (BBC)
« Reply #229 on: December 15, 2019, 11:19:29 AM »
I was discussing this latest episode with my aforementioned colleague and it turned out the daemon problem still continues. My confusion was with that nurse who had had her daemon cut away but who seemed to be functioning well enough to communicate and carry out duties, yet the experiments continue because apparently none have been successful so far. Neither of us could remember if she was in the book.

My colleague then went on to state that pretty much everyone in the research team was daemon-less. I had assumed, for example, that the south Asian researcher's daemon was just always out of shot. I thought that he felt guilty because what they were doing was wrong, but my colleague is convinced that it's more than that: that it's because he knew what it's like to be cut. Now I don't know what to think.

Re: His Dark Materials (BBC)
« Reply #230 on: December 15, 2019, 01:43:13 PM »
If I remember correctly, the workers in the facility *do* still have theor daemons, but they've still been severed and they're basically the same as their humans - just sort of mechanical and compliant.

That might not be the case, but it might have just been easier to cut out the daemons on screen entirely rather than having to establish different behaviours in daemons when they're barely on-screen anyway.

Inspector Norse

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Re: His Dark Materials (BBC)
« Reply #231 on: December 15, 2019, 03:09:49 PM »
^ on the characters in the car thing, that really is rushing to tell Will’s story. Are we going to see Cittàgazze before the series ends?

There's two episodes left, right? The one that I'll get tomorrow and then one next week.

It's a long while since I read the book of course but I guess this week will be Iorek fighting Iofur and rescuing Asriel and next week will be the Roger incident and the series will finish with both Lyra and Will stepping into new worlds.

Last week's was decent, I liked the Bolvangr interiors and there was finally a bit more daemon action, but yeah still a little confusion there. As always, I've read the books and know what the daemons are all about, and so for me their relative absence is just an irritating distraction, but I wonder how confusing it is for people who are new to the material.

Overall there's still been a slightly rushed and over-expositional feel to everything. They really should have just left out the "our world" stuff and given Lyra's material more room to breathe. If they're trying to follow Game of Thrones in the big fantasy epic stakes, they need to pay more attention to how that series succeeded as much (if not more) on dialogue and character as on action, plot and effects.

Re: His Dark Materials (BBC)
« Reply #232 on: December 15, 2019, 03:35:17 PM »
I think they could left in "our world" if they had given it a couple more episodes.

Ja'moke

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Re: His Dark Materials (BBC)
« Reply #233 on: December 15, 2019, 04:34:52 PM »
I've seen tonight's episode and I feel like it's very rushed. Which is a shame, because I think the series has really improved since around episode four. But this one just brushes past stuff that I thought could have been really interesting if explored in a little more depth.

Johnny Yesno

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Re: His Dark Materials (BBC)
« Reply #234 on: December 15, 2019, 04:49:19 PM »
If I remember correctly, the workers in the facility *do* still have theor daemons, but they've still been severed and they're basically the same as their humans - just sort of mechanical and compliant.

That might not be the case, but it might have just been easier to cut out the daemons on screen entirely rather than having to establish different behaviours in daemons when they're barely on-screen anyway.

I'm not sure it's the case for all the workers - the fan site is a bit vague. However, it agrees with your description of Sister Clara's daemon (IIRC, Nicholas was mentioned but wasn't in this episode at all):

https://hisdarkmaterials.fandom.com/wiki/Sister_Clara_(nurse)

Quote
Her role at Bolvangar was to take care of the children and assess them, particularly when they first arrived at the station. Her dæmon was notably blank and incurious.

It seems I'm criticising the book regarding my point about why they are continuing with the experiments when they appear to have been successful.

I've just remembered that my colleague pointed out in that in the book, the kids release the severed daemons as well as their owners (for want of a better word). That makes more sense than leaving them entirely daemonless, doesn't it?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2019, 05:06:21 PM by Johnny Yesno »

Johnny Yesno

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Re: His Dark Materials (BBC)
« Reply #235 on: December 15, 2019, 05:04:17 PM »
Blimey, I've forgotten so much. This is definitely worth a read to get back up to speed on the implications of people losing their daemons:

https://hisdarkmaterials.fandom.com/wiki/Intercision

(SPOILERS in the last section titled Humans and dæmons)

It pretty much answers my criticism regarding Sister Clara.

touchingcloth

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Re: His Dark Materials (BBC)
« Reply #236 on: December 15, 2019, 08:09:28 PM »
I read a bit on the Radio Times earlier which gave an interesting explanation for Boreal being foregrounded and Will appearing early: Dafne Keen is a child actor, so the restrictions on her working hours mean it would take two or three times as long to film. It also mentioned introducing him to make the next series less jarring in terms of new characters, but I’m less convinced by that argument.

Re: His Dark Materials (BBC)
« Reply #237 on: December 15, 2019, 08:15:53 PM »
It *is* a confusing once - considering when Lyra finds Tony Costa it's all 'where's his daemon?!' it's a bit odd that she'd not comment, at least to Pan, that the adults didn't have daemons, if that was the case

touchingcloth

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Re: His Dark Materials (BBC)
« Reply #238 on: December 15, 2019, 09:18:36 PM »
Just noticed in this week’s opening titles that Lin-Manuel comes wayyyy down the list of credits even though he’s probably the most famous person in it, at least outside of the UK.

MiddleRabbit

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Re: His Dark Materials (BBC)
« Reply #239 on: December 15, 2019, 10:27:22 PM »
Total bab.

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