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His Dark Materials (BBC)

Started by kalowski, July 20, 2019, 09:35:24 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Inspector Norse

Quote from: Thursday on December 22, 2019, 10:31:33 PM
Nobody watch the last episode of the series then?

I guess we were all excited for it.

I only got round to it today because I was away over Christmas without access to HBO Nordic.

A good final episode, one of the strongest overall with (for once) some serious drama and a sense that things previously hidden or only hinted at were now coming to the fore. The scene atop the mountain was well handled - as mentioned above, it's easy to imagine someone without prior knowledge watching and expecting Lyra to save Roger.

I do agree that on the whole things were a bit too stuffily BBC, with the plot veering strangely from hasty exposition to turgid timewasting. The future seasons might get a bit more budget to play with, and at least the move away from Lyra's world will mean an end to the unsatisfying depictions of demons, with only Pan and one or two others hanging around.

A reasonable effort, then, but needs better balance in its storytelling and worldbuilding, and more subtlety and gravity in its themes. Given that they apparently started filming the second series before the first was actually released, it'll be interesting to see what if anything they look at doing better, given that reviews in general were only mildly positive.

Pink Gregory

S2 Trailer

https://youtu.be/FnFsU7SY0Gk

Citagazze looks pretty great.  I think looking back the greatest disappointment for me was the ultra-generic score, and that looks to be continuing.  I suppose with Citagazze we avoid the 'not enough daemons' issue as well, handily.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

It had just enough of the books magic in places to keep me involved but just as much was frustrating, either cackhanded or embrassingly 'bbc production' that you'd really hope they'd have broken out of by now.

All the same, The Subtle Knife was one of my favourite books growing up so I am in this for the long haul.

Hopefully there won't be the treading water in this series in the attempt to overlap the Will storylines. Or to put it more plainly, I hope it's directed and edited better.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Well, this is on!

Watched ep1 yesterday. The season 1 recap was quite clunky, as were the opening few scenes but it started to find its feet towards the end of the episode to the point where the book was starting to flood back to me.

I didn't imagine the spectres of Citagazze being like squirgy spirally things, possibly more personified than that, but I guess they still felt threatening to a degree.

The shots of the city were ok, not quite the sunbaked looming dread I hoped for but fairly eerie. It seems to be influenced by the Cinque Terre rather than the Tuscan hill towns I had in mind. Torre de Angeli looks ominous.

touchingcloth

I'm enjoying this so far, but dying to see this ruddy knife get wielded.

I agree that Citàgazze isn't how I had pictured it. It's portrayed as more of a recent ghost town, whereas in my mind it was...I dunno, in a desert somehow. I recall a mental image of everything being dusty/sandy, and with an orange hue everywhere.

I like how they have updated various bits quite seamlessly, like Lyra dissing Will's iPhone saying arsed, mate, alethiometer.

I'm not sure what I make about the
Spoiler alert
torture in prison
[close]
scene with Scoresby. I'm almost certain that was entirely made up for the series as I have no recollection of any of it from the books, certainly not the
Spoiler alert
abuse at the hands of his father
[close]
stuff, so much so that I keep wondering whether it was all in service of a reference to Hamilton as subtle as the knife:
Spoiler alert
"All I have's my honor / A tolerance for pain / A couple of college credits / And my top-notch brain"
[close]
.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

SPOILERS

The witches stuff has been really crap and hammy so far, sadly. I enjoy Daphne Keen turning the whole screen into ham but even she couldn't pull off that breathy "TELLLL MEEEEEEEEOOOHHHHHHHHHRRRGHHH" thing. And the last episode as their home is destroyed was like sub Marvel/The Hobbit wank. They could have given the witches daemon's better voices too. Those high pitched stilted voices that sound like Keir Starmer but even more wooden. No thanks.

Ep 3 was hmm... treading water in places. As soon as Lyra left the note it was already too signalled that something will go wrong that drags Will in, and likewise when she leaves the bag in the car. Too much deus ex machina. The one thing the books don't have is that serialised feel. I thought overall a TV series would allow space to explore the book's themes more deeply but it is allowing itself to get railroaded by the plotting.

That said, I thought the dark matter professor Malone was great - the character is really well pitched. Super smart, level headed when she needs to be but slightly idiosyncratic too. Lee Scorseby bits good - even when dealing with some dodgy dialogue. Magesterium politics parts ok.

I'm pretty sure The Subtle Knife made a huge play of how the spectres torment the adults so I'm surprised we have barely seen any spectre action. I remember scene where they are plaguing them as they run into the woods outside town. Surely one of the first things they should have done is actualise that threat.

Anyway, I'm overly invested in something that was destined to turn great source material into something bang average with a huge budget.

/SPOILERS

touchingcloth

I wonder if this adaptation is just showing the book to be nigh on impossible to make a satisfying screen adaptation of. Ep3 had a lot of different plots going on simultaneously, because Lyra, Will, Scoresby, Coulter and Malone are all in different places doing their own things.

I think I'm looking forward to seeing how the Mulefa are depicted, but I am quite apprehensive about the Gallivespians and Land of the Dead. It gets all kinds of esoteric in the third book, so I reckon it might turn to hammy dogshit as they try and bring Metatron and the mewling Authority to life.

JesusAndYourBush

I've not read any of the books so it's all new to me... but I couldn't help being a little peeved that the latest episode was all about losing and looking for the alethiometrer, and next weeks episode looks like it's another side quest to obtain a knife to swap for the alethiometer ... JUST GET ON WITH THE STORY FFS!!!

And I wish someone would spank that monkey!

touchingcloth

Quote from: JesusAndYourBush on November 24, 2020, 10:52:39 AM
I've not read any of the books so it's all new to me... but I couldn't help being a little peeved that the latest episode was all about losing and looking for the alethiometrer, and next weeks episode looks like it's another side quest to obtain a knife to swap for the alethiometer ... JUST GET ON WITH THE STORY FFS!!!

And I wish someone would spank that monkey!

No spoilers, but if it follows the book you're in for a surprise re. the knife/alethiometer swap.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Oh yes. This series is book 2, The Subtle Knife, in case that isn't too much of a signal to its significance. No side quest here.

One thing the series has got 100% correct is how much of a cunt the monkey is. Though, I recall the monkey has abuse issues (In daemon terms, is that a reference to self harming/drug abuse?) which are expanded on in the book. Shame the scene with Lee Scorseby missed the opportunity to hint at that.

Dex Sawash


I did a
Spoiler alert
squee
[close]
at
Spoiler alert
red panda
[close]
daemon

wooders1978

Lin Manuel Miranda is badly cast as Lee Scoresby - he's far too much of a wet blanket

Pink Gregory

Quote from: wooders1978 on November 24, 2020, 04:05:24 PM
Lin Manuel Miranda is badly cast as Lee Scoresby - he's far too much of a wet blanket

I prefer him to Sam Elliott because I do see him as a younger feller, but then we never really got to see Sam Elliott so...

mjwilson

Quote from: wooders1978 on November 24, 2020, 04:05:24 PM
Lin Manuel Miranda is badly cast as Lee Scoresby - he's far too much of a wet blanket

Should stick to the day job

(where the day job is writing musicals)

Shoulders?-Stomach!

I think they are both good in the role, though Sam Elliot's grizzled version strikes a more convincing tone. Miranda seems to be performing his own The Young Lee Scorseby series, his smooth soft features not really deserving of a man known to all quarters by the time of Lyra's ascendance. That said, Miranda has dealt with some really trash dialogue well and has been one of the better actors on show.

Dex Sawash

Quote from: wooders1978 on November 24, 2020, 04:05:24 PM
Lin Manuel Miranda is badly cast as Lee Scoresby - he's far too much of a wet blanket

I thought it was just someone doing a bad american accent

touchingcloth

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 24, 2020, 10:04:14 PM
I think they are both good in the role, though Sam Elliot's grizzled version strikes a more convincing tone. Miranda seems to be performing his own The Young Lee Scorseby series, his smooth soft features not really deserving of a man known to all quarters by the time of Lyra's ascendance. That said, Miranda has dealt with some really trash dialogue well and has been one of the better actors on show.

I agree, I like Miranda as Scoresby. I don't think Pullman's particular strength is writing characters, so while I have very strong memories of the settings of the HDM books, I think most characters lend themselves to a range of characterisations and can take on the flavours of however any particular reader interprets them, like tofu.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Just watching the latest one. Decent, if derivative prologue to set it up. Nice touch using Will's mum as the voiceover (though I don't think we were supposed to know or believe it was her speaking)

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Yes that was a decent episode, best of the 4 so far, plenty of progress made with plot and character, tension building.

touchingcloth

I liked it. The Evanescence and Mordor voiceover shirt they're doing with the witches can get to fuck, though. As can fucking Moriarty man who shits up everything he appears in.

studpuppet

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 30, 2020, 10:23:21 PM
Nice touch using Will's mum as the voiceover (though I don't think we were supposed to know or believe it was her speaking)

Also, Hot Priest's 'daemon' has the voice of Phoebe Waller-Waller-oops-Waller-Waller Bridge.

mrfridge

I thought Moriarty bloke was pretty bad but Terrence Stamp was worse. For a while I was convinced that he was acting alone in front of a green screen with the kids superimposed at a later date due to Covid restrictions as his dialogue was so stilted. Shame really as I've been enjoying this series more than the first so far.

Butchers Blind

Agree some of the acting in this would embarrass an amateur dramatics society.  The woman who plays Coulter is alright though.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Oof, Terence Stamp is 82. Looked alright for it.


Shoulders?-Stomach!

Snake dude likes The Lighthouse Family.

Truly evil.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Wow, that was the best episode for quite a while. Certain aspects of the show have lowered my expectations somewhat but that was shorn of most of the weaker elements, mainly tightly edited, tense, gripping.

Some of the themes were explored, you could see for the first time Will and Lyra becoming attracted to one another, even if it was in a post-adrenaline rush way. There was an intensity to the final scenes, a rush of hormones which spoke quite authentically, I thought, especially considering it's a fairly delicate subject.

The obvious child vs parent showdown and actually using the daemons to depict what they represent rather than just talking pets moves the show on quite a bit.

The night time shots of Cittagazze were more effective than the day time ones, and Mary moving into another world was actually hair-raising, there was an effective part of the score at that point too.

She has been easily my favourite character of this series, she is really the focal point for the adult audience as she slips gradually into the fantasy. I really like how boldly they have introduced the fantasy elements as being connected to scientific research and there is an interesting parallel between the credulity of hypnotism/misdirection, or maybe even 'magic' and the mental states involve for Will and Lyra to use the knife and aleithiometer just as Mary communicated to the machine in the Lab.

It finally brought back really, really old memories of reading the book.

Anyway, proper impressed, that was some good tv right there.

touchingcloth

Yep, I was just writing a post declaring this the best episode of both series when you posted yours.

I my memory is hazy on where Malone is at this point in the books, but I remember Will and Lyra's dealing with Latrom being properly thrilling, especially Will's first forays with the knife. The show missed the thrill and the fantasticality of it a bit, but it was still a ruddy good episode.

I remember I didn't properly get into the books until the bits which featured in this episode, with the earlier parts not containing so much of the Dark Materials essence which really gripped me. Hopefully it'll be on the up and up for the show now.

Series 2 is only 7 episodes, 1 was 8. It feels like it will take at least a fourth series to conclude things? There's a LOT still to cover.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

I do worry a lot that the final book is too fantastical for virtually anyone to do it justice on screen, let alone the BBC. How will they deal with that purgatory style wasteland they go through before the end?

Perhaps the reason this episode worked so well was that it was a basic trade-off plot that could have been in a mafia show or some fraught domestic drama, just with the parallel universe dynamics. It neatly fit into an episode without the stresses and strains other episodes have felt under to eother drag a part out or cram too much in. But this is also why The Subtle Knife is my favourite of the three books. There's a balance, notable enthusiasm that leaps off the page of an author totally immersed in his idea and in command of the story.

Still, while they were perhaps not as pushed here, there were moments that really began to bring the quality of the main characters forward and explore themes in a non-Sunday drama procedural way. Good.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Probably worth quietly mentioning how nice and low key they have incorporated modern day life in our world into the story which in the book was ran on a then contemporary late 90s timeline so pre-internet revolution. No shitty crass 'woah' moments, no temptation to do easy culture clash stuff that will date horribly.

JesusAndYourBush

Quote from: JesusAndYourBush on November 24, 2020, 10:52:39 AMAnd I wish someone would spank that monkey!

And my wish came true!

A good episode, but it'd have made more sense for Will to have closed the hole and opened one right next to the alethiometer and just reached through and grabbed it.  Obviously it had to happen that way as a plot device, but it annoys me when people have to act in dumb ways in order to force a storyline in a certain direction.