His Dark Materials (BBC)

[touchingcloth]

Yeah, there were bits where kids were being encouraged to dob on their parents for wrongthink.

I know what you mean about the characters being a bit obviously British, but that didn't strike me as odd at the time. For some reason I've never read the Magisterium as being Roman. I don't know what Pullman has in mind for their backstory - I suppose it's possible that they're supposed to be a version of the Roman church which never lost its power over politics - but in my mind they're like a totalitarian state with aspects of the church bolted on, rather than vice versa.

I don't think it's without precedent for the upper echelons to explicitly be brits, anyway - Coulter is, after all.

[Zetetic]

The Magisterium is very much a bizarro Catholic Church, I thought, where Calvin was the Last Pope (rather than there being any schismatic Reformation). I've assumed that it subscribes to Calvinist predestination and that sort of thing, but I don't know if that's every made explicit.

I don't have a problem with some of the upper echelons being Brits - it's just that having two blokes speaking English was part of the slightly oddly underwhelmingly depiction of the HQ.

but in my mind they're like a totalitarian state with aspects of the church bolted on

Hmm. This has made think a bit about how Pullman doesn't really touch on national governments until we get away from the Magisterium (and to the bears and witches). There's no reason why he should of course - not very relevant thematically or anything - but still interesting how minimised they are, and maybe that's more important to understanding what the Magisterium is supposed to be like.

(I note I've not read everything he's written in the world. The Secret Commonwealth might touch on some of this.)

[touchingcloth]

The Secret Commonwealth might touch on some of this.

I'm halfway through that book now, so all I'll say is that it's expanding on the makeup of the Magisterium. Nothing hugely relevant to this strand of conversation so far, but I'll keep it in mind while reading.

[Zetetic]

Increasingly tangential - I was looking up the cover of The Secret Commonwealth (as a starting point for making a birthday card for someone...) and it looks like the original design (or possibly American?) has something akin to the Hagia Sophia as the backdrop instead of the mountains.

Which is interesting and odd.

[touchingcloth]

Increasingly tangential - I was looking up the cover of The Secret Commonwealth (as a starting point for making a birthday card for someone...) and it looks like the original design (or possibly American?) has something akin to the Hagia Sophia as the backdrop instead of the mountains.

Which is interesting and odd.

I think to comment much on that would be a spoiler.

Different tangent: there's a bit in the book where a character referred to "The Belle Savage". I haven't worked out yet if it's a typo or in some way relevant to the plot.

[Tapiocahead]

Bit of a giveaway as to what you're like if your daemon is a cockroach or a snake or something, what if your daemon is a blue whale?

[Norton Canes]

You have to live inside it

[JesusAndYourBush]

So last night when the woman punched her monkey (not a euphemism) she basically gave herself a punch in the soul!

[Jittlebags]

So last night when the woman punched her monkey (not a euphemism) she basically gave herself a punch in the soul!

I've not read the books, but I thought that may be linked with her being able to be far away from her monkey.

[olliebean]

If I got bored halfway through the first episode and didn't really pay attention to the second half,

1) is the second episode likely to hold my interest better? And if so,
2) will I have to go back and slog through the second half of episode 1 in order to understand what's going on?

[NoSleep]

Having given it the benefit of the doubt and drudged through two episodes I'd say don't bother. I'm giving up.

[touchingcloth]

If I got bored halfway through the first episode and didn't really pay attention to the second half,

1) is the second episode likely to hold my interest better? And if so,
2) will I have to go back and slog through the second half of episode 1 in order to understand what's going on?

1) yes
2) no - there's a recap.

[JesusAndYourBush]

I noticed they had phones etc in the scenes set in London and it looked pretty normal, so does that mean our real world exists alongside the people with soul animals, in the same way that the magical world in Harry Potter exists alongside ours, or does everyone in the world depicted in the story have these soul animals.

[olliebean]

I noticed they had phones etc in the scenes set in London and it looked pretty normal, so does that mean our real world exists alongside the people with soul animals, in the same way that the magical world in Harry Potter exists alongside ours, or does everyone in the world depicted in the story have these soul animals.

From what I've read about it, everyone in the books has a daemon, but nobody who isn't involved in the story seems to have one in the TV version. But either way, why wouldn't they also have phones?

[wooders1978]

This is good in my opinion, which you should trust as I have excellent taste - I can understand (and support as a licence payer) there isn't the budget for every character to have a very expensive cgi daemon knocking about - it's a tad pedantic to cite that as one reason it's poor

[Zetetic]

It's a bit of a problem when it's actually confusing people as to what's being depicted. Glue a stuffed stoat to an extra or something.

everyone in the world depicted in the story have these soul animals.

Everyone in Lyra's world has daemons. That's how souls work in that world.

Daemons are mostly no help from a telecommunications perspective.

[NoSleep]

it's a tad pedantic to cite that as one reason it's poor

It's poor in so many other fundamental ways. Like not being very compelling.

[kalowski]

I noticed they had phones etc in the scenes set in London and it looked pretty normal, so does that mean our real world exists alongside the people with soul animals, in the same way that the magical world in Harry Potter exists alongside ours, or does everyone in the world depicted in the story have these soul animals.

Yes (to your first thought). His Dark Materials takes place in a world similar to ours, but there are other worlds, and so in the show he stepped through a "rip" in the fabric into a different world, that was very much like our own.

[Dex Sawash]

It's poor in so many other fundamental ways. Like not being very compelling.

The dirigibles are ludicrously blunt.

[Inspector Norse]

Just watched the second episode and I thought it was an improvement on the first, but still a bit unevenly paced and lacking in any real sense of what's significant and why some of these things matter.

On the first note, I think that the AV Club review last week had it right, that they're trying to mirror the way the books very cleverly develop and expand the world as Lyra's journey progresses: from the (over-)familiar environs of Oxford last week to London now and, later, of course, elsewhere. So in that sense the fairly mundane nature of the main story so far makes sense; there have been plenty of mentions of other worlds and Dust, though, and so far they've felt flat, not had much impact or mystery.
It was interesting, however, that they chose to introduce our world now rather than waiting until the second series, as Pullman waited until the second book; does that mean some of the plotlines and characters from that book (Boreal, of course, only becomes a major character then as I remember) will appear soon and develop in tandem with Lyra's story, until meeting down the line?

I feel they've really botched the issue of the daemons. It's obvious from reading comments here and elsewhere that a lot of people don't really grasp what they are and although we did get some mention of how people can't separate from their daemons this week, this was undermined by half the bloody cast quite clearly wandering around without their daemons: witness John Faa brandishing his bird in an early scene then setting it loose never to be seen again. And as mentioned, most unnamed characters don't seem to have any daemon whatsoever. As someone who's read the books I understood what was going on, but I still found myself distracted, looking in vain for people's daemons whenever there were more than a couple of characters onscreen. Yes, I can understand that CGI is bloody expensive, but it's so integral to the plot that not using it here risks sinking the whole enterprise.

[wooders1978]

They did try and play it off with a hint that a lot people daemons are "discreet" - evidenced by the snake appearing from the sleeve in the same scene - a find enough explanation for the confines of a tv series I feel

[Inspector Norse]

It was interesting, however, that they chose to introduce our world now rather than waiting until the second series, as Pullman waited until the second book

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I feel this is another huge misstep. Crossing between the worlds should be something astonishing, sonething held back and teased: in the first book, of course, it takes something drastic and unthinkable for it to happen at the end.
Here, though, we get Boreal casually slipping through a portal and sitting in his car with his mobile then chatting with some gormless bloke in a cafe. Again, the mystery and drama are lost.
True, we learn in the second book that he and others have known of and used these portals, but by then we've got the big moments and the world is growing more and more, and it's easy to accept (and indeed, is well-linked to the twist about Will's dad.

[popcorn]

Yeah I don't think it's pedantic to say they ought to have got the daemons right - one of the most important parts of the HDM world (and critical to its metaphors). Maybe there were insurmountable technical or budget problems but that doesn't make the end result less flawed.

[Ja'moke]

Dafne Keen and Ruth Wilson are so good in this that they're elevating the somewhat weak material (his weak material).

[JesusAndYourBush]

But either way, why wouldn't they also have phones?

Because other parts looked a bit like they were set in some past era.

there isn't the budget for every character to have a very expensive cgi daemon knocking about

They could have asked for extras who had a pet they could bring along, dog, tame owl, etc

[popcorn]

They could have filmed it in a zoo.

[Thursday]

Mmm I'm a bit confused about the depiction of the world, because parts of it look a lot more like our world than it should anyway, Fantasy London just looks like normal London unless a specific place calls for something. Although the more I think about it, the more I realise this would need an incredibly high budget to do it properly.

Still I thought the American investment would it make look less like a basic British Drama.

[Inspector Norse]

Still I thought the American investment would it make look less like a basic British Drama.

It does have typically BBC production values. Something sterile and stiff about it.

On the fantasy world/real world thing, though, the Oxford and London in Lyra's world are similar to those in our "real" world but technologically not as advanced, plus there's the daemons and that.
The modern bits when Boreal was wandering around and there were cars and phones and coffee were in our "real" world - they did rather emphasise his going back and forth through the portal to make sure that was clear, I thought?

[touchingcloth]

I thought that too. I was a bit surprised that they had chosen to make movements between worlds or the suggestion that Laura's world isn't just similar to ours but exists alongside it so early on. And the revelation about Asriel.

[Inspector Norse]

I thought that too. I was a bit surprised that they had chosen to make movements between worlds or the suggestion that Laura's world isn't just similar to ours but exists alongside it so early on. And the revelation about Asriel.

As I wrote above - I think it's a big mistake to do that so early on, robbing the plot of a lot of its sense of wonder and strangeness.