Author Topic: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever  (Read 20887 times)

Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #150 on: August 21, 2019, 06:32:34 AM »
I'm guessing this is still a negotiating tactic, letting Sony feel the negative PR burn they will get if it does happen.

Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #151 on: August 21, 2019, 07:20:26 AM »
Yeah, people forget how little-known Iron Man and Thor (the comic book character rather than Norse god) were before the Marvel films. Thor was seen as a bit of a joke wasn't he? Certainly not someone that would translate into film.

Hmm. I would say Hulk, Captain America, Wolverine, Spiderman and Wolverine were all somewhat familiar to normal non geeky people. Certainly men anyway. But Fiege made them much more famous. And the fact that he helped make the likes of Antman, Hawkeye and Vision characters people could recognise and potentially make standalone films out of is an impressive feat.

And the sheer spectrum of Marvel offerings helps as well. Films, games, TV shows, toys, Youtube interviews, extended universes and story lines etc etc.

The phases they do take so long they remind me of my mortality. Like assuming they complete the next phase, I'll be 50 years old at least. I might not even live to see it. Makes you think, probably.

Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #152 on: August 21, 2019, 08:22:56 AM »
People are going mental over this btw, I like the films but Marvel fans can be fucking scary.
Yeah - I like the films, but there not being another Spider-Man is still a fairly minor part of life. I'll never quite understand that level of "fandom", or whatever you want to call it.

I'm guessing this is still a negotiating tactic, letting Sony feel the negative PR burn they will get if it does happen.
Well, like I said, if Marvel put a lot of future storyline stock in Spider-Man, and Sony know this, then it surely is a tactic rather than "I'm taking my ball and going home".

Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #153 on: August 21, 2019, 08:27:48 AM »
I must say this is all pretty funny.

Its not art is it? It's all businessmen and negotiating rights and marketing and demographics and FUCK OFF.

Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #154 on: August 21, 2019, 09:16:00 AM »
I imagine they will come to some agreement at some point soon. Sony would be mad to lose the most commercially and critically successful version of Spiderman. What are they going to do, reboot it again? Where do they stand legally on using Tom Holland's version? And where would Marvel stand if they just hired Holland to play a young super hero in the Spiderman mould?

samadriel

  • WHA' HAPPEN?
Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #155 on: August 21, 2019, 10:27:11 AM »
I imagine they will come to some agreement at some point soon. Sony would be mad to lose the most commercially and critically successful version of Spiderman. What are they going to do, reboot it again? Where do they stand legally on using Tom Holland's version? And where would Marvel stand if they just hired Holland to play a young super hero in the Spiderman mould?

"Tom Holland will continue to play Spider-Man, and Homecoming and Far From Home director Jon Watts is expected to have two more movies coming."

I expect they'll sort this out eventually, as it's a shit outcome for both companies.  I'm reminded of when James Gunn got chucked under the bus -- the decision was too flat-out stupid to stand for long.

Bad Ambassador

  • Sit down, Mario!
Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #156 on: August 21, 2019, 10:30:38 AM »
I must say this is all pretty funny.

Its not art is it? It's all businessmen and negotiating rights and marketing and demographics and FUCK OFF.

No, you fuck off.

Nowhere Man

  • Life is just a bowl of life cereal
Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #157 on: August 21, 2019, 10:47:31 AM »
It doesn't cease to amaze me how many people are forgetting how greedy Disney is in this scenario. Why should Sony be expected to go 50/50 on profits from the movies when they don't receive any profit on merchandising and they're the ones financing all of them in the first place?

Yet fanboys are honestly angry that Disneys deal isn't automatically agreed too, I've even heard some joke that they should buy out Sony. FUCK encouraging one of the greediest companies in the industry to own even more shit or get their way just because it's Disney.

purlieu

  • Gertrude Stein said that's enough.
Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #158 on: August 21, 2019, 11:00:31 AM »
The problem is, 50% was Disney's opening shot - in a final negotiation they wouldn't have got anywhere near as much. But Sony just blanket turned them down and closed the door, rather than finding a point that would make both parties happy.

There's a good chance it'll get sorted, anyway.

Bad Ambassador

  • Sit down, Mario!
Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #159 on: August 21, 2019, 11:28:08 AM »
It doesn't cease to amaze me how many people are forgetting how greedy Disney is in this scenario. Why should Sony be expected to go 50/50 on profits from the movies when they don't receive any profit on merchandising and they're the ones financing all of them in the first place?

They aren't. Disney offered a 50/50 split in financing.

Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #160 on: August 21, 2019, 12:22:36 PM »
I'm guessing Sony entered into this whole thing thinking they could use reflected MCU popularity it to relaunch their own Spidey franchise. They do seem to be a studio that's pretty blind to the importance of modern PR though and beyond a potential dropoff in quality I could well see a backlash to this meaning such a film badly underperforms.

BritishHobo

  • That is a really reductive impression
Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #161 on: August 21, 2019, 01:55:31 PM »
I think it's fucking stupid and fucking funny. A whole bumload of people who think one corporation is evil and one corporation is good just because the good one makes more polished superhero films. Do they really think if Disney were in Sony's position they would hand-off such a lucrative property out of the kindness of their hearts?

mothman

  • I don't know why
Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #162 on: August 21, 2019, 02:08:30 PM »
They’ll sort it out. The gimmick that made the third iteration of the character (in less than 15 years) unique was his links to the MCU and membership of the Avengers. Still not seen Far From Home, probably missed my chance now (plus 14yo daughter has thing for TH, so she’s annoyed about it too), but I presume it’s done OK.

But not gonna get upset about it. If there’s no rapprochement, then, whatevs. Sony can just go back to making S-M movies of the Andrew Garfield level of quality.

Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #163 on: August 21, 2019, 02:11:00 PM »
I think it's fucking stupid and fucking funny. A whole bumload of people who think one corporation is evil and one corporation is good just because the good one makes more polished superhero films. Do they really think if Disney were in Sony's position they would hand-off such a lucrative property out of the kindness of their hearts?

I don't think anyone other than some loons actually think that. I think most people just really like the last two Spiderman films and don't trust Sony to match their quality without Marvel/Disney. They are expressing that opinion though hyperbolic gifs and shit. Most people don't give a shit about the corporations behind it all, just what the end product will be like

Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #164 on: August 21, 2019, 02:28:47 PM »
But not gonna get upset about it. If there’s no rapprochement, then, whatevs. Sony can just go back to making S-M movies of the Andrew Garfield level of quality.

Into The Spider-Verse was done without any Marvel Studios assistance, so I don't presume that the quality would suddenly drop back to where it used to be.

Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #165 on: August 21, 2019, 03:02:32 PM »
I think it's fucking stupid and fucking funny. A whole bumload of people who think one corporation is evil and one corporation is good just because the good one makes more polished superhero films. Do they really think if Disney were in Sony's position they would hand-off such a lucrative property out of the kindness of their hearts?

Seems moreso people like the entertaining films and don't like the less entertaining ones.

As I understand in the original agreement was Marvel get to use the character in their Avengers films and Sony get Marvel people to produce theirs and link them into the MCU. Now your clearly seeing the character pushed towards mostly having his own films I don't think its surprising Marvel want to co finance them.

I would imagine if the situations were reversed Sony would never have made the deal in the first place fearing the rival studio would do what they seem to be trying to.

Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #166 on: August 21, 2019, 11:39:30 PM »
You know those post credit scenes? Do people ever leave before them now? I've this idea in my head that the majority of people don't give a fuck anymore but stick around outta social pressure (i.e. the sense that other people would be judging them as foolish for not realising there's gonna be something after the credits) and would be glad to see them gone.


I haven't been to a superhero film since the Dark Knight Rises, mind, so I've no clue what actually happens.

Famous Mortimer

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Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #167 on: August 22, 2019, 01:10:56 PM »
I don't think anyone other than some loons actually think that. I think most people just really like the last two Spiderman films and don't trust Sony to match their quality without Marvel/Disney. They are expressing that opinion though hyperbolic gifs and shit. Most people don't give a shit about the corporations behind it all, just what the end product will be like
I thought this was the case too, but I've read too many people calling out Sony as pieces of shit for not agreeing to it. I mean, most of them are teenagers (physically or emotionally) but the feeling is still there.

I'd like for there to be less of all of it. Imagine when, say, "Return of the Jedi" came out, if Lucas went "right, we're having 17 different limited TV series, an endless supply of movies, and everything's linked". There's no space for anything. I'm not sure anyone gives a shit about the quality of even the most recent Marvel movies, it's all about the next thing, and the next thing.

Or maybe I'm talking out of my arse. But who has the time for all these products?

Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #168 on: August 22, 2019, 01:24:00 PM »
You know those post credit scenes? Do people ever leave before them now?

I saw Endgame and left as soon as Robert Downey's credit came up and I also leave as soon as the film finishes usually. I mean, when the film's finished it's finished. I'm not sitting around with a load of nerds waiting for a post credit scene, I'm busy. If I'm curious I can torrent it later and see it that way. Endgame was just the sound of a hammer hitting an anvil anyway. Imagine hanging around for 10 minutes for  that.

Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #169 on: August 22, 2019, 01:27:40 PM »
I haven't been to a superhero film since the Dark Knight Rises, mind, so I've no clue what actually happens.

In my experience about half the people stay rooted to the spot and the other half fuck off out of it because the film's finished.

Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #170 on: August 22, 2019, 01:33:39 PM »
Yeah, I assume they're going to fit him out with some super soldier serum or something ASAP.

Which begs the question why they don't just give super soldier serum to everyone. Imagine Doctor Strange jacked up on super juice. He'd be badass.

Mister Six

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Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #171 on: August 22, 2019, 01:35:12 PM »
Into The Spider-Verse was done without any Marvel Studios assistance, so I don't presume that the quality would suddenly drop back to where it used to be.

Sony Pictures Animation is a different studio to the live action lot, and much, much better. Although they cheat by mostly just getting Lord and Miller to make stuff.

samadriel

  • WHA' HAPPEN?
Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #172 on: August 22, 2019, 01:47:23 PM »
Sony Pictures Animation is a different studio to the live action lot, and much, much better. Although they cheat by mostly just getting Lord and Miller to make stuff.

Oh, bugger, Spider-Verse was the only sign of Sony doing a good job on their own.  These overfed rich fuckers really have to sort out their differences.

purlieu

  • Gertrude Stein said that's enough.
Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #173 on: August 22, 2019, 02:20:22 PM »
I'm not sure anyone gives a shit about the quality of even the most recent Marvel movies
???

Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #174 on: August 22, 2019, 02:40:51 PM »
The (slightly) weird thing is that Marvel seemed to be going out of their way to make Spider-Man a big deal in their own films. On the one hand it's not surprising - Spider-Man is easily the best solo character in the Marvel Comics line - but considering they didn't actually own him and there was zero chance of Sony ever giving him back completely, having his story arc basically be about positioning him as the replacement to Iron Man now seems like someone somewhere wasn't thinking things through.

On the other (third) hand, someone else somewhere pointed out that the most recent Spider-Man movie actually leaves the character (after the final post-credit sequence) in a place where having him isolated / hiding from the rest of the Marvel universe makes sense.

Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #175 on: August 22, 2019, 03:08:00 PM »
Supposedly the credits sequence in that film was actually changed from introducing Norman Osbourne and various lackeys like Vulture to what we got, perhaps an indication things might be going sour with Sony?

At present you could say they've set him up to potentially be a leading character in a wider story but haven't pulled the trigger on it yet.

Mister Six

  • Ridiculously teacakes
Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #176 on: August 22, 2019, 03:19:54 PM »
having his story arc basically be about positioning him as the replacement to Iron Man now seems like someone somewhere wasn't thinking things through.

I'm not sure that's where they're going with it. A more logical progression (I think) would have been having him throw off the burden of expectation and reliance on Stark's legacy and become his own guy. I think Feige said he wanted Marvel to do nine films - three in school, three in uni and three as an adult - and I can't imagine that vision included essentially the same thing weeo getting now, only more so.

Also, while the screeching at Sony is a bit much, I can understand the frustration for people who have spent years looking forward to seeing all their heroes together on the big screen now having that taken away (especially as modern superhero comics are almost entirely shit).

That said, having Spidey be Spidey without all the Stark hangovers would be pretty great - I wasn't happy with quite how reliant Far From Home was on Stark tech and all that. Sadly the knowledge that it would be Sony overseeing that kills the excitement a bit.

Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #177 on: August 22, 2019, 03:53:36 PM »
On the other (third) hand, someone else somewhere pointed out that the most recent Spider-Man movie actually leaves the character (after the final post-credit sequence) in a place where having him isolated / hiding from the rest of the Marvel universe makes sense.
I pretty much thought that the second post-credits scene allowed a huge "get out of jail free" card for the character, in terms of the world knowing Peter Parker = Spider-Man. But you're right that they can now use that to explain him being AWOL until the suits come to some kind of agreement again.

Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #178 on: August 22, 2019, 04:28:53 PM »
I can't imagine that vision included essentially the same thing weeo getting now, only more so.

Vision was killed in Infinity War.

Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #179 on: August 22, 2019, 05:43:45 PM »
I'm not sure that's where they're going with it. A more logical progression (I think) would have been having him throw off the burden of expectation and reliance on Stark's legacy and become his own guy. I think Feige said he wanted Marvel to do nine films - three in school, three in uni and three as an adult - and I can't imagine that vision included essentially the same thing weeo getting now, only more so.

Also, while the screeching at Sony is a bit much, I can understand the frustration for people who have spent years looking forward to seeing all their heroes together on the big screen now having that taken away (especially as modern superhero comics are almost entirely shit).

That said, having Spidey be Spidey without all the Stark hangovers would be pretty great - I wasn't happy with quite how reliant Far From Home was on Stark tech and all that. Sadly the knowledge that it would be Sony overseeing that kills the excitement a bit.

Although it feels like this version of the character depends on the idea of being a small fish in a big pond.

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