Author Topic: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever  (Read 12444 times)

Spiteface

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Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #120 on: July 27, 2019, 03:16:36 PM »
Honestly, the lineup of "Phase 4" sounds rather unappealing.

I'll likely go and watch a good few of them, but maybe it's because Marvel shot their load for 10 years and now we're getting less "big" name characters & properties. If the tone is right, I'd be into a Blade reboot.

Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #121 on: July 27, 2019, 03:28:17 PM »
I suspect part of it is there looking to keep their powder dry, introduce some new characters and run more stand alone films for awhile whilst their at the peak of their popularity then shift back towards a grander narrative when interest starts to tail off.

Mister Six

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Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #122 on: July 27, 2019, 05:28:10 PM »
Honestly, the lineup of "Phase 4" sounds rather unappealing.

I'll likely go and watch a good few of them, but maybe it's because Marvel shot their load for 10 years and now we're getting less "big" name characters & properties. If the tone is right, I'd be into a Blade reboot.

The only big characters they ever had were Hulk and Captain America. The rest they had to build up from scratch.

The scaling down is a deliberate move, so they can build back up to another crescendo - probably another 10 years from now. Smart move. Try out some new characters, see which ones audiences respond to, and let momentum pick up from there. Trying to do some big cataclysmic character-packex event every couple of years leads to X-Men-style burnout.

purlieu

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Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #123 on: July 27, 2019, 05:56:58 PM »
Yeah, one of the things that they've been repeatedly praised for - in this thread as much as anywhere - is taking characters the general public have little to no awareness of and making them household names.

If they'd started with Hulk, Spider-Man, X-Men, Captain America and Daredevil films in Phase 1 then the up-coming films might seem a bit low-key, but I have faith they can do interesting things with the characters they're introducing.

Famous Mortimer

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Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #124 on: July 27, 2019, 07:38:21 PM »
where in Phase 4 of this shitfest does ROM, Dazzler, Tomb Of Dracula or THE DEADLY HANDS OF KUNG FU fit in
I'm two pages back and this will have already been answered probably, but Dazzler was in the last X-Men movie, I think?

Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #125 on: July 28, 2019, 05:14:07 AM »
I'm two pages back and this will have already been answered probably, but Dazzler was in the last X-Men movie, I think?


Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #126 on: July 28, 2019, 05:25:14 AM »


You seem to have posted a screenshot from Xanadu (1980)?

samadriel

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Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #127 on: July 28, 2019, 07:10:22 AM »
I'm two pages back and this will have already been answered probably, but Dazzler was in the last X-Men movie, I think?

Yeah, she's one of the mutant kids around the campfire in Dark Phoenix.

Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #128 on: July 28, 2019, 07:38:55 AM »
You seem to have posted a screenshot from Xanadu (1980)?

Not enough glowing.

kidsick5000

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Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #129 on: July 28, 2019, 02:16:06 PM »


She was referenced in Apocalypse  (remember when everything stops for a slew of 80s references at the mall?) l

Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #130 on: July 29, 2019, 09:55:30 AM »
Yeah, one of the things that they've been repeatedly praised for - in this thread as much as anywhere - is taking characters the general public have little to no awareness of and making them household names.

If they'd started with Hulk, Spider-Man, X-Men, Captain America and Daredevil films in Phase 1 then the up-coming films might seem a bit low-key, but I have faith they can do interesting things with the characters they're introducing.

Yeah, people forget how little-known Iron Man and Thor (the comic book character rather than Norse god) were before the Marvel films. Thor was seen as a bit of a joke wasn't he? Certainly not someone that would translate into film.

Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #131 on: July 29, 2019, 10:06:42 AM »
Yeah, people forget how little-known Iron Man and Thor (the comic book character rather than Norse god) were before the Marvel films. Thor was seen as a bit of a joke wasn't he? Certainly not someone that would translate into film.
Iron Man was a lot more familiar than Cap America to me, at least, due to him having his own cartoon series in the 1990s.

Kelvin

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Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #132 on: July 29, 2019, 12:37:55 PM »
I don't think how well these charachters were (or weren't) known back at the start is all that relevent to a discussion about virtually unknown charachters getting the focus moving forward.

By Endgame, Ironman, Cap and Thor were the lynchpins of the Marvel series, and collassally popular. That's probably how audiences remember them at this point; the Marvel superstars.

I have to imagine that, after years of seeing those charachters on screen and perceiving them as iconic, it's going to have an impact to go back to so many unknowns, and starting a whole new overarching story. That Marvel srarted that way is beside the point. That's not where they've been for a decade, and expectations have shifted.

There is certainly nothing on that list to interest a casual Marvel viewer like myself. The big names are gone, the main story is over, and several of the newer charachters they're leading with, like Dr Strange and especially Captain Marvel, annoy the fuck out of me. I can't claim to speak for anyone else, but I would be surprised if a decent number of more casual fans didn't see the new slate as fairly uninspiring after years of films starring iconic charachters (even if that is only a recent development), and with the central story arc now complete, it does feel like a logical stepping off point. Maybe Spiderman, Thor and Guardians are enough to keep the momentum up, but it does feel like they need to up the ante considerably before this new slate is over.

AsparagusTrevor

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Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #133 on: July 29, 2019, 01:11:14 PM »
Would be quite funny in the Blade film if someone says "didn't you used to run that club in Harlem?"
It would be funny if they brought the bereaved mother from Civil War back in Blade.

Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #134 on: July 29, 2019, 01:58:48 PM »
I don't think how well these charachters were (or weren't) known back at the start is all that relevent to a discussion about virtually unknown charachters getting the focus moving forward.

By Endgame, Ironman, Cap and Thor were the lynchpins of the Marvel series, and collassally popular. That's probably how audiences remember them at this point; the Marvel superstars.

I have to imagine that, after years of seeing those charachters on screen and perceiving them as iconic, it's going to have an impact to go back to so many unknowns, and starting a whole new overarching story. That Marvel srarted that way is beside the point. That's not where they've been for a decade, and expectations have shifted.

There is certainly nothing on that list to interest a casual Marvel viewer like myself. The big names are gone, the main story is over, and several of the newer charachters they're leading with, like Dr Strange and especially Captain Marvel, annoy the fuck out of me. I can't claim to speak for anyone else, but I would be surprised if a decent number of more casual fans didn't see the new slate as fairly uninspiring after years of films starring iconic charachters (even if that is only a recent development), and with the central story arc now complete, it does feel like a logical stepping off point. Maybe Spiderman, Thor and Guardians are enough to keep the momentum up, but it does feel like they need to up the ante considerably before this new slate is over.

Pretty much every Marvel film outside The Avengers films (and films starring the original Avengers) has taken little known characters and made them successful (Spiderman aside). Ant Man, the GoTG, Dr Strange and Captain Marvel were all successful critically and commercially despite this. You might be right that people aren't eager for these films, though I think you are wrong and my friends and children are all excited for one or more of these films, but once the marketing and trailers kick into gear there is nothing to suggest the same might not be true of these characters as has happened to the aforementioned ones

Mister Six

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Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #135 on: July 29, 2019, 04:00:23 PM »
I don't think how well these charachters were (or weren't) known back at the start is all that relevent to a discussion about virtually unknown charachters getting the focus moving forward.

By Endgame, Ironman, Cap and Thor were the lynchpins of the Marvel series, and collassally popular. That's probably how audiences remember them at this point; the Marvel superstars.

I have to imagine that, after years of seeing those charachters on screen and perceiving them as iconic, it's going to have an impact to go back to so many unknowns, and starting a whole new overarching story. That Marvel srarted that way is beside the point. That's not where they've been for a decade, and expectations have shifted.

I think it's absolutely relevant because it shows that - time after time - they have taken characters with little-to-no wider public profile and made audiences care about them and want to see more. And that's continued well past the original Avengers line-up. Even characters whose film don't perform as well as the others, like Ant-Man, make 3-4 times their budget back.

Marvel is consciously dialling things back for this new "phase", allowing audience enthusiasm to build up again. But they're starting with Thor, the Guardians, Spider-Man, Black Panther and Captain Marvel. The latter two have both broken through the billion dollar barrier with their first starring movies; Spider-Man just hauled in more than a billion with Far From Home, and Thor and Guardians both made more than $850 million each with their last films.

They're also - at some point - introducing a gaggle of established characters into the MCU: Blade, The Fantastic Four and the X-Men.

And they still have a Black Widow movie (prequel, presumably) as well as established mid-tier heroes Doctor Strange and Ant-Man on the roster.

Basically, they're going to be fine.

My only concern is that I think Black Panther and Captain Marvel are a bit bland (although both could be given a Ragnarok-style overhaul in future films) and this current roster doesn't seem quite as well-balanced, personality wise, as the original Avengers team. But they've got another five years at least to work out the links in that.

Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #136 on: July 29, 2019, 04:26:15 PM »
My only concern is that I think Black Panther and Captain Marvel are a bit bland (although both could be given a Ragnarok-style overhaul in future films) and this current roster doesn't seem quite as well-balanced, personality wise, as the original Avengers team. But they've got another five years at least to work out the links in that.

Boseman I think actually plays the character very well and could make a good replacement for Evans even if I felt his own film was a bit bland, Cap Marvel thus far seems a bit bland and dependant on snark but was saved by a film with decent supporting roles.

purlieu

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Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #137 on: July 29, 2019, 05:41:44 PM »
I have to imagine that, after years of seeing those charachters on screen and perceiving them as iconic, it's going to have an impact to go back to so many unknowns, and starting a whole new overarching story.
Which would be true if Doctor Strange, Black Panther, Guardians of the Galaxy, etc. hadn't become hugely successful despite being introduced well after the main Avengers were already popular. Marvel are currently at a point that they can take risks and introduce lots of characters and get good returns. If they throw in some shit films then yes, things could fall apart, but if the introductions are all very well handled, there's no reason to imagine they won't be as successful as Captain Marvel.

Kelvin

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Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #138 on: July 29, 2019, 05:50:29 PM »
My point was not that Marvel can't make unknown charachters popular - they obviously can - but more that they did so by carrying people along in the excitement around the wider series, which was snowballing in popularity.

In contrast, I imagine that the excitement around the series has been dampened by the loss of It's two biggest tentpole charachters and the end of its decade long arc.

I don't think Marvel is in trouble, but surely you can see why moving forward, a portion of their audience may now drop off. I've already acknowledged that Spider-Man, Guardians, and maybe the xmen might be enough to keep up the momentum. I'm.just not convinced the films will feel like such essential viewing for so many people in the short term.

Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #139 on: July 29, 2019, 05:53:04 PM »
After watching Captain Marvel for the first time, my main complaint was that the hero was a bit blank, which I wasn't sure was down to Larson's acting or not being given much to work with - agree that the film was saved by the other roles. On rewatching Black Panther for the first time a couple of days ago, I think there was an element of the same complaint (Killmonger's motives were sympathetic, even if his methods were not, and you got the impression that Serkis, Gurira and Duke had a lot of fun with their roles).

I was a bit surprised they didn't announce any plans for the Fantastic Four, as I'm not sure they have much to build a "New Avengers" type tea around, bar Spider-Man and Black Panther. Blade, for instance, isn't much of a team player, though it's a fairly safe move by Marvel to do the film as a lot of people know the character from the Snipes films. 

As an aside, over the last few months I've rewatched all of the MCU films up to and including Infinity War with the other half, who hadn't seen any of them and only really knew of Spider-Man before (from previous films). She was incredibly upset when Dr Strange was dusted, and surmised that the only reason there's been a subsequent Spider-Man film is because Tony Stark somehow builds/creates another Spidey.

Mister Six

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Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #140 on: July 29, 2019, 06:38:35 PM »
Boseman I think actually plays the character very well and could make a good replacement for Evans even if I felt his own film was a bit bland, Cap Marvel thus far seems a bit bland and dependant on snark but was saved by a film with decent supporting roles.

I think Larson is a great, charismatic actress and did a lot with a little. Boseman too. My issues are entirely with their scripts. BP was interesting in Civil War because his mission of vengeance was compelling; in BP his character felt less driven and more placid.

Compare that with Thor (slightly buffoonish fish out of water), Stark (arrogant, self-destructive genius), Cap (conflicted man out of time dealing with moral ambiguity) and Banner (repressed ragehead always on the verge of going mental and killing people). I get the feeling that Marvel were scared to make their first female and black film protagonists too flawed for fear of "woke" anger online. Hopefully now we're getting a Black Widow film and Blade's in the mix, as well as a black Captain America, they'll ease up a bit and let BP and Captain Marvel have a few flaws.

Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #141 on: July 29, 2019, 07:33:28 PM »
Falcon as the new Cap is stupid though. He doesn't actually have any super powers apart from robotic wings and now he has a big shield.

Mister Six

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Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #142 on: July 29, 2019, 07:35:24 PM »
Yeah, I assume they're going to fit him out with some super soldier serum or something ASAP.

Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #143 on: July 29, 2019, 09:03:46 PM »
My point was not that Marvel can't make unknown charachters popular - they obviously can - but more that they did so by carrying people along in the excitement around the wider series, which was snowballing in popularity.

In contrast, I imagine that the excitement around the series has been dampened by the loss of It's two biggest tentpole charachters and the end of its decade long arc.

I don't think Marvel is in trouble, but surely you can see why moving forward, a portion of their audience may now drop off. I've already acknowledged that Spider-Man, Guardians, and maybe the xmen might be enough to keep up the momentum. I'm.just not convinced the films will feel like such essential viewing for so many people in the short term.

The flip side of that those is that Cap and Stark have appeared in a lot of films and were starting to feel stale and so having a new roster of characters will freshen things up a bit

kidsick5000

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Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #144 on: July 30, 2019, 06:05:20 AM »
I reckon they're aware of diminishing returns.
The next set of phases will be shorter. Tighter.
They're even more in control of their domain.
Who knows what will hit big.

Each success mindwipes so many as to how daring their choices were, in particular...

Cap America – outsider of US, minimal cache - played by goofy Johnny Storm/whipped cream guy from Not Another Teen Movie/other failed comics properties
Guardians Of The Galaxy – WHO!? directed by a Troma guy - plus the true sign of an absolute flop: NO reviewer screenings before release.

Thor's third film was seen as a last gasp. Something too embarassing to pull. He had become a utility member of The Avengers. One they couldn't work out what to do with. Partially cut out of Ultron, missing from Civil War. Ragnarok was bumped from summer to a winter release.
At first, they were happy to let Alan Taylor direct again.

Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #145 on: July 30, 2019, 09:19:49 PM »
I was a bit surprised they didn't announce any plans for the Fantastic Four

Just timing isn't it? The Fox deal is too recent for them to have made concrete plans.

Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #146 on: July 30, 2019, 10:00:36 PM »
Just timing isn't it? The Fox deal is too recent for them to have made concrete plans.
Surely. I guess I just assumed that someone at Marvel would have drawn up some rudimentary ideas for if/when they got hold of the rights. Perhaps the Black Widow film will make some oblique reference to Latveria or a young Dr Richards.

Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #147 on: August 20, 2019, 10:21:25 PM »
Spiderman is out of the MCU then. There’ll be a post credits scene on the Blu-Raymond of a giant Kevin Feige trapping Tom Holland under a huge glass and chucking him out of a window.

Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #148 on: August 20, 2019, 10:34:46 PM »
Presumably this is one side throwing a strop over not getting more money? You'd imagine both parties will come back around eventually (even if it takes a few years)... perhaps Sony are banking on Marvel placing a lot of emphasise on the character.

Nowhere Man

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Re: Marvel Phase 4, 2020-whenever
« Reply #149 on: August 21, 2019, 03:41:11 AM »
Disney wanted 50% of the profits while retaining the entire merchandising rights. To put it in perspective, Sony make 95% of the profits on every Spidey film made. (Thanks to an incredibly shortsighted arrangement with Marvel a couple decades ago) Hardly surprising then that they'd shoot down Disney's suggestion.

People are going mental over this btw, I like the films but Marvel fans can be fucking scary.