Topic: Music education for my kid - hardcore/drum & bass/dubstep

[Pingers]

My kid likes EDM and bad dubstep, but in his defence he is only 11. We were playing some music tonight on the Youtube (started with Hendrix doing Voodoo Chile live which was great) and after a bit he said he wanted some EDM on, so I said that was ok but we needed to work up to it first so he understood where it came from. So we went more or less chronologically and I played some stuff that I thought gave a reasonable overview of the progression from disco to EDM, albeit a very condensed journey. I tried to play him stuff that probably wouldn't have been made without what had gone before so that he got a sense of how musicians are influenced by what went before. So this is what we played:

Michael Jackson: Don't Stop Til You Get Enough - music to dance to (and for Michael to be happy and Black to, judging by the video)

Prince: Kiss and Let's Go Crazy - to show Hendrix's and Michael Jackson's influences and and to give an example of music using drum machines and synths

Human League: Fascination (more electronics)

New Order: Blue Monday - Moog synth bass, sequencers, classic bridging track from synth pop to house

S Express: Theme From S Express - getting closer to modern dance / electronic music

The Prodigy: Out of Space and No Good - breaks! hardcore!

Paul van Dyk: For an Angel - bit of a jump this one, it was getting late. Getting closer to EDM now

Tiesto: Some godawful live show where it is made abundantly clear that it's all his fault. Twat.

Then some EDM / dubstep mix of my lad's choice. Not my cuppa, but no matter. Then I played him Archangel by Burial and then he had to go to bed.

So, I'm thinking next time we do this (a couple of weeks away at least because of going on holiday) I want to start with the Amen break and go from there. I'm thinking maybe some Cloud 9, definitely Omni Trio (Renegade Snares probably), Atlantis by Bukem, some London Elekricity, Photek etc. But this is where you come in, because I want to show the progression from early hardcore to dubstep (so will need some 2 Step in there I guess) in about 10 tracks, in chronological order. Go on, suggest me ---

[gib]

Can't do the history of d&b and dubstep without some digging into the reggae side of things. Get the Lee Perry one the Prodigy sampled, Chase the Devil isn't it. Jah Screechy's Walk and Skank is what you've got me playing now if that kind of thing helps.

[Sebastian Cobb]

In the early 2000's Channel 4 did a quite comprehensive history all the way from the start of House to what was current then (so DnB/Garage). I should watch it again really.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_Hz6FQyVJ8

[boki]

This is gonna sound like a pisstake, but I've had this long-held theory that early dubstep was influenced by metal.  Not to the same extent as reggae and breakbeat, for sure, but I reckon it's there - there's certainly always been a proliferation of hairy white guys around that corner of the dance music spectrum (and let's not forget that Skrillex used to be in a screamo band).  I'm particularly thinking of late-80s/early-90s thrash stuff with the slow breakdowns, though, like this.

[imitationleather]

When I was around that age my dad bought me a jungle compilation. Fookin' loved that.

I believe it was this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jungle-Massive-Mixed-DJ-Hype/dp/B00005U5GB

£59.99! Wish I'd kept my copy! I imagine you can get in mp3-form for nowt.

[Better Midlands]

When I was around that age my dad bought me a jungle compilation. Fookin' loved that.

I believe it was this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jungle-Massive-Mixed-DJ-Hype/dp/B00005U5GB

£59.99! Wish I'd kept my copy! I imagine you can get in mp3-form for nowt.

Solid compilation that

If your lad likes bad dubstep, look into a subgenre of jungle called "jump up", it's where the bass drops originated

[Panbaams]

When I was around that age my dad bought me a jungle compilation. Fookin' loved that.

I believe it was this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jungle-Massive-Mixed-DJ-Hype/dp/B00005U5GB

£59.99! Wish I'd kept my copy! I imagine you can get in mp3-form for nowt.

Jungle is massive (amounts of money)

[NoSleep]

Just to echo that reggae is an important influence in the development of drum'n'bass and all that followed. Likewise hiphop.

[monkfromhavana]

Roughly chronological, and following one particular path (otherwise things like LTJ Bukem - 'Music' or some 1992 piano/breakbeat rave would be on there) here's what i think would be a good journey using tracks that are going to be easy to find.

Shut Up & Dance - £10 To Get In
Renegade Soundwave - The Phantom
Unique 3 - The Theme
LFO - LFO
Lennie De Ice - We R i.e.
Urban Shakedown - Some Justice
D-Livin - Why
Metalheads - Terminator
Noise Factory - Breakage #4
Origin Unknown - Valley Of Shadows
Blackstar - Champion DJ
MA2 - Hearing Is Believing
J. Majik - Your Sound

You'll have to come up with anything after this as it changed too much for me after about 96. Probably some tunes like Metropolis by Adam F, Messiah by Konflict, then some UKG, then Dubstep.

God knows why that compilation is up for £60 - I'd think that there are plenty of them knocking around, and even if not you could find tens of other compilations with the same tracklist on for about a tenner.

*edit* that comp is £7 on Discogs.

[momatt]

When I was around that age my dad bought me a jungle compilation. Fookin' loved that.
I believe it was this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jungle-Massive-Mixed-DJ-Hype/dp/B00005U5GB
£59.99! Wish I'd kept my copy! I imagine you can get in mp3-form for nowt.

£7 here if you want it mate.
https://www.discogs.com/DJ-Hype-Jungle-Massive/release/25717

[Pingers]

Solid compilation that

If your lad likes bad dubstep, look into a subgenre of jungle called "jump up", it's where the bass drops originated

Excellent point, thanks

[Pingers]

Roughly chronological, and following one particular path (otherwise things like LTJ Bukem - 'Music' or some 1992 piano/breakbeat rave would be on there) here's what i think would be a good journey using tracks that are going to be easy to find.

Shut Up & Dance - £10 To Get In
Renegade Soundwave - The Phantom
Unique 3 - The Theme
LFO - LFO
Lennie De Ice - We R i.e.
Urban Shakedown - Some Justice
D-Livin - Why
Metalheads - Terminator
Noise Factory - Breakage #4
Origin Unknown - Valley Of Shadows
Blackstar - Champion DJ
MA2 - Hearing Is Believing
J. Majik - Your Sound

You'll have to come up with anything after this as it changed too much for me after about 96. Probably some tunes like Metropolis by Adam F, Messiah by Konflict, then some UKG, then Dubstep.

God knows why that compilation is up for £60 - I'd think that there are plenty of them knocking around, and even if not you could find tens of other compilations with the same tracklist on for about a tenner.

*edit* that comp is £7 on Discogs.

Thank you for this pal, and for all the other suggestions, keep em coming. My problem now is that I'm packing today and going away tomorrow, and now I just want to listen to 48 hours of hardcore and d&b

[Better Midlands]

God knows why that compilation is up for £60 - I'd think that there are plenty of them knocking around, and even if not you could find tens of other compilations with the same tracklist on for about a tenner.

There was a point 10+ years ago that unmixed CD (that one isn't, proably just a chancer) compilations of D&B were fetching quite big money as they were the only way of getting most of these tracks in HQ. There was an industry guy I knew on another forum that collected them fanatically (all dance music genres) and was often used by record companies wanting to re-release/make further compilations where the master wasn't available.

[monkfromhavana]

Thank you for this pal, and for all the other suggestions, keep em coming. My problem now is that I'm packing today and going away tomorrow, and now I just want to listen to 48 hours of hardcore and d&b

What kind of tracks do you want? The 'Anthems' or more underground tunes?

Anthem-wise

Bizarre Inc - Playing With Knives
Altern 8 - Infiltrate 202
2 Bad Mice - Bombscare
Liquid - Sweet Harmony
Awesome 3 - Don't Go
DJ Edge - Compnded
Jonny L - Hurt You So
Shut Up & Dance ft. Peter Bouncer - Ravin' I'm Ravin'
DJ Seduction - Hardcore Heaven
DJs Unite - Volume 1
Nookie - Give A Little Love
House Crew - Euphoria (Nino's Dream)
Nebula II - Anathema
Krome & Time - The Slammer
Dance Conspiracy - Dub War
Zero B - Lock Up
Sonz Of A Loop Da Loop Era - Far Out
Sy-Kick - Nasty (Remix)
N-Joi - Anthem
Baby D - Let Me Be Your Fantasy
Ratpack - Searchin' For My Rizla
Elevation - Can You Feel It
Terrorize - It's Just A Feeling
Urban Hype - A Trip To Trumpton (Remix)
Congress - 40 Miles
Genaside II - Narra Mine
Isotonik - Different Strokes
T99 - Anasthasia
Quadrophonia - Quadrophonia
Blame - Music Takes You (2 Bad Mice Take You Remix)
Cubic 22 - Night In Motion
Xpansion - Move Your Body
Shades Of Rhythm - The Sound Of Eden
SL2 - Way In My Brain
N.R.G. - I Need Your Lovin'
Criminal Minds - Baptised By Dub
Top Buzz - Livin' In Darkness
Manix - Feel Real Good
Bug Kann & The Plastic Jam - Made In Two Minutes
Rhythm Quest - Closer To All Your Dreams
Acen - Trip II The Moon
Human Resource - Dominator
Outlander - Vamp
Joey Beltram - Energy Flash

[Sebastian Cobb]

This is gonna sound like a pisstake, but I've had this long-held theory that early dubstep was influenced by metal.  Not to the same extent as reggae and breakbeat, for sure, but I reckon it's there - there's certainly always been a proliferation of hairy white guys around that corner of the dance music spectrum (and let's not forget that Skrillex used to be in a screamo band).  I'm particularly thinking of late-80s/early-90s thrash stuff with the slow breakdowns, though, like this.

Drum and Bass, especially American Drum and Bass had links to metal.

Although it was Dom and Roland what covered Fucking Hostile.

[hummingofevil]

RIP Remarc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMYAiVZ-vNQ

If it's drops you want then Bjork doing Hyperballad with LFO (Mark Bell is in the band) 's Freak kicking in. It's glorious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ctClN6Bp-o

---

The other thing you could think of doing is get him something like a Novation Lanchpad 2 (they are about £70) and Ableton lite. Can use it as very simple production, DJ and live editing tool. My 12 month old nice was playing with a track I set up on it the other day and she was loving just banging the colourful buttons. An 11 year old will have their head round it in days.


I don't know whether an 11 year old would find this stuff ace or deeply uncool but what about some breakcore too. At least play it to him to show how silly music production can get and ask him whether he thinks its just noise or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UbB73H1PpQ


I can't help but think if I ever have an 11 year old kid I would want them to be into Knifehandchop too.

[bushwick]

Yeah, classic jump-up is the one. Get him on any mid-90s Mickey Finn set on youtube...I would have bloody loved "Super Sharp Shooter" if it had existed when I was 11. He'll probably like also like '92-era hardcore when it started getting silly and crazy, maybe work back from there.

Or sideways to some old Lenny Dee gabba sets, or Ruffneck Alliance or something like that. Worth playing him Jeff Mills - Live At The Liquid Rooms to see what he thinks, I would have thought anyone could dig the drama and excitement from that set even if unfamiliar with the music.

[bushwick]

Drum and Bass, especially American Drum and Bass had links to metal.

Although it was Dom and Roland what covered Fucking Hostile.

This is true - didn't Distance used to be a metal musician, or at least bang into metal? I've always thought dubstep is heavy metal and grime is punk.

[slavestate]

This is gonna sound like a pisstake, but I've had this long-held theory that early dubstep was influenced by metal.  Not to the same extent as reggae and breakbeat, for sure, but I reckon it's there - there's certainly always been a proliferation of hairy white guys around that corner of the dance music spectrum (and let's not forget that Skrillex used to be in a screamo band).  I'm particularly thinking of late-80s/early-90s thrash stuff with the slow breakdowns, though, like this.

Well, Mick Harris of Napalm Death / Scorn etc. pretty much created dubstep arguably?

[Johnny Yesno]

I don't know if Datsik are typical of dubstep but when I first heard them, I was put in mind of the industrial / techno-industrial music I used to love.

Datsik & Excision - Calypso: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMeUqYGSgDE

Datsik vs Downlink - Against The Machines: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bngaVvKF47A



Different beats but a similar sonic pallette:

Skinny Puppy - Hospital Waste: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_6pBg8_Wyc (1988)

Skinny Puppy - Worlock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDEhCm0pxCo (1989)

Front Line Assembly - Force Fed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5H6MCWOePY (1990)

Cyberaktif - Ruptured Freeks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSzQwWNAnro (1991)

aDuck - Power: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWiQIF2ofjc (1993)

Download - Sidewinder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuLxK1zxEro (1996)

[Johnny Yesno]

The mention of metal and breakbeat reminded me about Atari Teenage Riot. Is 11 too young for ATR?

Atari Teenage Riot "Into The Death": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQHsRNd_Lew (1997)

Alec Empire - The Peak: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSM9CcJpo4c (1996)

[Johnny Yesno]

I also think any history of electronic dance music should include Warp records somewhere. How about their first release?

SWEET EXORCIST - TESTONE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooD4plDsO60 (1990)

Of course, that means I can slyly suggest that the same history should mention Cabaret Voltaire, since Richard H Kirk was in both.

Cabaret Voltaire - Walls of Jericho: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orUwn9EwFo0 (1981)

Ahead of its time, though, eh?