Author Topic: Two mass shootings in America [split topic]  (Read 6699 times)

Re: Two mass shootings in America [split topic]
« Reply #60 on: August 05, 2019, 06:47:48 PM »
Lol I hadn't even read your post

worryingly, someone did and came to the same conclusion

at least we might be able to save you

Re: Two mass shootings in America [split topic]
« Reply #61 on: August 05, 2019, 07:05:34 PM »
worryingly, someone did and came to the same conclusion

at least we might be able to save you

What do you get from being such a tedious cunt? Am I missing something? You waste your life doing that.

FerriswheelBueller

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Re: Two mass shootings in America [split topic]
« Reply #62 on: August 05, 2019, 07:10:51 PM »
Sorry, but that's more vague. By posting Trump's rambling, barely coherent response, you've undermined the point you were making.

yeah this tbh

Cloud

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Re: Two mass shootings in America [split topic]
« Reply #63 on: August 05, 2019, 07:17:13 PM »
Funny, cos I've been reading the exact opposite to that

That happens when you hang around cesspits like 8chan with other white nationalist cunts.  Hopefully you can go back soon when they find an alternative to cloudflare.

Re: Two mass shootings in America [split topic]
« Reply #64 on: August 05, 2019, 07:18:51 PM »

Re: Two mass shootings in America [split topic]
« Reply #65 on: August 05, 2019, 07:24:18 PM »
That happens when you hang around cesspits like 8chan with other white nationalist cunts.  Hopefully you can go back soon when they find an alternative to cloudflare.

That makes literally no sense - white nationalists on 8chan call brown terrorists mental health sufferers, and white terrorists scum? aren't you lot supposed to be all clever and that?

very high paedo count with those avatars in my experience

Twed

  • What, prick? That's my child. My Johnson's child
Re: Two mass shootings in America [split topic]
« Reply #66 on: August 05, 2019, 07:29:09 PM »
Stop paying attention to Paulie. Genuinely a dumb as shit thing to do.

Pdine

  • Apparently I'm Jewish
Re: Two mass shootings in America [split topic]
« Reply #67 on: August 05, 2019, 07:32:35 PM »
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/apr/26/context-trumps-very-fine-people-both-sides-remarks/

Here’s a full transcript of the press conference, as the quote posted earlier misses a section without indicating that it has. Read the full thing and see where your opinion of Trump rests once you’re done.

Re: Two mass shootings in America [split topic]
« Reply #68 on: August 05, 2019, 08:34:24 PM »
Quote
The president also said he was directing the justice department to draw up a proposal that would swiftly deliver the death penalty to those who commit hate crimes and mass murders, so that capital punishment could be rendered “quickly, decisively and without years of needless delay”.

Trump further revived the widely debunked theory that video games were a factor in mass shootings, condemning “the gruesome and grisly video games that are now commonplace.”

“It is too easy today for troubled youth to surround themselves with a culture that celebrates violence,” he said. “We must stop or substantially reduce this, and it has to begin immediately.”

If he's blaming violent video games, I don't think he understands who a huge chunk of his fanbase are.

FerriswheelBueller

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Re: Two mass shootings in America [split topic]
« Reply #69 on: August 05, 2019, 08:38:37 PM »
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/apr/26/context-trumps-very-fine-people-both-sides-remarks/

Here’s a full transcript of the press conference, as the quote posted earlier misses a section without indicating that it has. Read the full thing and see where your opinion of Trump rests once you’re done.

Who knows where these wingnuts get the crazy idea that chanting “send them back” or that shooting immigrants is an acceptable position to have?! What a lark

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yMCkzCJHfcU

Re: Two mass shootings in America [split topic]
« Reply #70 on: August 05, 2019, 08:50:29 PM »
More background on Connor Betts, the murderer of nine people at Dayton, Ohio. History of threats of rape against women - including lists - and lists of people he wanted to murder.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dayton-ohio-shooter-connor-betts-kept-hit-list-and-rape-list-bellbrook-high-school-classmates-say/

More information here:

https://heavy.com/news/2019/08/connor-betts/

Yet
Quote
police said there was nothing in the background of 24-year-old Connor Betts that would have prevented him from purchasing the .223-caliber rifle with extended ammunition magazines that he used to open fire outside a crowded bar.


He murdered his sister, three black women, three black men and two white men.

Not the time to speculate much with insufficient information, but some strange and extremely tangled themes there. Fits the more conventional profile in some respects, but not in others.


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Re: Two mass shootings in America [split topic]
« Reply #71 on: August 05, 2019, 08:55:23 PM »
Quote
strange and extremely tangled themes there. Fits the more conventional profile in some respects, but not in others.

Which, when faced with the question 'how much access do we want the public to have to guns?', you naturally swing towards "none at all ideally".

FerriswheelBueller

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Re: Two mass shootings in America [split topic]
« Reply #72 on: August 05, 2019, 09:04:39 PM »
Which, when faced with the question 'how much access do we want the public to have to guns?', you naturally swing towards "none at all ideally".

The US just has a backwards mentality regarding background checks, safe storage, and magazine capacity. Regardless of what people think, people in the US will always have access to firearms so the question is how do you allow that safely.

Forcing people to apply for licenses to law enforcement (who ensure everything is being stored appropriately and a background check is complete), having federal safe-storage laws and magazine limits, and strict criminal penalties on anyone who fails to comply is the way to go.

This is politically unpopular so will never happen. It’s what we have in Canada and the UK and it is absolutely the right thing. People who own firearms aren’t inherently evil - the trick is stopping people who are inherently evil getting firearms.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

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Re: Two mass shootings in America [split topic]
« Reply #73 on: August 05, 2019, 09:15:16 PM »
Probably said this on the last thread on this subject but if it was a gated community where kids of white businessmen and politicians had been shot to shit there'd be regulation within the month.

FerriswheelBueller

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Re: Two mass shootings in America [split topic]
« Reply #74 on: August 05, 2019, 09:16:03 PM »
Probably said this on the last thread on this subject but if it was a gated community where kids of white businessmen and politicians had been shot to shit there'd be regulation within the month.

Depressingly true

Re: Two mass shootings in America [split topic]
« Reply #75 on: August 05, 2019, 09:23:52 PM »
I think they'd still find excuses and want to ramp up security etc.
This has happened in schools remember. Their answer to that was more guns.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

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Re: Two mass shootings in America [split topic]
« Reply #76 on: August 05, 2019, 09:24:29 PM »
I think they'd still find excuses and want to ramp up security etc.
This has happened in schools remember. Their answer to that was more guns.

Not schools any of their kids went to.

The libertarian attitude is to want to do whatever I want unless some external consequence I didn't think about starts affecting me, then it's the biggest thing in the world.

Funcrusher

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Re: Two mass shootings in America [split topic]
« Reply #77 on: August 05, 2019, 09:28:50 PM »
Probably said this on the last thread on this subject but if it was a gated community where kids of white businessmen and politicians had been shot to shit there'd be regulation within the month.

I don't think there would. Mericans are just too wedded to their guns and the second amendment and the whole 'I love my country but I fear my government' thing. Gun ownership seems to be fundamental to many Americans idea of who they are.

Urinal Cake

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Re: Two mass shootings in America [split topic]
« Reply #78 on: August 05, 2019, 09:41:30 PM »
Probably said this on the last thread on this subject but if it was a gated community where kids of white businessmen and politicians had been shot to shit there'd be regulation within the month.
Nope. Several Republicans were shot here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Congressional_baseball_shooting. Not to mention the several workplace shootings of white and white-collar businessmen. Or Sandy Hook where dozens of nice white children were killed.

For a significant proportion of the American population owning a gun with the least amount of regulation possible is a right. Obviously the gun lobby makes sure that never changes.

What it would take really is a demonstration or policy of State power that would make it a liability for every person with a gun- good or bad, black or white to be harassed/imprisoned/injured/killed to show that gun owners are ultimately powerless against the organisation and firepower of the State. The only way the State does not care about you and your affairs is if you do not own a gun.

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Re: Two mass shootings in America [split topic]
« Reply #79 on: August 05, 2019, 09:51:03 PM »
Don't think those are the same. I'm talking about someone going into the ultra rich gated compounds and slaughtering them, then somewhere else in America, doing likewise. Leaving a message that not only are they not safe but that they are coming for those people. Then imagine the perps escaped justice by offing themselves first, leaving no opportunity for redress or retribution.

If the right Daddy's girl is filled with bullets America changes. Maybe not in the way I predict but there is no fucking way they would let that slide.

However typically these shooters tend to be incredibly parochial. They just won't put in a shift these days Clive.

Urinal Cake

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Re: Two mass shootings in America [split topic]
« Reply #80 on: August 05, 2019, 10:01:57 PM »
If GOP politicians, lobbyists and police were all shot during the all-American pastime of baseball and nothing changed I don't think the idea of a killing children of politicians in a gated community is going to change that. Being vulnerable is not the fear. The fear is taking away power. Guns are never to blame. It will be mental health, 'division' and security who don't have enough powers and guns.

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Re: Two mass shootings in America [split topic]
« Reply #81 on: August 05, 2019, 10:06:23 PM »
For a significant proportion of the American population owning a gun with the least amount of regulation possible is a right. Obviously the gun lobby makes sure that never changes.

Well, whatever your or I (or anyone) thinks - firearm ownership absolutely is a legally enshrined right in the US so they’re right there - it is the regulation that is a big deal. Saying “oh if only guns didn’t exist” isn’t dealing with the reality. That’s why campaigns targeting universally supported notions like safe-storage, universal background checks, and magazine capacity limits are a much better use of public safety dollars.

Quote
What it would take really is a demonstration or policy of State power that would make it a liability for every person with a gun- good or bad, black or white to be harassed/imprisoned/injured/killed to show that gun owners are ultimately powerless against the organisation and firepower of the State. The only way the State does not care about you and your affairs is if you do not own a gun.

With respect, I don’t think that makes sense. The US does not have firearm registration so how does the (federal?) government know who to harass? And again - owning firearms does not make a person inherently evil.

The reality is that people own firearms - how do we deal with this as a social health issue and keep people safe? There are lessons to be learned from literally every other developed nation in the world so why is the US (or some of their politicians) so intransigent on such common-sense topics?

Re: Two mass shootings in America [split topic]
« Reply #82 on: August 05, 2019, 10:07:30 PM »
Don't think those are the same. I'm talking about someone going into the ultra rich gated compounds and slaughtering them, then somewhere else in America, doing likewise. Leaving a message that not only are they not safe but that they are coming for those people. Then imagine the perps escaped justice by offing themselves first, leaving no opportunity for redress or retribution.

If the right Daddy's girl is filled with bullets America changes. Maybe not in the way I predict but there is no fucking way they would let that slide.

However typically these shooters tend to be incredibly parochial. They just won't put in a shift these days Clive.

*frantically takes notes*

Zetetic

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Re: Two mass shootings in America [split topic]
« Reply #83 on: August 05, 2019, 10:09:01 PM »

FerriswheelBueller

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Re: Two mass shootings in America [split topic]
« Reply #84 on: August 05, 2019, 10:09:38 PM »
If GOP politicians, lobbyists and police were all shot during the all-American pastime of baseball and nothing changed I don't think the idea of a killing children of politicians in a gated community is going to change that. Being vulnerable is not the fear. The fear is taking away power. Guns are never to blame. It will be mental health, 'division' and security who don't have enough powers and guns.

A one-off attack against people who have armed bodyguards (who used their government-issued pistols to fight back) isn’t the same as the fear that your children may be killed. The though of that is terrifying.

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Re: Two mass shootings in America [split topic]
« Reply #85 on: August 05, 2019, 10:12:42 PM »
Hmm.

Well for the avoidance of doubt, I mean “people who acquire firearms with the express purpose of doing harm”.

Urinal Cake

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Re: Two mass shootings in America [split topic]
« Reply #86 on: August 05, 2019, 10:29:36 PM »
Quote
With respect, I don’t think that makes sense. The US does not have firearm registration so how does the (federal?) government know who to harass? And again - owning firearms does not make a person inherently evil.
Always checking permits for open carry and concealed guns in public.  Having a presence at gun shows, shops, auctions, sales etc to make sure that everything is above board and that the State is always watching. Whenever a gun related crime happens knocking on the doors of known gun owners and treating them like possible suspects or future perpetrators. Things police have experience in with racial profiling but carrying it over to people with guns.

I don't think most politicians left or right really care about their children to be honest. I'd say for a politician being the victim of a crime yourself is worse than your child being one. Being a victim leaves you with injuries, PTSD and in America makes you look weak (Elijah Cummings). If it's your child a particularly useless child like Eric Trump, Hunter Biden etc in some ways it's a better option.

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Re: Two mass shootings in America [split topic]
« Reply #87 on: August 05, 2019, 10:33:13 PM »
...you’re going to send a federal trooper to every private sale that happens in the US? I don’t think this is feasible, sorry. As for the stuff about people not caring about their kids, I think you’re wrong on that as well.

Urinal Cake

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Re: Two mass shootings in America [split topic]
« Reply #88 on: August 05, 2019, 10:40:52 PM »
Maybe not every gun show, sale etc but enough to instill some fear. And it doesn't have to be only Federal either.,

Also I don't think I am being cynical enough about politicians and their children.


Zetetic

  • Burying isn't the same as killing.
Re: Two mass shootings in America [split topic]
« Reply #89 on: August 05, 2019, 10:50:28 PM »
the express purpose of doing harm
Hmm. Although this bloke, in fairness, probably does qualify from what we know.

I'll try to be less irritating - I think it's interesting that trying to answer the question more fully ultimately grounds out in restrictions that seem trivially open to abuse if you don't have a fairly high-level of trust in the government.

The second biggest category of people in the "National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS)" is now mental health. (You can get on it for the equivalent of a detention under §2/3 of the MHA, I believe.)

I wonder what the demographics of those 5.8 million people look like.