Jeffrey Epstein found dead in his cell [split topic]

[BlodwynPig]

Yeah I think that's the way you're supposed to say it, as Blodwyn says, but it seems that Ms. Maxwell might not.

I can well imagine Cap'n Bob not giving a flying fuck about how his wife might have wanted it pronounced.

What did i say?

[Ambient Sheep]

Turns out you didn't, Pseudopath did, because I'm a fucking senile idiot.

Both posts duly edited.

Apologies.

[kalowski]

Gill-laine, with a hard G, I'd always supposed.  But I could well be wrong.

Would love to know why her and Waters were having a conflab.  (So many jokes, all of them lame.)

They've all got a hard G by the time...

[Pdine]

This vortex has now expanded, via the MIT donation scandal, to Richard Stallman the father of the Free Software movement.

https://medium.com/@selamie/remove-richard-stallman-fec6ec210794

https://www.thedailybeast.com/famed-mit-computer-scientist-richard-stallman-defends-epstein-victims-were-entirely-willing

Stallman has always been someone who doesn't exactly court controversy but seems unable to avoid it. The Daily Beast article gives good examples of his previous statements that have rightly raised eyebrows. The problem is that it is precisely Stallman's complete inability to conform to both good and bad societal pressures that have led him to be the pioneer he is. It's also a problem that in this case he is being very questionably quoted, in that he is clearly not saying that Giuffre was 'entirely willing' but that she gave the appearance to Minsky of being entirely willing. It's a really ugly bit of inaccurate summary.

I also see that that other advocate of the Free/Open software movement Eric Raymond has recently deleted his blog. Raymond was also a tone-deaf speculator about age of consent issues, as well as being an anthropogenic climate change denier and serious, serious gun nut. He's not stupid though...

http://web.archive.org/web/20190902175819/http://esr.ibiblio.org/

edit to add: Immature though it is I find it hilariously/endearingly naive that Raymond's project to create a software infrastructure to financially support key figures in Free Software (like himself) has this Clerks-phone-order name:

https://www.linuxjournal.com/content/loadsharers-funding-load-bearing-internet-person

[Zetetic]

"There's plenty of people who have trouble managing social norms who manage not to make excuses for rape.", to quote Matthew Garrett.

Garrett was an FSF Board Member for a period, who resigned after the FSF's General Counsel (Eb-n M-gl-n, at a guess) threatened people at various events and RMS apparently protected them.

[Pdine]

"There's plenty of people who have trouble managing social norms who manage not to make excuses for rape.", to quote Matthew Garrett.

I agree completely, although obviously most of those better-managed minds didn't have the enormous and profound cultural effect that Stallman has had.

Garrett was an FSF Board Member for a period, who resigned after the FSF's General Counsel (Eb-n M-gl-n, at a guess) threatened people at various events and RMS apparently protected them.

Yes, and of course Mgln is also in the process of suing another free software charity over the use of the word freedom in association with software in their trademark, leading to strong advances in the field of pointless irony.

[Pseudopath]

Saw this on Twitter and it made me chuckle:

[Ambient Sheep]

Nothing hugely consequential but kinda amusing:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9929489/courtney-love-prince-andrew-claims-jeffrey-epstein/

RANDY ROYAL Courtney Love claims Prince Andrew turned up at her house at 1am 'looking for sex' after 'being introduced through paedo Jeffrey Epstein'

ROCK chick Courtney Love has alleged Prince Andrew once tried to seduce her -- amid claims that they were introduced through paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.

The royal turned up at the star's house at 1am "looking for sex", shortly after being introduced to the disgraced financier.



While they did not sleep together, Courtney — widow of Nirvana rocker Kurt Cobain — has told friends Andrew was "very flirtatious".

The 55-year-old singer was among those recently named in Epstein's infamous black book.

She told a pal: "I was in bed when the doorbell rang at 1am, so put on my fluffy slippers and a dressing gown, and the Queen's second son was standing there with a protection officer, totally unannounced.

"He said he had got my address from a mutual friend and was looking to have a fun night in Hollywood, and apparently I could show him a good time.

"He seemed to be looking for sex and was quite flirtatious.

"I offered to make him a cup of tea, and thought it would be amusing to serve him it out of a vintage china cup with the Queen's face on it. We found it funny.

"He said he had got my address from a mutual friend and was looking to have a fun night in Hollywood, and apparently I could show him a good time."

Courtney Love

"We sat down on the sofa, by the fire, and that is when he got quite flirtatious.

"He asked me what I did all day, which I found quite offensive, so I quipped back, 'And what do you do all day, Prince?' He seemed amused.

'ONE OF THE MOST SURREAL THINGS IN MY LIFE'

"In the end he only stayed for around 45 minutes.

"Of all the things that have happened in my life, this truly is one of the most surreal things — and that is saying something."

A photograph taken on the night in question was published in her memoirs, Dirty Blonde: The Diaries of Courtney Love.

In 2012, details of Epstein's so- called black book of contacts and close associates emerged after it was found by the FBI and subsequently leaked. Courtney's name was in it.

Donald Trump, Bill Clinton, Alec Baldwin and Ralph Fiennes have also been cited in the late billionaire's network of contacts.

In July, Epstein was arrested on federal charges for sex trafficking of minors in Florida and New York.

[snipped standard stuff about the whole Epstein/Andrew situation]

"At no stage during the limited time I spent with him did I see, witness or suspect any behaviour of the sort that subsequently led to his arrest and conviction.

"I have tremendous sympathy for all those affected by his actions and behaviour."

'LOOKING FOR CHICKS'

In a 2006 TV interview to promote her book, Courtney — who previously claimed to have met Andrew at Hay-On-Wye, when she was in the Welsh border town — said the royal came "looking for chicks".

At the time, the prince's spokesman admitted the father of two had visited the one-time addict's house but insisted he was not alone.

He added that it was "absolute nonsense" to suggest he went there looking for girls.

He claimed the episode referred to by Courtney happened in 2000 — a year after Andrew claims to have first formally met Epstein.

Courtney rose to fame as the lead vocalist in alternative rock band, Hole in the late 1980s.

She enjoyed a turbulent romance with Kurt, and got pregnant within weeks of dating him. They married in 1992 after four months together.

The couple battled drug addictions, and both had spells in rehab trying to come off heroin. Kurt killed himself in 1994, aged 27.

Today Courtney is teetotal.

The recovering opioid addict was last week involved in a social media spat with OxyContin heiress Joss Sackler after turning down a big money offer to attend a show for her fashion line.

[BlodwynPig]

odd that he allowed a polaroid to be taken

[kalowski]

RANDY ROYAL Courtney Love...

Why is she a "randy royal"?

[PlanktonSideburns]

Why is she a "randy royal"?

All the 13 year olds he raped

[touchingcloth]

Why is she a "randy royal"?

It's probably missing a colon. A child's colon which was ripped out by Andrew's manky old todge.

[BlodwynPig]

Odds on the next up to date photo of Andrew we see will be him very grey and haggard. He will be dead after a short illness shortly thereafter.

[Ambient Sheep]

For what little it's worth, in the original article "RANDY ROYAL" was in a different colour to the rest of the headline, which was white.  The different colour was blue, quite possibly of the royal variety.

[Pdine]

Stallman resigns from MIT and FSF:

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/mbm74x/computer-scientist-richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-over-epstein-comments

[Twed]

"I am doing this due to pressure on MIT and me over a series of misunderstandings and mischaracterizations."

Classic fucking nerd

[Ambient Sheep]

Interesting comment from Reddit reposted on Slashdot yesterday:

Good summary from reddit [reddit.com] (since Vice is not a credible source):

Context: In a recently unsealed deposition a woman testified that, at the age of 17, Epstein told her to have sex with Marvin Minsky. Minsky was a founder of the MIT Media Lab and pioneer in A.I. who died in 2016. Stallman argued on a mailing list (in response to a statement from a protest organizer accusing Minsky of sexual assault) that, while he condemned Epstein, Minsky likely did not know she was being coerced:

We can imagine many scenarios, but the most plausible scenario is that she presented herself to him as entirely willing. Assuming she was being coerced by Epstein, he would have had every reason to tell her to conceal that from most of his associates.

Some SJW responded by writing a Medium post called "Remove Richard Stallman [archive.is]". Media outlets like Vice [archive.is] and The Daily Beast [archive.is] then lied and misquoted Stallman as saying that the woman was likely "entirely willing" and as "defending Epstein". He has now been pressured to resign from MIT [stallman.org]

Furthermore the deposition doesn't say she had sex with Minsky, only that Epstein told her to do so, and according to physicist Greg Benford she propositioned Minsky and he turned her down [archive.is]:

I know; I was there. Minsky turned her down. Told me about it. She saw us talking and didn't approach me.

This seems like a complete validation of the distinction Stallman was making. If what Minsky knew doesn't matter, if there's no difference between "Minsky sexually assaulted a woman" and "Epstein told a 17-year-old to have sex with Minsky without his knowledge or consent", then why did he turn her down?

Have little idea of the truth of all that but, having had a run-in with Vice's "reporting" myself before now, I thought it bore repeating.

Sorry for not rebuilding all the hyperlinks within, click through if you want them. :-)

[Pdine]

Have little idea of the truth of all that but, having had a run-up with Vice's "reporting" myself before now, I thought it bore repeating.

Sorry for not rebuilding all the hyperlinks within, click through if you want them. :-)

It's definitely true that all the reporting (surely deliberately?) removed a crucial qualifier from Stallman's post. His point was that Minsky was probably unaware she was coerced.

"We can imagine many scenarios, but the most plausible scenario is that she presented herself to him as entirely willing. Assuming she was being coerced by Epstein, he would have had every reason to tell her to conceal that from most of his associates."

which was then headlined by The Daily Beast:

Renowned MIT Scientist Defends Epstein: Victims Were 'Entirely Willing'

which is just flat out dishonest. The problem is that Stallman does have a whole history of pig-headed, questionable pronouncements, and the fact that the pronouncement that finally did for him was irresponsibly misquoted is kind of irrelevant.

I liked this quote - as a summation of the times we live in - from the original j'accuse blog:

First, he didn't even give the typical, whiney, 'he's accused but not convicted' defense.

[Phoenix Lazarus]

A TV interview with Virginia Roberts, in which she says she was 'forced' into sex with Prince Andrew, is set to air.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9966496/virginia-roberts-jeffrey-epstein-sex-slave-prince-andrew/

[Twit 2]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/20/prince-andrew-abuser-claims-virginia-giuffre-tv-interview

[kngen]

I can't escape the feeling that Prince Andrew - aka the most shit royal that no-one really likes, including his family - has been put forward as the one to take the fall for this, while the real establishment figures retreat into the shadows, much in the way Operation Yewtree went after twatty 70s TV personalities while Savile's political pals scrubbed their hard drives and lost documents behind many a filing cabinet.

[Ferris]

I can't escape the feeling that Prince Andrew - aka the most shit royal that no-one really likes, including his family - has been put forward as the one to take the fall for this, while the real establishment figures retreat into the shadows, much in the way Operation Yewtree went after twatty 70s TV personalities while Savile's political pals scrubbed their hard drives and lost documents behind many a filing cabinet.

I think the rest of the creepy establishment figures hid themselves a lot better because they were only mostly as arrogant as Andy. He thought he was untouchable so didn't bother.

That said, I don't think anyone planned to have him sent down - he's just the only one stupid enough to get caught, and nobody is willing to throw themselves in front of him and take the hit instead so I reckon he's toast.

[Ferris]

...worked though, hasn't it? We've all forgotten about this. Everyone gotten away with it.

Some witnessing pathologist didn't get the memo though.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article236809668.html

Multiple fractures in his neck (so not the one in the initial reporting), and haemhoraging in the eyes consistent with homicide, an aspect mysteriously passed over by journalists in August.

[Urinal Cake]

Only a confession by Maxwell will do anything now. Andy knows he's safe but has to do something so he can re-enter normal society.

[PlanktonSideburns]

Normal child trafficking passport hiding paedophile society

[BlodwynPig]

Only a confession by Maxwell will do anything now. Andy knows he's safe but has to do something so he can re-enter normal society.

Head to the 'i know a secret about the Queen' thread

[BlodwynPig]

Normal child trafficking passport hiding paedophile society

They love it really, dont they.
Rantzen, childline, pearl clutching...just a ruse - no-one cares about the weans

[Urinal Cake]

They love it really, dont they.
Rantzen, childline, pearl clutching...just a ruse - no-one cares about the weans

They love missing girls but when they come back? Too complicated, too damaged or reduced to inspirational Oprah shite.

Also this was retweeted by one of the TrueAnon guys https://twitter.com/liz_franczak/status/1189778695533187075

so ... whats the plan here? anyone wanna talk about this or

@FightTheNewDrug
2ND: This last week, a missing 15-year-old girl was identified in 58 videos on PornHub. The videos showed her being raped. Legally, this is both child porn and sex trafficking, yet it made the top 5 on PornHub and her legal name became a suggested search term.
Show this thread
10:38 PM - 30 Oct 2019

which should not be surprising but hell.

[Non Stop Dancer]

...worked though, hasn't it? We've all forgotten about this. Everyone gotten away with it.

Yep. Fucking shameful.

[Cuellar]

I'm seeing this a lot all over the internet 'DON'T FORGET EPSTEIN WAS KILLED TO PROTECT ESTABLISHMENT PAEDOS'

Ok - what do you want me to do with that information? Shall I go and citizen's arrest a financier?