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Jeffrey Epstein found dead in his cell [split topic]

Started by Zetetic, August 10, 2019, 02:04:03 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Murder or suicide?

Suicide
31 (35.6%)
Murder
11 (12.6%)
Yes
9 (10.3%)
Who cares, as long as the investigation continues and we expose some evil bastards
9 (10.3%)
OR SOMETHING MORE SINISTER
2 (2.3%)
Prison's too good for him. What about jail?
4 (4.6%)
Murdered by the King of the Nonces
2 (2.3%)
Raoul Moat
13 (14.9%)
Accidental death due to a Hutchence Tug
1 (1.1%)
GORDON'S ALIVE
3 (3.4%)
Brooooooken neckbones (and some home fries)
1 (1.1%)
I love nonces yeah, some of my best friends are 100% nonce
0 (0%)
Toby Young, Gifted and Nonce
1 (1.1%)

Total Members Voted: 87

bgmnts

Quote from: Thomas on August 10, 2019, 03:14:29 PM
Apology just in from Epstein's prison guards:

'We're sorry. We thought "suicide watch" meant "watch him commit suicide".'

https://youtu.be/OdKa9bXVinE


bgmnts

Fucking hell Louis wind your neck in, they'll suicide you in a heartbeat.


Quote from: up_the_hampipe on August 10, 2019, 04:06:18 PM
Sorry if I pissed you off, but if you're going to snap, it could be reserved for someone else who seems to enjoy twisting people's words to fuel needless battles.

Thursday, please do something about Verdoux he's being mean to me :(

Twed

Quote from: Monsieur Verdoux on August 10, 2019, 04:04:28 PM
One tweet by Morning Joe, guess this is avenue worth going down then!
What you're doing is shit, you're an ineffectual control freak and it's boring, you are banned from posting now.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Quote from: pigamus on August 10, 2019, 03:50:53 PM
Well Fred West managed to top himself. So did Harold Shipman. You can't watch them 24 hours, and why would you bother?

For those two maybe not, but in Epstein's case he possessed knowledge that could have led to important future convictions AND potentially stopped further abuse occurring, so it's pretty obvious why.

Quote from: Twed on August 10, 2019, 04:11:41 PM
What you're doing is shit, you're an ineffectual control freak and it's boring, you are banned from posting now.

We all know the libs are obsessed with Russia, we don't need to have the 200th pointless conversation about it in tangentially related threads

Hank Venture

I wonder what the investigation into this will be like. They have CCTV surely, and a precise window of his death (if they do checkups every x minutes).

Does anyone here really believe he killed himself?

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on August 10, 2019, 04:12:15 PM


For those two maybe not, but in Epstein's case he possessed knowledge that could have led to important future convictions AND potentially stopped further abuse occurring, so it's pretty obvious why.

Not just his knowledge, but there would have been a full criminal investigation/prosecution that might have brought unfortunate testimony out in open court. Now that Epstein is dead the investigation is over.

Yeah it's done, there can be a civil trial if the victims are so inclined, but it looks like this story is pretty much over. The trial of the century has been prevented from happening, the investigation that would have scratched beyond the surface understanding we have is also not happening. Everyone got away with it

up_the_hampipe

Quote from: Monsieur Verdoux on August 10, 2019, 04:11:26 PM
Thursday, please do something about Verdoux he's being mean to me :(

There he goes. Never change, ya pompous bully.

Maybe you were continually snarky in the first place and got some back, but think of it like that if it makes you feel better, who really cares

Cuellar

Does anyone know a good book on the English civil war

sponk

Quote from: Hank Venture on August 10, 2019, 04:17:50 PM
I wonder what the investigation into this will be like. They have CCTV surely, and a precise window of his death (if they do checkups every x minutes).

Does anyone here really believe he killed himself?

I think that's likely, but not certain. How would anyone have had him killed? Who would have done it? A guard or fellow prisoner I presume. I'd love to know how "they" would have arranged that

Zetetic

Quote from: Cuellar on August 10, 2019, 04:27:24 PM
Does anyone know a good book on the English civil war
British Civil Wars.

The World Turned Upside Down.

Cuellar


Zetetic

Quote from: pigamus on August 10, 2019, 03:50:53 PM
Well Fred West managed to top himself. So did Harold Shipman. You can't watch them 24 hours, and why would you bother?
You can watch them 24 hours, but you generally shouldn't and won't do so. (If you should, then they should probably be in a hospital.)

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on August 10, 2019, 04:12:15 PMFor those two maybe not, but in Epstein's case he possessed knowledge that could have led to important future convictions AND potentially stopped further abuse occurring, so it's pretty obvious why.

It's an interesting question whether it's justified on that basis, if he's been assessed - by mental health staff - as not posing a sufficiently high-level risk to himself. Can you adopt a more restrictive regime on the basis of importance? I guess, maybe.

Zetetic

Quote from: Cuellar on August 10, 2019, 04:29:06 PM
OK thanks
It's not really about the wars, but who just wants to read about killing?

Shoulders?-Stomach!

QuoteI guess, maybe.

It has similarities to witness protection, another area where it is vitally important the individual remains safe, sane* and alive.

*well... Compus mentis

Hank Venture

Quote from: sponk on August 10, 2019, 04:27:50 PM
I think that's likely, but not certain. How would anyone have had him killed? Who would have done it? A guard or fellow prisoner I presume. I'd love to know how "they" would have arranged that

Let me rephrase: does anyone really think that if he killed himself, it was completely of his own volition and with no support from from anyone? Like, maybe someone ordered him out of suicide watch, slipped him a note and told the guard to take the evening off. Even if he tied the noose himself, someone must have let him.

imitationleather

Quote from: sponk on August 10, 2019, 04:27:50 PM
Who would have done it? A guard or fellow prisoner I presume. I'd love to know how "they" would have arranged that

Are you taking the piss? This happens all the time, and not exclusively to celebrities up to their neck in paedo charges.

Zetetic

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on August 10, 2019, 04:39:40 PM
It has similarities to witness protection, another area where it is vitally important the individual remains safe, sane* and alive.
Isn't that entirely voluntary, by contrast?

Quote from: Zetetic on August 10, 2019, 04:30:05 PM
You can watch them 24 hours, but you generally shouldn't and won't do so. (If you should, then they should probably be in a hospital.)

It's an interesting question whether it's justified on that basis, if he's been assessed - by mental health staff - as not posing a sufficiently high-level risk to himself. Can you adopt a more restrictive regime on the basis of importance? I guess, maybe.

My understanding from reading credible accounts online is that it is standard procedure and fairly easy to make it nearly impossible for an inmate to kill themselves. A special cell with nothing in it, special clothing, guards checking every 10 minutes, etc.

Prisoners in the United States have practically zero rights.

Hank Venture

Whether he killed himself or was murdered/assisted I've no idea, but if there was no foul play here you would expect s full and thorough investigation into i) his death and ii) his co-conspirators - Maxwell, the Dubins, Dershowitz, et al. If this doesn't happen for whatever reason, then I'm all in on Epstein being snuffed out by the same powers that keep Maxwell out of a court room.

Zetetic

Quote from: Pearly-Dewdrops Drops on August 10, 2019, 04:44:36 PM
My understanding from reading credible accounts online is that it is standard procedure and fairly easy to make it nearly impossible for an inmate to kill themselves. ...
I can only point again to this:

Quote from: Zetetic on August 10, 2019, 03:01:19 PM
This DoJ document from 1995 provides a sample suicide prevention policy on page 78 (page 86 in the PDF), that specifies 4 levels of response.

I don't think that the dead-on-"suicide-watch" is the challenging bit here, but it will be interesting to see what comes out about that. Edit: Well, apparently that he wasn't on suicide watch at all...

That he had, seemingly, relatively easy access to means is surprising.

Hank Venture

I'm coming down with a bad case of Epstein Brain. Again.

jobotic



BlodwynPig

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on August 10, 2019, 04:39:40 PM
It has similarities to witness protection, another area where it is vitally important the individual remains safe, sane* and alive.

*well... Compus mentis

Compus mortis, more like