Wrestling: Probs mostly about AEW TNT debut and Smackdown on Fox

[Timothy]

I expected more for AEW considering the Bash of the Beach theme (although that turned out to be quite disappointing).

NXT has been the better show for weeks now.

[Ja'moke]

The thing about NXT is that it has very good wrestling but it's all very formulaic, like all WWE content. You kind of know what you're going to get. It's also very lacking in character (especially felt at the minute with Velveteen on the shelf)... it's just a lot of great wrestlers.

The top of the card in the NXT men's division is also becoming repetitive; just cycling around Cole, Gargano, and Ciampa, with Balor added to the mix (who himself is old guard NXT). How many times did we see Cole v Gargano last year? I was hoping Keith Lee was getting pushed up to the main event, but they've kept him at mid-card title level.

Don't get me wrong, I still love NXT, but it's been going through the motions since late 2019. It's not at the standard of 2018, where it had that incredible "who attacked Aleister Black?" storyline which weaved its way into multiple feuds and allowed numerous characters to shine. Right now it's in desperate need of a hot angle and some interesting characters.

Dynamite, on the other hand, is certainly not as polished or consistent a show as NXT. But it has an excitement about it. Each show can have major highs and sometimes shocking lows, but there is an energy to it, a sense of unpredictability. A big part of that is obviously helped by doing the shows in arenas with larger crowds, so already it feels and sounds much bigger than the Full Sail based NXT.

I also think AEW has done a great job of rotating their roster. You have your top guys like Jericho, Moxley, Cody, Omega, the Bucks, PAC, Hangman. But they've built up new faces like Darby Allin, Jungle Boy, Luchasaurus, MJF, Sammy Guevara, Private Party, that they can easily slot those guys into the main event one week and keep things fresh.

There is also more variety. You can have a PWG style, fast-paced spot fest one minute, then a Moxley death match, followed by an emotional Cody promo, then a hilarious Jericho piece, a soap-opera Brandi segment, a technical Omega or PAC match, a spooky Dark Order vignette, a bit of old school nostalgia, and so on. It doesn't always work, but when it does it's fantastic.

I will say though that NXT is thriving with its women's division right now (best it has ever been?), which quite clearly has AEW beat in that regard.

[sevendaughters]

I think that both are just okay. There's so much old and good wrestling that I haven't seen, on top of New Japan's big shows, that I just can't keep interested. NWA is a great throwback show and promo wise is killing everyone. But yeah, I just watched a Misawa-Taue match for the Triple Crown that was years ahead of what we're seeing now.

[Timothy]

Dynamite, on the other hand, is certainly not as polished or consistent a show as NXT. But it has an excitement about it. Each show can have major highs and sometimes shocking lows, but there is an energy to it, a sense of unpredictability. A big part of that is obviously helped by doing the shows in arenas with larger crowds, so already it feels and sounds much bigger than the Full Sail based NXT.

I also think AEW has done a great job of rotating their roster. You have your top guys like Jericho, Moxley, Cody, Omega, the Bucks, PAC, Hangman. But they've built up new faces like Darby Allin, Jungle Boy, Luchasaurus, MJF, Sammy Guevara, Private Party, that they can easily slot those guys into the main event one week and keep things fresh.

There is also more variety. You can have a PWG style, fast-paced spot fest one minute, then a Moxley death match, followed by an emotional Cody promo, then a hilarious Jericho piece, a soap-opera Brandi segment, a technical Omega or PAC match, a spooky Dark Order vignette, a bit of old school nostalgia, and so on. It doesn't always work, but when it does it's fantastic.

I will say though that NXT is thriving with its women's division right now (best it has ever been?), which quite clearly has AEW beat in that regard.

Feel a bit different about AEW. Even after a few months it already feels like same old same old. It's becoming more and more like WWE. Top card revolves around mostly the same people. The women's division is dire. They already messed up the MJF / Cody Angle and killed all hype surrounding Omega. JR is quite bad on commentary. Too much Brandi. The wrestling is good, but everything surrounding it (in combo with the audio issues and bland entrance themes) interests me less and less. Low point this week was the Mox / Pac confrontation and the weird sudden ending to the tag match. I don't need to see DDP wrestle in a big match on live tv in 2020.

Sorry if I sound a bit Debbie Downer but I'm just having a bit of wrestling fatigue. Gonna take a break until the PPV (just like I did with WWE and Smackdown) and hope it gets better (or more enjoyable for me) after that.

[hummingofevil]

The problem with AEW is the fan base that they built up before they launched on Network TV liked genuine indie wrestling and New Japan. AEW is neither of these thing but I do think the negative take on them is as much a result of expectation and not anything they have really done wrong. I'll explain.

Those of us who were rooting for AEW wanted an alternative to WWE. But that could mean literally dozens of different things. Was it going to be NJPW style with focus on epic, long term booking and "sports presentation", a Joshi promotion full of quirk, WCW light-heavyweight/lucha/highflier or GCW and their hot as fuck crowds and obligatory end-of-the-show death matches? If you want only one of those things AEW is a disappointment. But for me if the trick has been missed by all the naysayers.

The problem for me with WWE main roster is two-fold. Firstly, there is the big picture of supporting financially the McMahon family who are truely awful people. As wrestling fans we always have to compromise on that as most of the big players (and many of the indies) have some pretty awful business practices and ideologies; even AEW is not removed from criticism of this  - no billionaire is not a cunt; fact. So if anyone wants to give Vince money even though I don't then fair enough.

But secondly, and most importantly as far as the quality of a WRESTLING show goes is just how awful RAW and Smackdown have been for years due to Vince's booking. The issue is that there has been no INTERNAL logic in WWE for years. It's not even that they doing things that are fundamentally ridiculous as in principle the things Vince does are sound. Trying to make Roman a star got such a huge kick back but NJPW has done the same with Okada; the Lana/Rusev thing is cringy as fuck but the Big Mami storyline in AAA that is very similar has been the most fun soap-opera wrestling of the last 6 months. The issue is in WWE is that Vince does these things badly and that there is no long term plan, pushes are pulled after a few week and there is no reason to commit to the "product".

AEW is an alternative, not to NXT but to main roster. They are doing many of the same things as main roster but take even the worst bit of AEW and it is consistent and everything (almost everything) has short term and long term consequences. Stories are being told, stars are being made and things just MAKE SENSE. It is just a better version of a mainstream wrestling show that leans on WCW, old-school NWA, territories and throws in modern workrate (and a fresh and young roster).

AEW is absolutely fine. It is a very good wrasslin' TV show that I enjoy every week. Do I prefere AAA and NJPW and Gatoh Move? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean isn't doing something good.

[hummingofevil]

Anyone staying up for the McGregor fight?

[Mobius]

Was gonna but the Taima stream is buffering like fuck and getting on my wick

[hummingofevil]

Was gonna but the Taima stream is buffering like fuck and getting on my wick

Feel asleep and just watched it now. Wow. Fucking brutal. Shouldered the fuck out of cowboy .

[sevendaughters]

good post back there, hummingofevil

[arpster]

Impressive from McGregor...Cowboy's a tough fucker but he was completely blitzed in half a minute

sets it up nicely for the one everyone wants - McGregor v Masvidal

should be a real scrap and a half ....but as good as Conor looked I just cant see him (or anyone) being a match for psycho-eyed, street Jesus...2020 will be Jorge's year

[hummingofevil]

Impressive from McGregor...Cowboy's a tough fucker but he was completely blitzed in half a minute

sets it up nicely for the one everyone wants - McGregor v Masvidal

should be a real scrap and a half ....but as good as Conor looked I just cant see him (or anyone) being a match for psycho-eyed, street Jesus...2020 will be Jorge's year

If there are those wondering why we discussing MMA on a wrestling thread I would massively encourage you to watch the promos of these guys. Jorge's "violence" ring side interview was utterly hilarious (whilst wearing what appeared to be a very expensive Versace dressing gown) and Conor is just Conor. Can't look away.

[Deanjam]

Anyone interested in a Royal Rumble sweep? No karma these days for a prize, but it might make it more interesting than WWE's booking allows.

If so I'll start a thread.

[Ja'moke]

Anyone interested in a Royal Rumble sweep? No karma these days for a prize, but it might make it more interesting than WWE's booking allows.

If so I'll start a thread.

Yes.

[Deanjam]

Rumble thread link.

https://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=77585.new#new

So far it's thee and me, Ja'moke.

[up_the_hampipe]

New Day's podcast seems fun https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QvAs8LpmRE

[Deanjam]

Royal Rumble sweepstake entrants so far:

Deanjam
Ja'moke
up_the_hampipe
BlodwynPig
Timothy
Delete Delete Delete
weekender
sevendaughters
chveik
gmoney
madhair60

[Deanjam]

Updated list:

Deanjam
Ja'moke
up_the_hampipe
BlodwynPig
Timothy
Delete Delete Delete
weekender
sevendaughters
chveik
gmoney
madhair60
Mobius
Golden E. Pump
hummingofevil
Moribunderast
rjd2

[madhair60]

yeah nice list brainiac.

[up_the_hampipe]

Channel 5 are going to air 1 hour versions of RAW and Smackdown on Saturday and Sunday mornings starting in Feb, NXT UK is also airing on the Paramount channel https://twitter.com/AlexM_talkSPORT/status/1219563855015219201?s=19

That's a pretty big deal to get WWE on terrestrial TV again. Episodes of HEAT that would air on Channel 4 on Sunday afternoons are what made me a wrestling fan.

[sevendaughters]

anything on Saturday morning that isn't a fucking cooking show

[Deanjam]

New Day's podcast seems fun https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QvAs8LpmRE

"Big meaty men slapping meat!" Damn he's funny. I want a full video of their podcast, the audio only isn't enough.

[Famous Mortimer]

Talking of wrestling promos in non-wrestling things, some bloke who did use to be in WWE was in the World's Strongest Man t'other day (but I don't know how he got on in the final cos I've not watched it yet, please don't spoil it). He did very well in the heat, too.

[Ja'moke]

Talking of wrestling promos in non-wrestling things, some bloke who did use to be in WWE was in the World's Strongest Man t'other day (but I don't know how he got on in the final cos I've not watched it yet, please don't spoil it). He did very well in the heat, too.

He was playing a heel then?

(I'll show myself out)

[hummingofevil]

yeah nice list brainiac.

"Anyone of these MOUTHY FOOLS can get it!"

(I've always hated the idea of a guilty pleasure in any medium but Conor is definitely that; the man is a total cunt but... ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED? Well yes actually...  Him and Tyson. My woke sensibilities should cancel the pair of them but they are gold in the confines of the entertainment industry they exist in).

---


Watching AEW Dark for first time in weeks. Tony and Dasha are so good. The Big Swole Diamante match was really very good and Cima et al vs Dinosaur cunts is a whole load of fun.  They have the talent in the women's division but they need to work out a way of building the division for Dynamite TV.

Taz Excalibur are a great commentary team too. Up there with Kevin Kelly and Rocky for me.

[Moribunderast]

Watching AEW Dark for first time in weeks. Tony and Dasha are so good. The Big Swole Diamante match was really very good and Cima et al vs Dinosaur cunts is a whole load of fun.  They have the talent in the women's division but they need to work out a way of building the division for Dynamite TV.

Taz Excalibur are a great commentary team too. Up there with Kevin Kelly and Rocky for me.

Yeah, Dasha is great. So weird to think WWE trained her to be so monotone that Bryan Alvarez often imitated her as a robot. I'll never understand why they don't want backstage personalities to have PERSONALITY. It's like Mean Gene never existed in their minds.

Big Swole looks like she could really catch on as a fan favourite, I think. Her strikes look good and she has charisma and a good luck and great backstory. As you say, they need to feature the women's division better on Dynamite. It's months in and I feel like I know nothing about any of the women except for fuckin' Brandi! And even then I only know she is building a dark army for SOME REASON. I guess I also know Britt Baker is a dentist. Surely by now we should have had a good 5 minute profile video on Riho, at least. I do understand that with two hours a week it is very tough to fit everyone in but I think it would be good if they could make a soft rule to feature the women's feuds and maybe do a profile video or two on every second episode or something.

Anyway, that all read quite negative but I am PUMPED for this week's Dynamite on the Jericho cruise. Wrestling shows in unique settings are always interesting and the card looks really good.

[Deanjam]

Yeah, Dasha is great. So weird to think WWE trained her to be so monotone that Bryan Alvarez often imitated her as a robot. I'll never understand why they don't want backstage personalities to have PERSONALITY. It's like Mean Gene never existed in their minds.

The argument is that they'll overshadow the talent. The counter to which is don't script your talent to be homogenized robots then.

[hummingofevil]

One of the finest ring workers ever to grace this sport we all love.

https://twitter.com/mrlariato/status/840996660092256256?s=21

And a complete fucking nutcase.

[Ja'moke]

This cruise show is really fun. I hope AEW continue to try out unique venues for Dynamite.

Also loving this Hangman arc.

[weekender]

MJF continues to be awesome; this is how you build new stars.

Mic time with Cody Rhodes, gets beaten up and thrown into a swimming pool by the Young Bucks, and I still want to see if the cocky bastard will win.  Great stuff.

[weekender]

Progress #101 is a bit weird so far.

Smallman appears to be nowhere to be seen, but I'm still loving Dragunov and most of the card.

Could be interesting things happening.