Wrestling: Probs mostly about AEW TNT debut and Smackdown on Fox

[hummingofevil]

And the time he threw a car door into the crowd https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gohECva-EQk

I am not joking but this is my top three moments in wrestling since I started watching again 10 years ago. Utterly brilliant.

[Ja'moke]

Orange Cassidy vs Minoru Suzuki booked for Spring Break 4. This is shaping up to be the best show of Mania weekend.

[Deanjam]

Been watching a bit more AEW these past few weeks now that I've finally remembered to set a series record for it. Don't usually post much as I only get to see it on Saturday, but a few thoughts on what I like.

I'm loving the Jericho/Moxley feud. It's the best thing in AEW and both guys are playing their roles superbly.

Sammy Guevara is excellent. He's everything people say about MJF, but a better worker too. I'm looking forward to a potential feud between him and Darby Allin.

Great job with Hangman Page, a wrestler I've never cared about, to make him someone to watch. Right now, he's more interesting than Kenny Omega, and they've done a great job with the tension between the two of them and the Bucks. Simple storytelling wins the day as usual.

[Famous Mortimer]

AEW is doing a Dynamite from about a mile up the road from my house in April, so I'll be there. I'm not a super-regular viewer of any wrestling content, but I've liked all the AEW I've seen.

[Ja'moke]

I've said it for the last few weeks, but Raw is really watchable again now. New faces getting strong pushes, mostly logical booking, and decent matches and angles.

[Moribunderast]

Has anyone ever coined the term "McMahonsplaining" for the way Vince treats his audience? Because if not I just did and I want all the wordplay credit. If someone already has, I am very sorry.

As for Raw... man, I just don't know if it ever can be watchable for me. The commentary and production are such a huge barrier for entry now with so many alternatives. New Japan camera-work has ruined most other wrestling for me.

[Ja'moke]

I find the commentary more tolerable now that they've put Tom and Byron on Raw, those two work well together. I mean, you're always going to get the buzzwords and what have you, as that's WWE, so I can see that being a sticking point for people.

But to look at Raw now compared to most of last year, it's improved a lot. I'm enjoying what they're doing with Drew. Rollins as a heel with his cult-like faction is working and giving someone like Buddy Murphy the spotlight. The Angel Garza debut made him look like a star. Rhea looks to be about to get a big rub by facing Charlotte at Mania. Owens is a really rootable babyface. And the Edge and Orton storyline is off to a cracking start.

[hummingofevil]

So Meltzer and Cornette hâve finally fallen out. Dave finally got sick of Cornette's bullshit and Cornette being Cornette just doubled down.

There is literally nothing worse in all of wrestling that Cornette's fan boys using Cornette's lame insults and arguments to abuse people. The only amusing thing is how Cornette can't see how he is ploughing  the exact same furrow as Trump with his attack-dog, everyone else is wrong, insult-first apologise-never, everything-was-better-in-the-old-days and you-have-to-agree-with-him-about-everything ways.

[Deanjam]

It is sad. Sad as in pathetic. I mean, I disagree with Meltzer that Omega/Okada is the greatest feud ever (it isn't even Okada's greatest feud), and I'm not as big on Omega as many others are, but Cornette has a weird dislike of Kenny & the Bucks and, as you say, has doubled down on himself so much that it's boringly contrarian.

[Moribunderast]

Imagine throwing away a 40 year friendship because a friend has slightly different taste in a television show. Christ, Cornette is an idiot.

[Ja'moke]

Timothy Thatcher and Killer Kross signed to WWE.

[Gurke and Hare]

ZSJ v Ospreay announced for Rev Pro's York Hall show next week.

[weekender]

This might be a slightly unpopular opinion, but I kind of like Randy Orton at the moment.

He turns up every week, and consistently delivers decent matches.

Not 5 star great matches, I admit, but he's decent every time, and he goes the extra mile when a PPV is on.

Just a thought.

[peanutbutter]

Orton's basically always been solid as fuck in fairness. It's the booking that's been shite with him.

WWE have had so many guys like that though. Big Show could've been utilised so much better over the years, Mark Henry was sitting around doing fuck all for most his career when the guy was fucking amazing

[peanutbutter]

ZSJ v Ospreay announced for Rev Pro's York Hall show next week.

Fuck, I might go to that by myself...

[up_the_hampipe]

Orton's basically always been solid as fuck in fairness. It's the booking that's been shite with him.

And his habit of have soul-deadeningly boring matches.

[hummingofevil]

If anyone still awake and give a shit then Meltzer and Cornette are going at each other on Twitter. Dave is in the right (obviously) but Cornette's "cult" are equaling things up somewhat by proving what a bunch of absolute sychophantic fannies they are

[This isnt witty sorry]

spidermanpointingatspiderman.jpg

[hummingofevil]

spidermanpointingatspiderman.jpg

It's really not. :)

Mox match was ace btw. The mad bastard had flown back from Japan for that and is back to NJPW tomorrow but it was worth it. Loads of fun

[This isnt witty sorry]

It was the bunch of sycophantic fannies bit I was referring to, sorry should have maybe made that clearer.

[Ja'moke]

This episode of Dynamite has been excellent so far. Everything flowing, nice variety of matches, great storytelling, dropped most of the crap. Love it.

Now let's see Cody get whipped!

EDIT: That was brutal and way more riveting than I expected. Really makes you want to see MJF get his arse kicked.

[up_the_hampipe]

If anyone still awake and give a shit then Meltzer and Cornette are going at each other on Twitter. Dave is in the right (obviously) but Cornette's "cult" are equaling things up somewhat by proving what a bunch of absolute sychophantic fannies they are

It's really quite depressing. A friendship ruined by a fake sport and a bunch of pot-stirrers in the comments. It was nice that they could maintain a level of respect for each other and have disagreements about the business. This could be resolved with a phone call, some people really shouldn't be on Twitter. Cornette's heart is going to explode soon enough.

[Moribunderast]

Holy fuck that Cody/MJF segment was good. I loved that in MJF's initial promo he said "I want to whip you in front of your friends and family" and yet, when the segment came around, it was Cody's friends and family that got him through it. Actual storytelling! And between Kong being written off on Dark and Brandi showing up to be by Cody's side, AEW may have quietly swept the Nightmare Collective under the rug!

I thought that was a pretty great episode of Dynamite. Very happy Yuka Sakazaki has returned as I thought she had potential to be a Rey Mysterio-like underdog babyface in the women's division when she made her initial appearances. Thought the 8-man was very good though I question having Hangman lose. My housemate, who is as casual a wrestling viewer as someone could be without outright detesting it, has loved Hangman's drinking gimmick and seemed quite deflated when Page lost. Though the pitcher-outta-nowhere got some heat back.

JR and Tony were saying some weird shit during the ad break of the Penelope Ford match. Tony basically forgot to speak at one point because he was staring at her, then JR started talking about whether she could make biscuits, then talking about suddenly noticing her eye colour - I ain't OUTRAGED or anything but I was kinda thinking "Reign it in, fellas!"

Still haven't gotten around to last week's New Japan shows. I hear Okada/Taichi was great though.

[Deanjam]

There's so few people in wrestling who are good on Twitter. Just the most thin-skinned arsey pricks. Soon I'm gonna be left just following the New Day lads.

[Deanjam]

Still haven't gotten around to last week's New Japan shows. I hear Okada/Taichi was great though.

Great by Taichi standards. At the lower end for Okada.

[Spode]

What's the score with the anti-meltzer sentiment out there then? I subscribe to the observer for the radio stuff, which I genuinely enjoy and probably spend more time  listening to them than I do watching wrestling. But there's obviously large groups of fans who seem to genuinely hate him judging by the comments that pop up on twitter from time to time. There's a few criticisms of him I think would be justified (I've said on here before I find his comments on race issues a bit off at times and think he has a genuine inability to detect humour/sarcasm) but on the whole I really enjoy listening to his stuff and find him informative and genuinely passionate about what he does. Fuck me, the time alone he puts into the observer every week should get him a pass by itself.

Be genuinely interested if anyone could shed light on what people dislike about him (bar the Japan bias thing) because I don't follow nearly enough wrestling stuff to keep up with the criticisms of him.

[sevendaughters]

The main things people dislike about him are

- He is perceived to be biased toward his sources (which are thought to be people high up in AEW and certain disgruntled WWE talent)
- This in turn leads to a charge of anti-WWE bias
- Jim Cornette recently disavowed Dave as a friend because Dave stands by his praise of Kenny Omega and "modern wrestling" in the face of accusations it isn't realistic, lacks psychology, etc.
- That he's a bit of an old man on certain issues, as you said race / gender politics
- That he has undue influence on the perception of wrestling and talent

Here's my take, which I wrote elsewhere and pasted and slightly amended

The greatest project in history is the act of ongoing documentation. What we know about the transfer of England from its pagan days to the spread of Christianity was written by a monk who rarely left what is now Newcastle, in fealty to the Christian king of the day. The same goes for the scriveners of Ancient Rome. Their work is there for us and our job is to critically interpret it. History cannot be "right".

What I mean is this: Dave is frequently, egregiously, gloriously, spectacularly wrong. His prose style is bizarre and leads to some of the wildest sentences I have ever read. He is hard-headed about his opinions, he leans way too close to his sources, and his cultural opinions are stuck in a timewarp.

But: he puts the work out there. 50k words. More. Audio. Every week. Without fail. He's got kids. He had a wife until recently. Twitter (the one regrettable part of him). Other people's shows. For a man with little time he is very generous with his.

He also, more often than not, shows a fair amount of integrity even if it comes at the cost of wearing insults from the boo boys. In a day where the routine reaction to fucking up is doubling down, he backs off and apologises.

There are other good wrestling journalists such as John Pollock but for consistency and a reasonably straight dope in a timely fashion, Meltzer and his crew are a bankable force. I feel I can bask in Dave's wrongness because I know my own mind. If there's someone who does what Meltzer does and is also someone who agrees with me all the time, then please name them below and I'll check them out.

When he goes, and it won't be long, there is no one to fill his boots and you'll miss him dreadfully. At first you'll think "thank fuck, no more quarterly breakdowns". But gaps will open up in our collective history of wrestling. Given that no respectable outlet wants to cover wrestling on the level, wrestling journalists will go the way of Satin and Billi Bhatti: forelock-tugging salarymen masquerading as journalist-influencers.

In case you can't tell, I voted yay [EDITOR'S NOTE this was in a poll over whether Meltzer was any good]. I just really respect people who attempt to, however futile the gesture and wrong the methodology, cover the entirety of a subject for a length of time: people like Pevsner, Wainwright, Elizabeth David, Audubon.

[Spode]

Cheers for that summary. Pretty much my thinking towards him. I tend not to read the observer much due to its length and the writing style but still get my money's worth with all the audio stuff. I do still cringe from time to time with some of his stuff (he does still focus a lot on the 'look' of women) but I rely on him almost exclusively to keep up with what's going on. I actually like his numbers stuff as well, I find it interesting and more often than not it's a sense of normality away from the nonsense that tends to get put out on television on a weekly basis. As you mentioned, once he's gone there's going to be a massive void to fill. Having said that, like I said before, my exposure is limited so there may well be people out there doing similar stuff.

In summary: like the fella, but he probably thinks Alex Scott shouldn't be on SKY.

[up_the_hampipe]

WWE Network are doing a docuseries about the Ruthless Aggression era https://youtu.be/QaEB5wQ45A0

Probably the most interesting era of WWE for me, so very excited for this. Their documentaries are usually excellent.

[sevendaughters]

interestingly - WWE Network might be coming to an end. Vince reckons he can get more money selling WM etc to networks.