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March 28, 2024, 06:13:59 PM

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Wrestling: Probs mostly about AEW TNT debut and Smackdown on Fox

Started by peanutbutter, August 11, 2019, 06:06:36 PM

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sevendaughters

Quote from: Timothy on March 19, 2020, 08:07:32 AM
He absolutely is.

state your case then, 'cos I see a guy who has been pushed on top in a bad company's most boring and fail-heavy era where ratings, audiences, and general interest have completely tanked - and he's not even that good a wrestler. he pretty much coasts for 2 year patches until called back to the top line where he fails to excite anyone. relative smoothness and a good body doesn't even get you to the top 100 ever especially when you're dull as ditchwater.

sevendaughters

150 wrestlers in my viewing lifetime (1988-) better than Randy Orton off the top of my head before I went to work

WWE: The Rock, HHH, Steve Austin, Bret Hart, Owen Hart, Mr. Perfect, Randy Savage, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Kurt Angle, Brock Lesnar, Edge, Rey Mysterio, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Shawn Michaels, John Cena, The Undertaker, Mick Foley, Jeff Hardy, Hulk Hogan, Ted DiBiase, Roddy Piper, Johnny Gargano

WCW / JCP: Ric Flair, Dusty Rhodes, Arn Anderson, Ole Anderson, Tully Blanchard, Bobby Eaton, Sid Vicious, Rick Steiner, Scott Steiner, Sting, Ricky Steamboat, Brian Pillman, Ricky Morton, Goldberg, Booker T, Terry Funk

TNA: AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, Chris Daniels

ECW: Rob van Dam, Sabu, Mike Awesome

ROH and independent: Kevin Steen, Low Ki, Nick Jackson, Matt Jackson, Nigel McGuinness, Necro Butcher

famous freelancers: Bruiser Brody, Terry Gordy, Steve Williams, Stan Hansen, Dan Spivey, Doug Furnas, Phil LaFon, Gary Albright, Dan Severn, Vader

NJPW: Hiroshi Tanahashi, Kazuchika Okada, Keiji Muto/Great Muta, Shinya Hashimoto, Shinsuke Nakamura, Kota Ibushi, Jushin Liger, Riki Choshu, Yuji Nagata, Satoshi Kojima, Tomohiro Ishii, Tetsuya Naito, Minoru Suzuki, Katsuyori Shibata, Hirooki Goto, Kensuke Sasake/Power Warrior, Hiromu Takahashi, Hiroshi Hase, Kenny Omega, Yoshihiro Takayama,

AJPW: Giant Baba, Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi, Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue, Jun Akiyama, Genichiro Tenryu, Jumbo Tsuruta, Kento Miyahara, Takao Omori

NOAH: Naomichi Marufuji, Takashi Sugiura, Katsuhiko Nakajima, KENTA

Japan other: Atsushi Onita, Hayabusa, Akira Maeda, Nobuhiro Takada, Kazuo Yamazaki, The Great Sasuke, CIMA, Daisuke Sekimoto, Masaaki Mochizuki, Tatsuo Nakano, Masakatsu Funaki, Yoshiaki Fujiwara, Kiyoshi Tamura, Tsuyoshi Kohsaka, Mr. Gannosuke, Ultimo Dragon

AJW/joshi: Chigusa Nagayo, Dump Matsumoto, Bull Nakano, Jaguar Yokota, Manami Toyota, Arisa Nakajima, KANA/Asuka, Io Shirai, Akira Hokuto, Meiko Satomura, Megumi Kudo, Aja Kong,

Mexico: Atlantis, Ultimo Guerrero, El Hijo del Santo, Octagon Jr., Dr. Wagner Jr., Mistico, La Parka/LA PARK, Negro Casas, Blue Panther, La Mascara, Psycho Clown, Konnan, Perro Aguayo, Cibernetico, Heavy Metal, Psicosis, Black Terry, Villano III, Rush,

Europe/world: Will Ospreay, Volk Han

Ja'moke

Can't believe were arguing about Randy Boreton when there is an amazing Dynamite to talk about!

kitsofan34


Ja'moke

Quote from: kitsofan34 on March 19, 2020, 12:48:29 PM
That Lance Archer vignette. Phoeeeeee.

I loved that. Reminded me of something you'd see on Lucha Underground.

Also got a big laugh out of MJF and Spears sat ringside betting on the matches. Cracked up at MJF whispering to Tony Schiavone, "You wanna get in on this old man?"

It was a brilliant idea to have a handful of talent sat at ringside. Just that little bit of atmosphere helped massively. Also having the hardcam facing the stage and tron helped. The WWE shows have felt so awkward because you can see all the empty seats.

sevendaughters

Quote from: Ja'moke on March 19, 2020, 12:44:30 PM
Can't believe were arguing about Randy Boreton when there is an amazing Dynamite to talk about!

yes the limits of a forum, only one thing to talk about at once.

Gurke and Hare

Quote from: Ja'moke on March 19, 2020, 01:00:24 PM
It was a brilliant idea to have a handful of talent sat at ringside. Just that little bit of atmosphere helped massively.

Yes, that was great - I liked them having a heel section and a face section, although I was expecting some back and forth between them leading up to Colt twatting MJF or similar.

Ja'moke

Quote from: Gurke and Hare on March 19, 2020, 05:07:13 PM
Yes, that was great - I liked them having a heel section and a face section, although I was expecting some back and forth between them leading up to Colt twatting MJF or similar.

Colt did twat Kip Sabian, at least. Colt was ace all night actually.

BeardFaceMan

That Dynamite worked better thanit had any right to, it was pretty good. They actually adapted and switched the presentation rather than just do their usual show in front of no crowd.

I was so fucking happy that it wasnt Matt Hardy who was the Exalted One. He's always been solid in the ring (at least in WWE, I havent seen too much of him since he left there) but he's death on the mic, can't talk for shit and a total charisma vacuum. So you can imagine how disappointed I was by the ending of Dynamite. Ah AEW, you giveth and then you taketh away.

Spode

That Austin 3:16 Day segment was truly awful. God help WrestleMania

hummingofevil

Dynamite was brilliant. That show would have been incredible with a crowd.

peanutbutter

The creative heads of AEW are people who have worked on tons of shit without audiences for years, even if WWE's creative team had that they've two absolutely gigantic barriers to making something new work in the forms of Vince and Kevin Dunn.

Haven't seen Dynamite yet, mind.

Mobius

Yeah that AEW was really cool. As good as can be given the circumstances.

Really great opening promo from Cody. Kenny and The Bucks stuff to the camera was nice, just sincere and making the best of the situation.

Loved that Lance Archer stuff, had a unique feel. Not really bothered about seeing Matt Hardy wrestle but it's just nice to see people go from WWE from AEW.

Hopefully WWE have learned a few things from that show.

Ja'moke

The Matt debut was done really well though with the drone and the piano -- while the pop would have been huge in front of an audience, those touches wouldn't have come off as well.

I think Matt's creativity could be a real value to a wrestling company. There is clearly an audience for what he does. I do hope they keep his wrestling limited though.

BeardFaceMan

According to his interview with Jericho, he left WWE because he wanted a prominent role on TV, and he reckons he's got 3 or 4 years left in him, so I imagine he'll be wrestling plenty.

Ja'moke

A prominent role doesn't have to mean wrestling every week though. AEW has been pretty good at not having the same people wrestle every week.

Deanjam

AEW certainly handled the no-crowd thing better than WWE. A real shame those debuts couldn't have been in front of fans as they would've been awesome reactions, but what can you do.

weekender

Part of the 'fun', if that's the right word, of watching the wrestling companies deliver product without crowds is to imagine what the crowd reactions *could* have been like.

boki

Quote from: sevendaughters on March 19, 2020, 09:00:59 AM
state your case then, 'cos I see a guy who has been pushed on top in a bad company's most boring and fail-heavy era where ratings, audiences, and general interest have completely tanked - and he's not even that good a wrestler. he pretty much coasts for 2 year patches until called back to the top line where he fails to excite anyone. relative smoothness and a good body doesn't even get you to the top 100 ever especially when you're dull as ditchwater.

I was going to try to counter this, but... I can't.

I was going to point to how crisp Randy is in-ring, but even with that I realised that he's basically X-Pac without the charisma.

kitsofan34

I feel like AEW are working as a collective to try and get everyone over. Just little character details like MJF and Shawn Spears betting, and bare with me on this, but even whilst Sammy Guevara was butchering Judas, the commentators were mocking him whilst simultaneously still remembering to talk about how talented he is inside the ring. The character details are reminiscent of WWE at its best, replaced now by what seems to be a corporate entity full of thousands of people all working to satiate the sadomasochistic leanings of Vince McMahon.

Ja'moke


Deanjam

If Braun was 6 inches shorter he wouldn't even have a job in wrestling, never mind WWE. So limited and pushed purely on his size.

Deanjam

Couple of other posts from Braun that came up with this.




Mobius

Braun's really bought into Vince's bullshit.

Yeah just get another indie gig during a pandemic, great attitude.

He's never been as over as he was a few years ago. Jobbed out to Brock, Fury and all he really does is run around the ring with his knees fucked from years in the PC.


Ja'moke

AEW has confirmed they'll keep running empty arena live shows for as long as they can, but they've made the decision to hold off next week's Blood and Guts match til a later date.

I think that's the right move. A war games match needs to be in front of a crowd. Plus with Hardy and Harper now on the scene, along with the other currently running stories, there is plenty of intrigue to make these empty arena shows work in the meantime.

amateur

I thought that Dynamite was tremendous and better than a lot of their shows with crowds.

Having the face/heels sectioned was a great look, there were stories and bits they could cut to during the matches to keep it interesting, the matches were pretty much all solid and the storyline progression was all fantastic. I also love all the fun they have with the on screen graphics: "Said she would never ring announce again" for Brandi, "Whatever" for Orange etc. Just putting stuff in wherever they can.

I thought the reveals for Hardy and Lee were both great and worked without needing a huge pop - the Dark Order believe in their own hype so don't need the crowd to big up their reveal because the gimmick has always been about the TV viewers. It also made sense for Hardy to emerge and fill the fifth slot when the Elite needed him. Works!

This had to be a great show, as good as anything else they've done, because they need good if not great numbers as ammo so that if they can't put shows on, TNT have a reason to bring them back. 932K viewers will sure help them with that.

sevendaughters

should be past surprised that wrestlers are generally right-wing and individualistic.

Gurke and Hare

Quote from: amateur on March 21, 2020, 08:38:13 AM
I also love all the fun they have with the on screen graphics: "Said she would never ring announce again" for Brandi, "Whatever" for Orange etc. Just putting stuff in wherever they can.

I loved the one for Hangman in the first Dynamite after the PPV: "Whooped both those guys' asses".

Ja'moke

Quote from: Gurke and Hare on March 21, 2020, 12:00:12 PM
I loved the one for Hangman in the first Dynamite after the PPV: "Whooped both those guys' asses".

His one this week was great too. "Has been social distancing for months". Along with Adam "Handwash" Page, of course.