Author Topic: Wrestling: Probs mostly about AEW TNT debut and Smackdown on Fox (Read 125856 times)

hummingofevil · « **Reply #60 on:** August 13, 2019, 12:24:46 PM »

Quote from: sevendaughters on August 13, 2019, 10:10:11 AM

Here is the full Kenta turn - the way they swerve it from being a basic heel turn to a brilliant one is amazing. Also the best sell of GTS ever. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dct7m-MJDFs

I take it you are watching the Japanese commentary but with the English subtitles yeah? The Japanese commentary is amazing there to be fair.

sevendaughters · « **Reply #61 on:** August 13, 2019, 12:50:08 PM »

I (pseud alert) always watch with the Japanese commentary. The subtitles there are great but obviously you don't get them live. To me they just add to the drama with their earnestness, mirroring the crowd. Kevin Kelly is the best English language announcer going but I find it a bit buzzy and cliched. Plus I grew up watching VHS tapes so you just get used to a certain aesthetic.

peanutbutter · « **Reply #62 on:** August 13, 2019, 12:51:43 PM »

Jesus though... is Shibata returning? How on earth could anyone let Shibata in a ring again after that injury

I've been without proper internet for a few weeks, the NJPW show in London is literally a 15 minute walk away from me so I'm assuming I get good tickets outside the place on the day from someone or another. Might be going alone though... which seems maybe not a good idea for wrestling?

mikeyg27 · « **Reply #63 on:** August 13, 2019, 12:54:18 PM »

Quote from: hummingofevil on August 13, 2019, 12:19:34 PM

I don’t think there is shit seat in the whole place. The Olympic Park is a soulless hell but the venue itself looks ace and the atmosphere at Olympic boxing was incredible. It really could be an all time great experience.

And as I said when they announced this show at Wrestle Kingdom, The Copper Box is exactly the sort of arena you should be having a show like this in - it's the best sports arena in London. It's compact enough that you'll be fine viewing in any seat. If WWE ever do a UK Takeover in London this should be the venue.

And I like the Olympic Park, the further you stray from the Westfield / Stadium end the better.

sevendaughters · « **Reply #64 on:** August 13, 2019, 01:07:12 PM »

Quote from: peanutbutter on August 13, 2019, 12:51:43 PM

Jesus though... is Shibata returning? How on earth could anyone let Shibata in a ring again after that injury

DAVE says not cleared. But he looked GREAT.

up_the_hampipe · « **Reply #65 on:** August 13, 2019, 01:10:30 PM »

Excited about the potential of Sasha Banks having a compelling character for the first time in 4 years. I like the blue hair too. Like a fly Marge.

Ja'moke · « **Reply #66 on:** August 13, 2019, 01:19:43 PM »

I hope they let Sasha hold the title for longer than a week this time too. Hell In A Cell ppv is coming up soon. Becky v Sasha in the cell? Yes please. Then if Survivor Series continues the champion v champion matches, it'd mean we could get Sasha v Bayley again.

hummingofevil · « **Reply #67 on:** August 13, 2019, 02:14:49 PM »

Quote from: peanutbutter on August 13, 2019, 12:51:43 PM

Jesus though... is Shibata returning? How on earth could anyone let Shibata in a ring again after that injury

I've been without proper internet for a few weeks, the NJPW show in London is literally a 15 minute walk away from me so I'm assuming I get good tickets outside the place on the day from someone or another. Might be going alone though... which seems maybe not a good idea for wrestling?

There are still tickets available in top tier for about £35. What I can gather is they sold the first 4-5k tickets immediately and the rest have been slow to move as everyone who wanted to go wanted best tickets possible and bought them as soon as they went on sale. I've been to wrestling alone and had a great time. Just hope the crowd is more "Japanese" in style watching the matches and not pissed up dickheads chanting throughout. TBF in Altrincham is was pretty good balance so I am hopeful.

As for Shibata, the first thing I thought when I saw him was his head and it was noticeable the lengths they went to protect him. The Bullet Club guys basically let him have a swing at him and everything was aimed at body. Does it mean that it is impossible for him to be cleared? I'm not so sure but as I wrote before if watching Bryan wrestling of Naito landing on his head (again!) is bad enough for the nerves; I think a Shibata match would be unwatchable as you would be so worried about his brain.

Moribunderast · « **Reply #68 on:** August 13, 2019, 02:33:24 PM »

Apparently Ibushi cut a promo saying he wants to fight for the IWGP Title on the Jan 4 Tokyo Dome show and then challenge the Intercontinental Champion to a unification match on night 2/Jan 5, should he win. Oh God, Ibushi vs. Naito in a Tokyo Dome main event... someone's gonna die.

Ja'moke · « **Reply #69 on:** August 14, 2019, 02:07:52 AM »

Great match between Reigns and Murphy on Smackdown.

mikeyg27 · « **Reply #70 on:** August 14, 2019, 12:00:15 PM »

Quote from: Ja'moke on August 14, 2019, 02:07:52 AM

Great match between Reigns and Murphy on Smackdown.

Probably the closest we'll ever get to Roman vs Kenny Omega. It was a great match and was an interesting companion piece to the equally good Cedric vs Drew McIntyre match on Raw, which accomplished the same thing - making former cruiserweights look like absolute studs.

Daniel Bryan went full Brando in this episode and I am totally down for it.

magval · « **Reply #71 on:** August 15, 2019, 03:43:10 PM »

Can someone recommend the best Moxley matches from this summer? Last one I saw was Joey Janela so any since then would be class. Also names of shows so I know where to find them. Thanks pals.

sevendaughters · « **Reply #72 on:** August 15, 2019, 04:06:15 PM »

Quote from: magval on August 15, 2019, 03:43:10 PM

Can someone recommend the best Moxley matches from this summer? Last one I saw was Joey Janela so any since then would be class. Also names of shows so I know where to find them. Thanks pals.

from New Japan

vs. Juice Robinson from the Best of the Super Jr finals night
vs. Tomohiro Ishii from G1 Climax 29 day 6

An Actual Propeller · « **Reply #73 on:** August 15, 2019, 05:22:11 PM »

Moxley’s G1 matches against Naito (Day 10) and Takagi (Day 8) were excellent too. If you like comedy, add the Yano match (Day 12) to the list. But the Ishii match that sevendaughters mentions above is the best match I’ve ever seen him in.

hummingofevil · « **Reply #74 on:** August 16, 2019, 03:57:26 PM »

For any of you who didn’t watch this in Mania week it is now free on YouTube. Some good shit.

https://youtu.be/Cslu7zFmPjM

Ja'moke · « **Reply #75 on:** August 16, 2019, 04:22:36 PM »

Riho vs. Hikaru Shida announced for All Out.

Also, the TV tapings in Boston and Philly both sold out.

Ja'moke · « **Reply #76 on:** August 16, 2019, 10:45:45 PM »

Looks like NXT will be going live on USA network on Wednesdays up against AEW, according to latest Meltzer rumours.

hummingofevil · « **Reply #77 on:** August 17, 2019, 03:14:18 AM »

Yeah. Mad day for news. The NXT move is great depending on what master stroke Vince thinks he is pulling. If it is to piggy back off AEW and give NXT even wider exposure and try to develop a third main roster brand that can draw even a fraction of the income he gets from RAW or Smackdown then cool. But if he thinks that it’s going to undermine AEW then I think it will backfire hugely. It will just draw more people to Wednesday night wrestling and you will either get channel swapping or recording one to watch straight after the other.

As for developmental the obvious idea is to bring back FCW as a network developmental show to fill the gap of what NXT was meant to be. Surely we have gone way past point of oversaturation though. I’ve never watched a single moment of NXTUK apart from that one PPV they did with Finn Balor.

That said I realised I have a load of MLW shows stored in my TiVo and in G1 gap I’m giviing them ago. It’s good stuff. Just a really simple hour long wrestling TV show. Feels old school with obvious heel and face storytelling. And I could listen to Cornette all day long. I’m actually keen in on the idea of an NWA weekly show if they replicate the vibe of The Crockett Cup show (up there in top 5 best looking shows of the year for me - that ring is lush) and MLW is not a million miles away from that vibe.

Moribunderast · « **Reply #78 on:** August 17, 2019, 01:52:06 PM »

The only worry with the NXT news is them being on proper telly might cause Vince to stick his beak in. Also not sure on that show going to two hours weekly. They have the roster to fill it out, for sure, but it was my favourite weekly show (though I haven't watched in a while due to G1) due to it's brevity and simplicity. Having to fill out two hours and potentially trying to counter-program segments/matches against AEW could make it a very different show and not necessarily in a good way. Also, if Vince starts rewriting scripts or deciding who should be pushed, eek. Out with Undisputed Era and Velveteen Dream and in with Riddick Moss and Vanessa Borne. And Keith Lee will probably do skits where he eats too many donuts on the way to the ring...

Ja'moke · « **Reply #79 on:** August 17, 2019, 07:09:38 PM »

Who we got? Expecting Drew or Ricochet, whoever advances out of those two to dominate the whole field. Hoping for Andrade. Dreading Corbin.

sevendaughters · « **Reply #80 on:** August 17, 2019, 08:30:45 PM »

I think AEW will smash NXT here. NXT feels like a cooled off show. Good matches of course but US fans want something more. I'd probably prefer an NXT show if it could hold quality but I have no faith.

Deanjam · « **Reply #81 on:** August 17, 2019, 09:14:09 PM »

Quote from: Ja'moke on August 17, 2019, 07:09:38 PM

Who we got? Expecting Drew or Ricochet, whoever advances out of those two to dominate the whole field. Hoping for Andrade. Dreading Corbin.

Drew beating Owens in the final with help from Shane seems most likely.

hummingofevil · « **Reply #82 on:** August 18, 2019, 01:20:47 AM »

Quote from: Deanjam on August 17, 2019, 09:14:09 PM

Drew beating Owens in the final with help from Shane seems most likely.

Its reported that the tourament is specifically for one guy (rather than them wanting to do a tournament and then work out the winner). King Drew would be a cool look in principle but it would remind me too much of Sheamus. Does Drew need another gimmick?

King Cesaro would be good but they did fuck all with him after the Andre win. Andrade would work. King Richocett again?

Thanks for the heads up to ever it was who warned me about AAA booking - I assume a Mask vs Hair retirement match rematch is exactly the type of nonsense I have to get used to yeah?

Which reminds me I was giggling about this before. 25:30 in. Suzuki shaving his own head after losing to Goto in hair match at last year's WK. https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6d228v

It will never not make me laugh that it was considered fair for both of these guys to offer up their hair.

That they made a storyline out of Suzuki having to shave his already shaved head is forever hilarious.

hummingofevil · « **Reply #83 on:** August 18, 2019, 04:52:35 AM »

MJF commiting to his gimmick more than most.

https://twitter.com/The_MJF/status/1162930929872068608?s=20

I did laugh*. So sorry.

*knowlingly**

**obviously

up_the_hampipe · « **Reply #84 on:** August 18, 2019, 03:54:41 PM »

Haha, MJF is a gift to the industry.

peanutbutter · « **Reply #85 on:** August 18, 2019, 06:45:38 PM »

Struggle to see how NXT on USA isn't a bad idea for everyone.

- Pisses Fox off immediately by not going to their affiliates
- Pisses Fox off by happening at a time when they should be prioritising Smackdown
- Potentially genuinely harms AEW, a company who are in no way going to challenge WWE in any serious way for Vince's lifetime and might actually rejuvenate the business a bit
- Ruins NXT by forcing them to do 2 hours live a week, having to deal with ad breaks, exposing talent that hasn't fully adapted to the TV setup to Vince's critical appraisal very early on, getting involved in hot shot ratings war nonsense
- Ruins Takeover shows due to the USA ratings being consistently prioritised over anything else
- Seriously harms the Network because what on earth is left on the Network after NXT is gone?

Dunno why any indie talent would pick WWE over AEW when NXT (the show they'll be stuck on initially) is far more the second tier show than the indie/mainstream crossover dealio it is now..

hummingofevil · « **Reply #86 on:** August 18, 2019, 09:19:16 PM »

Can’t disagree with most of that. It so obvious that it is a reactive decision and it can only be bad for all things WWE. If, as reported, the whole point of this is that Vince can claim that his developmental show out draws AEW then I genuinely think he is in for a shock and he underestimates the fan base out there that just hates him, his product and everything about them. I for one wouldn’t give that Trump supporting Saudi shill a penny of my money, directly or otherwise.

The only thing I would disagree with you is that I think if this happens such boost to AEW if they play it properly. We all know AEW is a big deal but to very lapsed or non-wrestling fan AEW is as relèvent as Impact or Beyond. But the story of the “wrestling wars“ being back is far more likely to get mainstream attention. Vince is doing AEWs work for them.

Obviously the key thing is that the AEW show needs to be great from episode 1. No fucking about just a really good wrestling show that people can get on board with straight away. Do that and don’t drop all your viewers after week 1 and this has launched them.

peanutbutter · « **Reply #87 on:** August 18, 2019, 09:26:43 PM »

Quote from: hummingofevil on August 18, 2019, 09:19:16 PM

If, as reported, the whole point of this is that Vince can claim that his developmental show out draws AEW then I genuinely think he is in for a shock and he underestimates the fan base out there that just hates him, his product and everything about them. I for one wouldn’t give that Trump supporting Saudi shill a penny of my money, directly or otherwise.

I don't now how TNT fares against USA but I wouldn't bet against NXT losing to AEW. The biggest damage for WWE at that point would still be that they've traded in the system that generated the bulk of core audience enthusiasm (which is something they are horrifically short of and continue to undervalue) over the past few years to win a ratings war that was totally irrelevant.

Quote

The only thing I would disagree with you is that I think if this happens such boost to AEW if they play it properly. We all know AEW is a big deal but to very lapsed or non-wrestling fan AEW is as relèvent as Impact or Beyond. But the story of the “wrestling wars“ being back is far more likely to get mainstream attention. Vince is doing AEWs work for them.

Obviously the key thing is that the AEW show needs to be great from episode 1. No fucking about just a really good wrestling show that people can get on board with straight away. Do that and don’t drop all your viewers after week 1 and this has launched them.

Not so sure about this, a live side by side comparison might really badly expose their production shortcomings, and I imagine guys like the Bucks are very prone to get absorbed with the whole ratings war nonsense too in a way that could harm their ability to just make a solid product.

Ultimately, I think a lot of it is down to how much Vince fucks up NXT though. He could do things to kill support in that brand almost instantly, and it has been on the wane the last year or so regardless.

hummingofevil · « **Reply #88 on:** August 19, 2019, 03:10:59 AM »

Quote from: peanutbutter on August 18, 2019, 09:26:43 PM

Not so sure about this, a live side by side comparison might really badly expose their production shortcomings, and I imagine guys like the Bucks are very prone to get absorbed with the whole ratings war nonsense too in a way that could harm their ability to just make a solid product.

AEW production will be fine (if you mean the actual production and not a euphemism for the whole show). They have had plenty of trial runs witht the PPVs and they have loads of people in production and behind the scenes who have done this stuff plenty of times before. They just need to keep it simple and make sure what that it works. And it literally can't be any worse than the WWE in ring production that is broadly unwatchable thanks to Kevin Dunn which is a style NXT producers are told to mimick.

It's pretty obvious that AEW's weakness is when they are going down the BTE and comedy side of things (which does nothing much for me) but as far as a 2 hour TV show goes they will have plenty of time from fans to work it out. They need to be allowed to make mistakes at first. They a company that can potentially include everything from DDT type comedy matches to old-school NWA classics and the balance is going to be tricky to find.

As for AEW getting involved in a ratings war? Oh fuck it. Bring it on. I do find that stuff funny. Their fans love them giving the WWE shit and it's Vince that has decided to raise the stakes to a ridiculous level, potentially sacrificing his own Network and best show in the process. A few sideways glances is fine.

---

In other news Jim Cornette says he has been in talks with Billy Corgan about doing the N.W.A. tv tapings in Atlanta. I'll be amazed if it even gets to the popularity of GCW and Beyond but Cornette commentary and The Crockett Cup NWA ring visuals is something that definitely could find a niche. If you have no idea what I am talking about then this, basically, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmX_cqa-QPU

cliggg · « **Reply #89 on:** August 19, 2019, 10:29:45 AM »

Cody said a while back that they have 6 months of storylines already mapped out, I don't know if he meant for the entire roster or for the top guys. One thing I don't think people are taking into account is that very few if any people involved in AEW have the experience of running a weekly touring wrestling show all year round. That means dealing with all the production side of it, making sure the crew get to the venue with the equipment a few days early to set it all up, making sure the wrestlers and other on air personalities get there on time and know what they are doing, dealing with sudden injuries, disciplinary issues, insurance, they say they will let their contracted performers wrestle for other promotions if they want but what if they get injured on that show?, they say the schedule will be lighter (they are looking to do 100-120 shows per year total) which means less money for the performers which may make some work more for other promotions which increases the risk of injury, dealing with wrestler egos and dealing with whatever WWE throws at them.

I sound like a miserable cunt because I am but I also really want AEW to survive and thrive, it's all new and exciting now but wait until a few months into it when they have to deal with all of the above and more, that's when we'll see the makings of them.

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Author Topic: Wrestling: Probs mostly about AEW TNT debut and Smackdown on Fox (Read 125856 times)