Author Topic: Jez or Mark?  (Read 3775 times)

grassbath

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Re: Jez or Mark?
« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2019, 06:50:38 PM »
It's fitting that Jez screws people over on a low cunning level, mainly self preservation whereas Mark has the one big and far more profound fuck up of entering a marriage that is obviously wrong out of duty, vague notions of it being the thing to do to be a real human being, and partly due to potential financial benefits. Also probably to make a point after Sophie was unobtainable for so long.

Very different forms of arseholery.

Yeah, this is why I think mark is worse - his sociopathy and manipulation is much more 'long game' and insidious. Things like jolting Sophie are much more hurtful to those around him in the long run because of how long he's allowed his cowardice and manipulation to fester. He is fundamentally more intelligent than Jez and has a better understanding of how the world works, but presses on with his dodgy motives anyway. Jez is always just chasing the next thrill.

purlieu

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Re: Jez or Mark?
« Reply #31 on: August 13, 2019, 07:34:45 PM »
Mark's nastiness is not only more thought-out, but he always tries to find an ethical way to justify it. Jez is much more in-the-moment and knows he's a bit of a selfish knob. I'm not sure if one's actions are worse than the others, but Mark's self-awareness makes him more dislikable for me.

Interesting that series 4 now falls under the classic series banner, at the time it was seen as a proper jump-the-shark moment. It's still my least favourite of all nine, even though it's only the first three I'd call classic.

H-O-W-L

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Re: Jez or Mark?
« Reply #32 on: August 13, 2019, 11:17:16 PM »
Raol Moat

Re: Jez or Mark?
« Reply #33 on: August 13, 2019, 11:33:58 PM »
See, I disagree with the idea that Mark is somehow scheming his way into all these situations.  He mostly ends up in them because he has no backbone and little self-worth, occasionally trying to get whatever he can out of the misery (trying to go ahead with marrying Sophie because "maybe we'd be happy in a cottage").  Then again, I watched it all with an ex for her first time, and while I concluded that Sophie was actually a pretty horrible person from the start and only became more transparently so once the veil had lifted from Mark's eyes, she was far more on the side of Mark being the bad guy in every instance.  Naturally, we broke up shortly afterwards, it was unworkable.

I dunno, Jez definitely seems more pathologically selfish and scheming (to the point of ruining at least three other people's relationships), but he's more ineffectual I suppose.

Interesting that series 4 now falls under the classic series banner, at the time it was seen as a proper jump-the-shark moment. It's still my least favourite of all nine, even though it's only the first three I'd call classic.

The rot was setting in by then, I could do without half of the episodes really, but the final episode would have been a great series finale.

imitationleather

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Re: Jez or Mark?
« Reply #34 on: August 13, 2019, 11:35:36 PM »
Everyone relates to Mark more surely? He has the thoughts of a real person. Jez is more like someone else.

You only think this because you are like Mark. I've never identified with Mark at all, but Jez is an almost perfect portrayal of a side of me that is not very good.

Re: Jez or Mark?
« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2019, 07:09:34 AM »
True. Perhaps the fact that I not only relate more to Mark but assume everyone else must be the same as me, is itself revealing. But hey! This isn't about me...
The fact we can have this sort of in depth discussion about the characters really proves Peep Show's quality I think.
You never get anyone subjecting the characters in Watching, That's My Boy or Never the Twain to such scrutiny.

Kalabi

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Re: Jez or Mark?
« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2019, 11:40:18 AM »
I always thought the "mummy, coffee, fucky hurry uppy" line from Jez was a bit harsh for his character, but it was very funny.

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Re: Jez or Mark?
« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2019, 12:52:52 PM »
Interesting that series 4 now falls under the classic series banner, at the time it was seen as a proper jump-the-shark moment. It's still my least favourite of all nine, even though it's only the first three I'd call classic.

Was series 4 when they did the dog-eating wackiness?  I certainly feel it lost its grip on reality at that point.

pancreas

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Re: Jez or Mark?
« Reply #38 on: August 14, 2019, 01:29:01 PM »
If anyone, I'm Jeff.

Re: Jez or Mark?
« Reply #39 on: August 14, 2019, 02:49:31 PM »
I'm Dobby.

FerriswheelBueller

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Re: Jez or Mark?
« Reply #40 on: August 14, 2019, 03:28:28 PM »
I’m undoubtedly Alan Johnson

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Re: Jez or Mark?
« Reply #41 on: August 14, 2019, 04:21:22 PM »
I'm the crunchy nut cornflakes

petrilTanaka

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Re: Jez or Mark?
« Reply #42 on: August 14, 2019, 10:55:45 PM »
I'm Ed Winchester

Re: Jez or Mark?
« Reply #43 on: August 14, 2019, 11:57:12 PM »
If anyone, I'm Jeff.

Are you sure you're not the musician who pays people in trainers to wank them off?

FerriswheelBueller

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Re: Jez or Mark?
« Reply #44 on: August 15, 2019, 12:16:15 AM »
Are you sure you're not the musician who pays people in trainers to wank them off?

The Orgazoid?

Edit: who is Big Suze?
« Last Edit: August 15, 2019, 01:46:22 AM by FerriswheelBueller »

Re: Jez or Mark?
« Reply #45 on: August 15, 2019, 12:57:09 AM »
I’m Mark’s racist mate from work that goes to war re-enactments and makes Mark try and order a Chinky.

monkfromhavana

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Re: Jez or Mark?
« Reply #46 on: August 15, 2019, 01:01:21 PM »
I'm the bloke mark spurns at Rainbow Rhythms.

Re: Jez or Mark?
« Reply #47 on: August 15, 2019, 05:56:20 PM »
Sometimes David Mitchell's charisma gets in the way of seeing Mark more objectively. If we just looked at his behaviour I'm not sure whether you could say he was particularly preferable to Jez

Re: Jez or Mark?
« Reply #48 on: August 15, 2019, 06:10:43 PM »
Sometimes David Mitchell's charisma gets in the way of seeing Mark more objectively. If we just looked at his behaviour I'm not sure whether you could say he was particularly preferable to Jez

I liked the thread we had where there was a considerable move to nominate Jeff as the only decent person.

Re: Jez or Mark?
« Reply #49 on: August 15, 2019, 06:30:56 PM »
Mark is the kind of person who would post on a comedy forum.

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Re: Jez or Mark?
« Reply #50 on: August 15, 2019, 07:23:08 PM »
Question:  when you watch Peep Show, who do you consider to be the main character?

imitationleather

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Re: Jez or Mark?
« Reply #51 on: August 15, 2019, 07:35:28 PM »
Question:  when you watch Peep Show, who do you consider to be the main character?

Definitely Mark. Jez is more sidekick-like. Albeit a sidekick who gets his own series-long arcs. Which are about him trying and failing with a new woman every single time.

Got to respect them not trying anything different over the course of nine whole series.

Re: Jez or Mark?
« Reply #52 on: August 15, 2019, 07:49:09 PM »
I felt the only time Jez and Mark were totally equal protagonists was series 2 with the Nancy arc. In that series (also nearly inarguably the best) it really feels like a totally equal two hander. In everything else (esp around the middle series 4-5) Jez is various degrees of sidelined and sidekicked to Mark.

imitationleather

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Re: Jez or Mark?
« Reply #53 on: August 15, 2019, 07:51:40 PM »
I felt the only time Jez and Mark were totally equal protagonists was series 2 with the Nancy arc. In that series (also nearly inarguably the best) it really feels like a totally equal two hander. In everything else (esp around the middle series 4-5) Jez is various degrees of sidelined and sidekicked to Mark.

The one where Jez comes along to stay at Sophie's parents' because "we see you as part of the family" was both ropey writing and almost acknowledging that they were beginning to struggle to not make it Mark's show.

QDRPHNC

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Re: Jez or Mark?
« Reply #54 on: August 15, 2019, 08:02:08 PM »
The one where Jez comes along to stay at Sophie's parents' because "we see you as part of the family" was both ropey writing and almost acknowledging that they were beginning to struggle to not make it Mark's show.

Peep Show is full of that though. No matter what happens to Mark and Jez, somehow Hans, Johnson, Sophie and Jeff seem to be there. Big part of what made the later series so poor.

Re: Jez or Mark?
« Reply #55 on: August 15, 2019, 08:26:25 PM »
And the one where they have Mark's family over for Christmas in their pokey flat.

Re: Jez or Mark?
« Reply #56 on: August 15, 2019, 09:09:43 PM »
And the one where they have Mark's family over for Christmas in their pokey flat.

Yeah, that was a real low-point.  Aside from the lazy sitcom set-up, it was a real bummer to actually see Mark's dad.  There's a character who would've benefited greatly from never being revealed (see also Kenneth's "mom's friend Ron" in 30 Rock).

FerriswheelBueller

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Re: Jez or Mark?
« Reply #57 on: August 15, 2019, 10:29:59 PM »
Peep Show is full of that though. No matter what happens to Mark and Jez, somehow Hans, Johnson, Sophie and Jeff seem to be there. Big part of what made the later series so poor.

I agree some of the characterizations and scenarios were wide of the mark (laptop in a strip club?!) but the later series weren’t poor exactly. Peep Show worked because the observations were so relatable and the one-liners were so sharp (as well as great performances all round).

The odd storyline was shonky and made no sense (Australian Saz moving in with Mark for half an episode), but it still had “you’ve seen London now, you’ll want to be getting on, see the North... there’s an Anzac memorial in Huddersfield...”

Edit: to add, the Christmas family episode was a bit of a clanger and the ending didn’t make sense (why is Mark so happy his dad has stormed off and they’ve had a shouting match?) but even that had enough little lines that made it watchable.

Re: Jez or Mark?
« Reply #58 on: August 15, 2019, 10:41:25 PM »
Why must you demand realism?! One of the greatest episodes of Seinfeld (the most relatable comedy of all time) features Kramer, without explanation, having an unacknowledged one-episode mental breakdown and hosting The Merv Griffin Show from his apartment to an imaginary audience.

dr beat

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Re: Jez or Mark?
« Reply #59 on: August 15, 2019, 10:42:35 PM »
I'm aware I'm in a minority but I really like the Xmas episode and I thought Clive Merrison was perfect as Mark's dad.  Convincingly both a small man and an overbearing ogre.