Boris Johnson planning to prorogue parliament [split topic]

[Huxleys Babkins]

Are these ministers going to resign in protest at the very least?

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1166672537893462016

Some serious disquiet in Govt now about the strategy. One senior minister tells me: "I don't think No10 really understands that if we don't have the MPs then we dont have control. I think it is 50/50 what happens next".

Possibly...

[thugler]

Define 'work'; What are the great successes attributable to protest in, say, the last 20 years?

Not solely due to protests no. But to deny their influence on virtually all the progress we have achieved is idiotic. Just because I'm incapable of solving climate change on my own doesn't mean myself not burning tires on my back garden is a pointless waste of time. Even when protest 'fails' it shows public opposition to unpopular government decisions which are part of the historical record.

[Famous Mortimer]

I voted to leave, as well. There's no objective reason the leave process has been this fucking shite, though. That's the fault of the fuckwits in the government.

[thugler]

I voted to leave, as well. There's no objective reason the leave process has been this fucking shite, though. That's the fault of the fuckwits in the government.

Just out of interest what flavour of (achievable) leave would you have been happy with? What was the most important aspect for you?

[Fambo Number Mive]

That one to revoke A50 that got over 6 million signatures must have done, surely? According to Sky News, "At one point, nearly 2,000 signatures were being added every minute and it was so popular that the website crashed."

Wouldn't be surprised if this one rivals it; seems to be growing at close to 1500/minute currently and lots of people won't have heard of it yet.

Good point, I forgot about that one.

[Paul Calf]

Not solely due to protests no. But to deny their influence on virtually all the progress we have achieved is idiotic.

To ask for some evidence of that influence is not idiotic.

[bgmnts]

Wait, did hippy protest end Vietnam? I always assumed they just got out because it was a no win situation.

[Paul Calf]

Boomers gonna boom.

[sponk]

Wait, did hippy protest end Vietnam? I always assumed they just got out because it was a no win situation.

It definitely helped bring the war to an end

[phantom_power]

Obviously the best way to deal with this is to be a cynical snide cunt on an internet forum

[bgmnts]

It definitely helped bring the war to an end

Help is vague.

[Paul Calf]

Obviously the best way to deal with this is to be a cynical snide cunt on an internet forum

Sorry, are you talking to me? Is objecting to a strategy of failure and futility and suggesting that there might be better ways to deal with this constitutional emergency 'being a snide cunt'?

Go and fuck yourself.

[H-O-W-L]

Wait, did hippy protest end Vietnam? I always assumed they just got out because it was a no win situation.

Very naive to think that. It came down to the wire where supporting it, as a politician, was career suicide. There's a reason LBJ is scorned and Ford is remembered relatively cooly in contrast to one another, and why Nixon would probably have been remembered more favorably by some were it not for Watergate.

[phantom_power]

Sorry, are you talking to me? Is objecting to a strategy of failure and futility and suggesting that there might be better ways to deal with this constitutional emergency 'being a snide cunt'?

Go and fuck yourself.

Sorry, must have missed the bit where you put forward your suggestions of better ways to deal with this

[thugler]

To ask for some evidence of that influence is not idiotic.

What like a politician saying 'we did this because there was a protest' not like that no. What evidence are you asking for exactly? It's not as simple as you make out

[Paul Calf]

What like a politician saying 'we did this because there was a protest' not like that no. What evidence are you asking for exactly? It's not as simple as you make out

The evidence that led you to come to the conclusion that you have. All I've seen is three decades of politicians successfully ignoring peaceful protest.

[thugler]

Sorry, must have missed the bit where you put forward your suggestions of better ways to deal with this

Nor anyone saying 'we should only protest and do nothing else'. Every option available should be taken.

[Paul Calf]

Calling people on the internet cunts is probably the best strategy I've seen.

[thugler]

The evidence that led you to come to the conclusion that you have. All I've seen is three decades of politicians successfully ignoring peaceful protest.

It raises the issue on the agenda, draws media and public attention, puts pressure on those involved (to an extent). These things are comparably subtle compared to violent insurrection but arent irrelevant. How about this as one example https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velvet_Revolution

[BlodwynPig]

I love these rapid FBPEs going down with the ship now

https://twitter.com/francesbarber13/status/1166698037927972864

Our very own Louis Barfe in the comments there

[Kalabi]

Calling people on the internet cunts is probably the best strategy I've seen.

It's certainly popular

[BlodwynPig]

It raises the issue on the agenda, draws media and public attention, puts pressure on those involved (to an extent). These things are comparably subtle compared to violent insurrection but arent irrelevant. How about this as one example https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velvet_Revolution

Diffrn't times.

[Clatty McCutcheon]

She said something like "Quick. Everyone write a letter to the Queen. She's in Balmoral today."

I'm reminded of William Topaz McGonagall walking from Dundee to Balmoral in the supreme confidence that he would be granted an audience with Queen Vicky to perform his dreadful poetry, only to be told to get to fuck.

[jobotic]

Poll Tax demos were quite effective weren't they? Along with mass non-payment.

[Famous Mortimer]

Just out of interest what flavour of (achievable) leave would you have been happy with? What was the most important aspect for you?

The first half of your question is sort-of missing the point - I didn't vote Leave (and neither did anyone else) based on how difficult or otherwise it would be to get out of the EU. I would have assumed there'd be some discussions about how the law would work with EU Directives and all that, discussions about how to treat EU nationals who were already living here, that sort of thing.

I wanted out because the EU is a bosses' club which is absolutely not a good thing for your average British (or Greek, or Irish, or any other country) citizen. The push to privatization of more and more stuff, the anti-union thing...Greece, as a condition of its latest "bailout", has been forced to introduce laws against strike action even worse than those in Britain...there's a fairly dry but info-packed article about it here - http://www.tuaeu.co.uk/the-terrible-tale-of-the-eu-and-trade-union-rights/

I'm not naive enough to think everyone voted Leave for these reasons, but this idea that the EU is some lovely cuddly protector of our rights is bollocks. Rather than hoping the EU will help us, we should stop electing fucking Tories, or pretending any of the anti-Corbyn stuff that gets treated as fact is anything other than propaganda to keep him out of No.10.

[Paul Calf]

Poll Tax demos were quite effective weren't they? Along with mass non-payment.

Yeah. That and the Velvet Revolution: I think it was more the mass civil disobedience and (in the case of the Poll Tax) the rioting and mass non-payment rather than the placards and chants that made the difference there.

[Buelligan]

It raises the issue on the agenda, draws media and public attention, puts pressure on those involved (to an extent). These things are comparably subtle compared to violent insurrection but arent irrelevant.

I also think one should never underestimate the herding instinct present in many humans.  Not many of them want to stand up to be counted unless they can see all the others doing it.  This is absolutely true and is a big part in why I get so aerated about people using words like antisemite so freely.  Lots of humans need emboldening both to do good and bad.  I think we know this,

[thugler]

The first half of your question is sort-of missing the point - I didn't vote Leave (and neither did anyone else) based on how difficult or otherwise it would be to get out of the EU. I would have assumed there'd be some discussions about how the law would work with EU Directives and all that, discussions about how to treat EU nationals who were already living here, that sort of thing.

I wanted out because the EU is a bosses' club which is absolutely not a good thing for your average British (or Greek, or Irish, or any other country) citizen. The push to privatization of more and more stuff, the anti-union thing...Greece, as a condition of its latest "bailout", has been forced to introduce laws against strike action even worse than those in Britain...there's a fairly dry but info-packed article about it here - http://www.tuaeu.co.uk/the-terrible-tale-of-the-eu-and-trade-union-rights/

I'm not naive enough to think everyone voted Leave for these reasons, but this idea that the EU is some lovely cuddly protector of our rights is bollocks. Rather than hoping the EU will help us, we should stop electing fucking Tories, or pretending any of the anti-Corbyn stuff that gets treated as fact is anything other than propaganda to keep him out of No.10.

Somewhat agree, however in reality i think there's an awful lot of bad that goes along with leaving as well, particularly as it likely means joining another 'bosses club' to some extent or another. I think we could have defied the rules on privatization etc without horrendous penalty also. I still see opportunity for reform when there is quite widespread discontent with parts of eu membership.

[thugler]

Yeah. That and the Velvet Revolution: I think it was more the mass civil disobedience and (in the case of the Poll Tax) the rioting and mass non-payment rather than the placards and chants that made the difference there.

WHERES THE EVIDENECCCE!?!!11

[jobotic]

Yeah. That and the Velvet Revolution: I think it was more the mass civil disobedience and (in the case of the Poll Tax) the rioting and mass non-payment rather than the placards and chants that made the difference there.

I know. People didn't just run out of their houses and riot though did they?