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Bill Burr - Paper Tiger

Started by up_the_hampipe, August 29, 2019, 07:47:44 PM

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Quote from: Noodle Lizard on September 13, 2019, 12:29:03 AM
See, I don't know if I'd call Burr a conservative, or many of the others you mentioned "libertarian" in any particularly conservative form.  People like Carlin, Hicks and Stanhope (despite formerly identifying as libertarian) espouse traditionally liberal viewpoints far more often than anything approaching conservative - and with the latter two that's usually more along the lines of being pro-drugs/-smoking.  In Carlin's case, I dunno, criticizing PC language?  In my experience, they're pretty indistinguishable from the majority of left-wingers I knew pre-social media.  Stanhope has bits that are pro-choice, pro-immigration, pro-mental healthcare, pro-gay, anti-war ... all of which are viewpoints that cross over between some liberals and some libertarians.  Where would Louis CK fall on that spectrum?  I'd be interested to hear more about what you think.

I think I'd see Carlin & Hicks as left-leaning libertarians rather than conservative - a lot of pro-individual rights stuff & anything government-run or led (and you can include organised religion in there I think) being suspicious or a negative.  Burr & Stanhope I'd view as more right-leaning libertarians.

Re Louis CK, I think a lot of the above applies also - didn't he once express that his opinions fall into both liberal and conservative camps, which is pretty much how a lot of American libertarians self-identify?  Fantastic stand-up too - but tainted in the way that only public onanism can taint a person.

None of this makes it true other than from my own viewpoint, of course - I'd completely understand if this is coming across as gibberish - though I do think that there may be something in the mindset that translates really well into excellent stand-up comedy: it allows the stand-up to take pot-shots in all directions whilst maintaining a consistent worldview; stand-up is an art form which by its nature allows the auteur to blossom; and it means that the stand-up remains the underdog, as it is them against the world.

Noodle Lizard

I think there's "libertarian" (card-carrying, Ron Paul libtertarian) and then there are people who don't fit neatly into either "liberal" or "conservative" camps.  I'd probably ascribe the latter to Stanhope/Burr/South Park.  I can't think of a particularly right-wing perspective Stanhope has shared, for instance, aside from generally being "un-PC", which doesn't really say much about someone's beliefs at the end of the day.  I used to classify myself as something of a "libertarian" when I thought that meant having a mish-mash of different political ideas that couldn't easily be called "liberal" or "conservative", but there's a fair bit more to it than that - certainly in today's climate.  Stanhope is pretty far from anyone's idea of a conservative, and Burr is closer to a conspiracy-theorist liberal from the Bush era than any kind of conservative I could name.  The South Park lads ... they seem like the types who are pissed off by anything pretentious or holier-than-thou, and that could come from either camp.  Since the 2000s, it's largely come from the left-leaning camp - at least in LA, where they've been for the past couple of decades.  There's a very different "tone" to liberalism here.

Hicks and Carlin ... I mean, the time must have something to do with that, right?  Hicks has been dead since the early 90s, and Carlin was born in the 30s and far past the age where his perspective was going to change significantly by that time too.  Hicks's pro-smoking material would probably get him yelled at now, but at the time I expect many uni-aged liberals ate it all up as they smoked theirs.  Carlin, I think, was overwhelmingly liberal.  Certainly gained a reputation for that, anyway.  He didn't make it to the social media liberal era, and I'm sure some of his material might upset them now, but I'd consider him among the more influential liberal comedians in general.

Perhaps I'm defensive because I love them all!  I love a couple of comedians who are pretty overtly righter-on-the-wing too.  But I feel the need to defend Carlin/Hicks/Stanhope especially against that kind of labelling, simply because I don't think it's accurate.

'Libertarian' is a tricky term because a person can be both of the left and be one, or of the right and be one.  Ron Paul's libertarianism is closer to Stanhope & Burr and Parker & Stone (I'm not sure if Trey Parker is still a member of the Libertarian Party - though he was at one point) but I'd still feel comfortable describing Carlin & Hicks's comedy as left-libertarian.  It is still about emphasising freedom of choice & the right of the individual to be a fuck-up as well as being at best sceptical or at worst cynical about the positive role of government (or any other collective of power).

I should emphasise that I mentioned them because they rank amongst my absolute favourites also - there's little they've done that I haven't enjoyed.  I'm genuinely not trying to rankle anyone with my description of those men as 'libertarians' - and of course, it doesn't necessarily follow that the comedian is giving you a literal account of their views on stage.

I just find it amuses me that in everything else I'd describe myself as somewhere between a democratic socialist and a social democrat - but in terms of the comics I love, my politics haven't really sculpted my taste.

Noodle Lizard

Oh not at all, I didn't mean to suggest you were rankling me (or anyone else), I was just curious as to why you'd described certain comics that way when it certainly never occurred to me to describe Carlin or Hicks as "libertarian" personalities.  I understand completely where you're coming from, and I think we agree, but maybe we use different terminology to describe the overall persona of certain comics.

Since moving to the US, and maybe since the early 2010s in general, "libertarian" has become a sort of dirty word for me.  It feels far more associated with "alt-righty" tendencies and activity than anything I think these comics were trying to espouse.  There's not much I disagree with Carlin or Stanhope on, and I suppose I still don't quite know how to politically identify myself, but I know I'm not very similar at all to the out-and-out libertarians I've met here.

Ah, I see where you're coming from!  I didn't realise it had started to change in definition - yeah, they're definitely not 'alt-right' (which is simply fascism with a 21st Century name as far as I can tell). I meant it descriptively not pejoratively - though I can well imagine that 'alt-right' nutcases would use a more acceptable term to define themselves on the darker recesses of reddit.  Like North Korea calling itself the Democratic People's Republic. 

oy vey

Quote from: StewartLeehaslethimselfgo on September 12, 2019, 10:23:51 PM
Stopped after 15 mins does it get any better?

Hur durr metoo went too far hur durr gender neutral hur durr get back in the kitchen hur durr people are offended about everything, PC gone mad Stew

Was exactly what I imagine Ricky Gervais' latest stand up content is (cant even bare to hate watch it)

Funny, I was thinking how different they are in temperament and talent. Here's a clip from Bill in PT...

"You guys know Brian Cranston right? That dude played a quadriplegic..." routine continues.

Ricky (as Bill) would be: "You guys know Brian Cranston right? Acted along side me in a little show called Breaking Bad (Brent face)" cunt audience laughter, Ricky pretends the front row is talking to him "Best television show of all time? Stop it mate" cunt laughter "I was only in a few episodes madam but thank you. I was an integral part of the plot yeah." (see how I'm really poking fun at myself cunts?) cunt laughter Ricky points to his Brent face "Versatile, innit?" routine continues at 10% comedic value.

It showed me how little Bill gives a fuck about how people see him compared with Brent.

Sorry, to answer your question, yes it gets better so press resume and see how you go.

BritishHobo

I love Bill Burr, but how the fuck is he getting away with material as shit and tired as 'going to a women's march and shouting 'get back in the kitchen!'? If you saw that on reddit you'd think 'bloody hell, standards are slipping round here, aren't they'.

Whug Baspin

#37
Quote from: BritishHoboI love Bill Burr, but how the fuck is he getting away with material as shit and tired as 'going to a women's march and shouting 'get back in the kitchen!'? If you saw that on reddit you'd think 'bloody hell, standards are slipping round here, aren't they'.

Watched it with my wife and that was the only bit that caused her to laugh uncontrollably, so it does seem to work, it's funny imagery, especially in the context of his own angry madness.

up_the_hampipe

Quote from: BritishHobo on September 13, 2019, 01:17:14 PM
I love Bill Burr, but how the fuck is he getting away with material as shit and tired as 'going to a women's march and shouting 'get back in the kitchen!'? If you saw that on reddit you'd think 'bloody hell, standards are slipping round here, aren't they'.

Probably gets away with it because of his much better material. It was an eye-roller, but I don't get hung up on a couple of bad jokes in an hour special.

dunelm

Quote from: up_the_hampipe on September 13, 2019, 01:32:41 PM
Probably gets away with it because of his much better material. It was an eye-roller, but I don't get hung up on a couple of bad jokes in an hour special.

Quite. Pointing out the weeds next to the Taj Mahal.

Also, I took it as a tongue in cheek, laughing at himself for making such a stupid hick comment.

Quote from: BritishHobo on September 13, 2019, 01:17:14 PM
I love Bill Burr, but how the fuck is he getting away with material as shit and tired as 'going to a women's march and shouting 'get back in the kitchen!'? If you saw that on reddit you'd think 'bloody hell, standards are slipping round here, aren't they'.
The first 20 mins were like a YouTube comment under a Paul Joseph Watson video from a 4channer with Pepe the frog avatar, just the most basic low hanging fruit done to death anti-SJW unoriginality

Will give the rest a watch later

oy vey

Quote from: dunelm on September 13, 2019, 02:19:14 PM
Quite. Pointing out the weeds next to the Taj Mahal.

Also, I took it as a tongue in cheek, laughing at himself for making such a stupid hick comment.

Exactly. Bill's guffaw at himself (one of the greatest sounds on the planet today) shows he's including himself in the mix. And of course he's pricking the air out of these cultural hot air balloons as opposed to just being a prick. Besides, the ironic prick shtick annoys me these days thanks to Brent. It's nice to see someone hanging out as an unapologetic happy/angry confused/wise base/deep poignant/flippant human in all his complexities.

p.s. PT gets even better on a re-watch. Lovely stuff.

madhair60

Not surprised how badly this show is being misrepresented on social media.

He's the joke. His aggressive idiocy and wrongheadedness is the joke. There are more than enough moments of introspection, of the tension being popped by self-awareness, to make this obvious. If you've actually seen it.

dunelm

Quote from: madhair60 on September 13, 2019, 06:41:06 PM
He's the joke. His aggressive idiocy and wrongheadedness is the joke. There are more than enough moments of introspection, of the tension being popped by self-awareness, to make this obvious. If you've actually seen it.

Context is everything. Just quoting one line out of an entire show misses soo much, pretty much everything.

You can sense his frustration after he gets a slight heckle when somebody that has misinterpreted his true intent. Obviously not the first time.

Quote from: madhair60 on September 13, 2019, 06:41:06 PM
Not surprised how badly this show is being misrepresented on social media.

He's the joke. His aggressive idiocy and wrongheadedness is the joke. There are more than enough moments of introspection, of the tension being popped by self-awareness, to make this obvious. If you've actually seen it.

Well put.

Twit 2

He does those big hearty chuckles as he's delivering all the awful stuff. He is openly trolling the sort of people who will take a knee jerk response to boos their ego. Plus he's a fan of Norm Macdonald's not giving a fuck attitude:

https://youtu.be/RjC5U8V4TxA

Very rare and refreshing to see a comic take risks and just say what they want. I also echo the opinion that he seems like a thoughtful guy trying his best at life. His stuff on shitty childhood and adult male rage is spot on and had me wincing in recognition as much as it made me laugh. This was a great show.

rasta-spouse

I didn't really get the first 20mins of this, and was surprised that a middle-class London audience were laughing at it. It wasn't clever or original enough to be funny, and also it wasn't stupid or moronic enough to be funny. Seemed like boilerplate contrarianism with a dated attitude.

Not really that familiar with Burr though, but I did note that when challenged on some of his material by Goldsmith on ComComPod he struggled to make a coherent response. Is he being ironic? Or are we supposed to think "Oh Bill, you can have these thoughts because you're such a character".   And the guy who heckles him with "you're supposed to ask for consent!" - was that a joke? Bill's response isn't that clear, but suggests everything he's saying was a joke. If it was a joke, then make it funny man.

Ansari's ten minutes on #metoo in his latest special are much more interesting, nuanced and thoughtful - probably due to his personal involvement.

Sin Agog

men cant be men anymore. should change our name to min or mon. maybe mun?

Mr Faineant

Quote from: oy vey on September 13, 2019, 05:48:31 PM
he's pricking the air out of these cultural hot air balloons as opposed to just being a prick.

I like this sentence.

NJ Uncut

Quote from: Sin Agog on September 13, 2019, 10:08:49 PM
men cant be men anymore. should change our name to min or mon. maybe mun?

Mmmmn.

easytarget

He's gotten even more hacky since No Cure For Cancer.

cliggg

I thought this was mostly boring, his voice grated on me, he shouted way too much and he said nothing I haven't heard him say on stage before. Other than that it was ok I guess.

whatabulb

Quote from: rasta-spouse on September 13, 2019, 08:51:06 PM
I didn't really get the first 20mins of this, and was surprised that a middle-class London audience were laughing at it. It wasn't clever or original enough to be funny, and also it wasn't stupid or moronic enough to be funny. Seemed like boilerplate contrarianism with a dated attitude.


i saw it live and i can assure you that around 20 mins in there were a lot of very stony faced women in my row of seats at least.  you drop 100 on some tickets for the comedy big shot and he returns the favour for you like that - listening to "so THATS what you consider FUNNY??!" the whole drive home haha

Hank Venture

I thought it was pretty funny. Yeah, some parts in the beginning were a bit naff, but other than that I liked them.

cliggg

Bill was on Theo Von's podcast this week and gave him a bit of a hard time. Nothing too bad but if you want somebody to sit in front of you and sympathise with you then Bill probably isn't the guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIm7Xza3beg