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Nintendo Switch: Thread 2: The Drift

Started by madhair60, September 05, 2019, 11:28:36 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

are you a Switch Bitch

Yes
48 (60.8%)
No
6 (7.6%)
Raoul Moat
25 (31.6%)

Total Members Voted: 79

popcorn

Quote from: colacentral on March 29, 2018, 08:29:37 PM
I hate to say it, and I feel like a cunt for doing so, but: I really think alot of the critical voices are just playing it wrong.

Quote from: colacentral on July 13, 2018, 08:35:37 AM
Well, you were playing it wrong

Quote from: colacentral on April 10, 2020, 07:42:16 PM
I'm not trying to say anyone is playing it wrong

Apology ACCEPTED.


popcorn

Quote from: colacentral on April 10, 2020, 07:42:16 PM
I agree with this and it seems that the dividing line on BotW opinions is whether or not you approach it as a game to be completed. To me it was almost a hiking sim, a place to wander around pissing about and discovering things. For me, finding the shrines was the game and the puzzles within were the reward. I think people who approach the game with the opposite mind set, of finding shrines as busy work and the game itself being a series of levels (as a traditional zelda), you're going to get less out of it.

I think this is probably a fair reflection of how I approached the game. The world was impressive and charming, but I didn't find it interesting enough on its own terms to wander around in without much direction - unlike, say, the worlds of Shenmue 1 and 2. I kept myself entertained by pursuing the main goals. I feel I did plenty of shrines and sidequests but found them quite dull, to the extent that when I was saving up hearts to get the master sword it felt like I was just grinding. I was glad when I finished it.

The thing is, there is no universe where I played the game for another 40 hours, allowing myself to just soak up the mood or whatever, and liked it more. It just wasn't there for me.

Mango Chimes

Both joysticks now fucked. Not now, Nintendo. I've got a fucking cherry forest to plant, I can't go four weeks without controllers.

colacentral

Quote from: popcorn on April 10, 2020, 08:17:33 PM
Apology ACCEPTED.

Yeah, I wrote that last post with you in mind specifically. The thing is, I don't intend offence by saying you're playing it wrong, I just mean that the frame of mind of the ideal player is not typical of what I think that sort of game usually is. I'm not articulate enough to describe it any other way.

popcorn

#424
Quote from: colacentral on April 10, 2020, 08:50:29 PM
Yeah, I wrote that last post with you in mind specifically. The thing is, I don't intend offence by saying you're playing it wrong, I just mean that the frame of mind of the ideal player is not typical of what I think that sort of game usually is. I'm not articulate enough to describe it any other way.

There was no offence caused don't be daft, I just think it's a wrongheaded approach to talking about entertainment/art/whatever. Which is to say you were discussing it wrong. It scans as "your experience can be discredited as user error".

I posted about this before, but the Guardian film critic and CaB punching bag Peter Bradshaw (of whom I am no fan either) got widely mocked for his Drive review, because it became apparent he'd completely misunderstood a fundamental part of the plot. That too was "user error", but I felt kind of sorry for him, because all he was doing was reporting his experience of the film, and if that part of the plot wasn't clear to him then it would be dishonest to have said anything else about it. All we can do is share our experiences really.

Dewt

I know exactly what it is now the thoughts are settling in: I like games to either mystify me (e.g. open world, emergent-gameplay games) or be very clear and predictable tests of skill or discovery (e.g. Mario, Obra Dinn). BOTW stopped mystifying me very quickly. I became aware of exactly when enemies would spawn, when things would regenerate, etc. and there was no magic left.

peanutbutter

Quote from: Dewt on April 10, 2020, 09:09:15 PM
I know exactly what it is now the thoughts are settling in: I like games to either mystify me (e.g. open world, emergent-gameplay games) or be very clear and predictable tests of skill or discovery (e.g. Mario, Obra Dinn). BOTW stopped mystifying me very quickly. I became aware of exactly when enemies would spawn, when things would regenerate, etc. and there was no magic left.
I can get this, for the most part the whole aura of the game kept me intrigued regardless for a very long time but something about the Korok seeds really put me off. They felt like they were  added in just to avoid the exploration area from feeling too sparse or something. After a while I was able to be like "that's a weird looking thing... not gonna bother heading there though cos its too noticeable, obviously just gonna be a korok seed thingy"

It legitimately might just be that I liked the music you got when you find a shrine but didn't like the music you got when you get a korok seed

Timothy

Quote from: Dewt on April 10, 2020, 09:09:15 PM
I know exactly what it is now the thoughts are settling in: I like games to either mystify me (e.g. open world, emergent-gameplay games) or be very clear and predictable tests of skill or discovery (e.g. Mario, Obra Dinn). BOTW stopped mystifying me very quickly. I became aware of exactly when enemies would spawn, when things would regenerate, etc. and there was no magic left.

Exactly how I felt about BOTW. A game thats focused on exploring is only fun if the game keeps surprising you. After a few hours BOTW stopped doing that and its world started to feel real shallow. That and the lack of interesting quests, subquests and lack of a variety of enemies.

The Shrines were great but even those started to repeat itself after a while.

Mango Chimes

It might not continue to surprise with new enemies and combat, but it does with the environment and setting. The atmosphere is incredible, and I can think of lots of "oh fuck!" moments that happened long into the game. Aside from the Divine Beasts, they're not mechanics or skill-based, but it's rich with new experiences.

Kelvin

Yes, and the actual gameplay is very varied. You aren't just walking between shrines. You're solving riddles, working out how to get the sun to shine on a certain spot, seal racing, bowling snowballs, avoiding enemies as you carry a rock roast back to a goron, firing cannons at enemy outposts, riding minecarts into a stone crab, navigating a black forest... the list goes on and on. Yes, there's too many repeated enemies and certain type of korok, etc, but compared to most open world games, it's incredibly varied and imaginative.     

Abnormal Palm

And again, to come back to the point of balance, all of these different elements feel extremely well distributed. It's a bit quiet as you wander across a plain, the sun comes from behind a cloud and sparkles across some puddles and then goes away. A little piano motif rings out. A small environmental puzzle appears in your eye line. Some bats appear. Several routes lay before you. An appealing hilltop beckons. It starts raining. You come across an enemy camp and take them out stealthily with some boulder trickery. There's a shrine poking out just around a rock. A fox darts in front of you. You arrive at a stable. You have a choice of the woods, a river cruise or scaling a clifftop. It's one little thing after another, and you always have choice after choice, with plenty of time to breathe and make your own journey. I really do think that Kind Of Blue is an excellent comparison (not mine) because there's just a enough of everything without being busy or overwhelming to let your own thoughts and feelings fill the spaces.

popcorn


Abnormal Palm

Yeah, depends what you've got in your character to fill those spaces.

popcorn

I've heard that if you have a weak character that is full of badness, then it's very easy to fill up the spaces because your character lacks the structural integrity to keep it all in one place, so you can just pull it off it great clumps and lump it into the gaps of half-baked games, a bit like how alcoholics wee into bottles of cheap wine to make them go further. Not my theory but makes sense.

popcorn

Also, I've heard that Breath of the Wild is not really like Kind of Blue, but actually more like the 1997 Genesis album Calling All Stations.

Timothy

I wanted to write a long reply but then remembered an article I read about the game which completely sums up my problems with BOTW:

https://www.hypable.com/zelda-breath-of-the-wild-boring/

QuoteIn BotW there are so many characters peppered all over the giant world; so many side-quests and personalities and functions to program in and keep track of. So many Korok seeds to collect. So many villages to visit. So many shrines to find. There is no shortage of stuff to do.

The problem is that, for all those places and people and snippets of story you encounter, the world of Breath of the Wild feels eerily empty, every interaction hollow, devoid of soul.

To me, Breath of the Wild is less Skyrim, more No Man's Sky, because most of the encounters really is just window dressing. Village, stable, random encounter and enemy elements are so clearly copy/pasted from area to area; any differences are superficial at best, and by design, interactions are shallow and inconsequential.

and

QuoteMore enjoyable open-world games like Fallout and even Skyrim (though I'd argue the former is far superior in this regard) also pepper in interesting objects and story pieces which you can examine on your journey. The world was lived in before you got there; things happened, and you can bear witness to the strangest sights and let your imagination fill in the blanks.

But Breath of the Wild manages to make even should-be unique, interesting locations like the Lost Woods and the labyrinths feel tedious, because at the end of the day, it's just more of the same monsters and more of the same inconsequential rewards. (The one, notable exception is the Eventide Island, exactly because it breaks the tedious mold.)

The world is beautiful, yes, but it's kind of like traveling through an interactive wallpaper. You can't really affect anything, and nothing you do really matters.

Couldn't agree more with this sentiment. Especially that about Eventide Island because, for me, that was one of the few highlights in the game.

If BOTW had a proper story, some good voice acting, better rewards and better quests it would have been a masterpiece.

Not saying that it's bad. It's a decent game. But imo it's nowhere as good as people make it out to be.

Edit: Edited my Charlie Parker comparison out of this comment. Made less sense then I thought. :)

Mango Chimes

I can understand complaining of the same monsters and inconsequential rewards, but to say the world doesn't feel like it was lived in before you got there is really confusing. Everything about Breath of the Wild is a world that lived and died.

In short:

Quotethe world of Breath of the Wild feels eerily empty,

Yes.

Quoteevery interaction hollow, devoid of soul.

No.

Timothy

Every interaction is kind of pointless and hollow. Apart from the two guys on Eventide Island there is imo not one memorable character in BOTW. None of the quests and sidequests seem to matter. And the characters that could be interesting are wasted due to the horrible voice acting.

peanutbutter

Possibly a dumb suggestion, but did any of the people who found the entire game hollow play it with the sound muted? Not sure it'd work at all without those big long sikences and peppered in sounds.

Im not a big fan of open world games, excessive detail but bolted on everywhere is just gonna put me off in the same way Tolkien shite does. The things botw gets right about exploring tinkering feel extremely pleasant in a way very few games have managed

petercussing

Beadle's an awesome game character even though he doesn't do much. Love that guy's squealing delight.

The music is so good too, reminds me of Bully's great soundtrack in some ways.

The voice acting is just really like English dubbed anime acting to me, which, you know is more than fine.

rack and peanut

I thought having no voice acting at all was fine though

I want to buy a Switch, to alleviate boredom in the lockdown, but they're sold out everywhere. I wonder how long I'll have to wait before Amazon/Argos/etc have one in stock. Can anybody recommend a reputable website that can deliver one to my front door? I've been placed in the "vulnerable" category so I'm not allowed to leave the house!

Abnormal Palm

Here you go, my dude:

https://www.stockinformer.co.uk/checker-nintendo-switch

Turn on notifications and they'll let you know within minutes when stock appears.

imitationleather

So I've bought Zelda and a pro controller is arriving on Saturday.

Peace out.

Kelvin

Mario Maker 2 is getting a hefty update in the next 48 hours:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NABeP5oGygM

When you look at some of the stuff they're adding, you have to assume they rushed the base game out, as there's stuff in there that feels like it's too major for an update nearly a year after the game launched. I mean, creators would have probably approached levels very differently if it started with
Spoiler alert
world maps.
[close]

Don't get me wrong; I loved MM2, but it feels like it needed a lot of this stuff at launch to really set itself apart from the original.


Excellent. I desperately wanted a world maker when the game was released, but better late than never.

I hope all the people who are really good at level making really get stuck in and we can find their Worlds easily. Can just see it getting overwhelmed by gimmicky levels/worlds spamming the new items/enemies... always a frustration. But hopefully the really good people will stick around making Worlds after that has died down.

MojoJojo

Can we just take a moment to think about how shit the Nintendo eShop is. Google a game, go to game's page. Oh it's the US region page, change to UK region - and it takes you to the front page so you have to search for the game again.

For fucks sake Nintendo. It is the space year 2020.

jobotic

Last night I managed to delete everything on BotW and now have to start again. All those shrines and towers! FFS.

And doing them again really doesn't have that much appeal. I hope I haven't fucked this game for myself.

imitationleather

I've been playing BotW for the past few evenings. When I'm doing one of the dungeons if I get bored of it can I fuck off and go do something else for a while, or do I have to see it through?