Which stand ups use writers, which are auteurs?

[EbbyVale]

I was quite surprised to find Barry Cryer did writing for Pryor as well.

I thought you might be joking but no. I don't know if that was more editing than actually writing or if Cryer is being low-key.

But Christ, Cryer gets everywhere, doesn't he?

[thenoise]

There's a documentary on one of the Tim Vine dvds where he goes to a local pub with huge packs of jokes that he tries out in front of regulars. He writes vast amounts of material, but doesn't seem to know whether it's any good or not.

He also claims that if he writes a mucky joke he sells it to someone else. No names of course, but it might be reciprocal?

[Bennett Brauer]

He also claims that if he writes a mucky joke he sells it to someone else. No names of course, but it might be reciprocal?

I remember him saying that on Richard Herring's podcast. He'd given Herring a joke that was too risqué for Vine's act, and Herring recalled sending Vine a joke (which Vine only used once or maybe not at all I think, because he thought it didn't work).  This was all years ago anyway. I doubt Vine uses writers as a rule.

[Shit Good Nose]

Jeremy Vine writes all of Tim's jokes whilst Tim writes all the questions for Eggheads.

(RIP HS Art/has let itself go, etc)

[BeardFaceMan]

I remember him saying that on Richard Herring's podcast. He'd given Herring a joke that was too risqué for Vine's act, and Herring recalled sending Vine a joke (which Vine only used once or maybe not at all I think, because he thought it didn't work).  This was all years ago anyway. I doubt Vine uses writers as a rule.

Yeah he talks a bit about this on the commentaries for his DVDs, occasionally a comic will come up to him and say "I wrote this joke, it doesnt work for me, but it would be great for you", I imagine that sort of thing goes on between comics all the time. I think Vine may write some stuff with John Archer, but the vast majotiry of material is his own.

[Gregory Torso]

I think about this when I'm watching "Jimmy Carr does Countdown" and they have to get out their shite comedy mascots, and some of them are really elaborately made and crafted props or books, just for Joe Wilkinson to shout "bollock" and throw it across the studio, I think man I bet some poor kid spent all day making that.

[Replies From View]

I lose respect for any stand-up that uses other writers.  Being funny involves having the wit and intelligence to come up with the material.  If you are using writers, you are an actor, not a comedian.  And if you are shit at it you shouldn't be earning loads of money for it so fuck off.

Seriously what excuse exists for Jimmy Carr?  What is it that warrants us being aware of him and that face?

[Sebastian Cobb]

What about using other comedians to vet your work? You write it, they tell you which bits to drop, make tighter etc?

[Replies From View]

What about using other comedians to vet your work? You write it, they tell you which bits to drop, make tighter etc?

Yeah that's fine; it makes the creative process collaborative.  That shared process should be made public though I think.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Yeah that's fine; it makes the creative process collaborative.  That shared process should be made public though I think.

Why? Should everyone who attends a work in progress get a credit too given the comedian is crowdsourcing the same thing.

[Replies From View]

Why? Should everyone who attends a work in progress get a credit too given the comedian is crowdsourcing the same thing.

No but I thought you were talking about more of an equal collaborative process just now.  A comedian coming up with all the material and getting some feedback from outside-eyes about what does and doesn't work, before only making changes that they believe will work, is a bit different, but also one tends to be aware of comedians that go through these processes of sharing work-in-progress shows and honing them over time.  So the work-in-progress element is already public.  These are not the Jimmy Carrs of this world.

[Sebastian Cobb]

No but I thought you were talking about more of an equal collaborative process just now.  A comedian coming up with all the material and getting some feedback from outside-eyes about what does and doesn't work, before only making changes that they believe will work, isn't really the same thing.

This is also all very different from just performing material written by other people.

But surely you can see some people employ other comics to do that in a professional capacity?

[Replies From View]

But surely you can see some people employ other comics to do that in a professional capacity?

It's not really a matter of what I "surely can see", as if I am actually missing something here, is it.

[Sebastian Cobb]

I dunno, are you?

[Replies From View]

I dunno, are you?

Try again.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Not risking it, you might invoice me.

[Brundle-Fly]

I lose respect for any stand-up that uses other writers.  Being funny involves having the wit and intelligence to come up with the material.  If you are using writers, you are an actor, not a comedian.  And if you are shit at it you shouldn't be earning loads of money for it so fuck off.

What if you're an excellent comedy writer who is shit at stand up and needs a mouthpiece? John Irwin for Paul Merton springs to mind. Tough titty?

[lankyguy95]

What if you're an excellent comedy writer who is shit at stand up and needs a mouthpiece? John Irwin for Paul Merton springs to mind. Tough titty?

John Irwin was a co-writer for sketches though and didn't write any of Merton's stand up act (as far as I know).

I say that being not quite as bothered about the use of writers as other people. I think writing the whole act is also different to the odd joke. I've heard loads of stand ups talk about another comedian giving them a joke for their act. I seem to recall Stewart Lee mentioning that Simon Munnery had written a couple of jokes on Comedy Vehicle. If it's the whole act or a sizeable proportion of it though I think Replies is right - you're an actor, not a stand up.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

How do we feel about old-school comics such as Bob Hope, who, as far as I'm aware, never wrote a joke in his life? Hope's delivery and timing were impeccable, so surely that must mean he was, technically, a good comedian.

I may be muddying the waters here, but isn't that broadly akin to singers such as Frank Sinatra and Elvis Presley being gifted interpreters of other people's material? They, like Hope, imprinted their own unique style and personality on everything they did.

Then again, I guess it's taken as read that the vast majority of old-school stand-ups didn't write their own material. We're not really talking about those guys, are we? Oh well.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Then again, I guess it's taken as read that the vast majority of old-school stand-ups didn't write their own material. We're not really talking about those guys, are we? Oh well.

"tell us a joke we know!"