Undone - New Sci-fi series by Bojack Horseman writer feat. Bob Odenkirk

[NoSleep]

...Starring Rosa Salazar from the Alita: Battle Angel film.

Is there a thread about this already? Starts on 13th September, end of this week, on Amazon (just found out about it by accident).

Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uWCNHQgfnc

What a pleasant surprise.

[NoSleep]

Bob-Waksberg said fans of BoJack Horseman – which follows the fortunes of an anthropomorphic horse in Hollywood – will find similarities in Undone.

Speaking at an event in Los Angeles, he told the PA news agency: "I'd say there are certain similarities, as far as the 'lostness' of the character, the melancholy, the prickliness, some substance abuse issues, mental health issues.

"But there are no talking animals in the show – that's the difference."

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/entertainment/film-tv/news/bojack-horseman-creator-discusses-his-latest-animated-series-undone-38475768.html

[NoSleep]

...although this is a drama, so maybe the thread needs to be moved elsewhere.

[Cardenio I]

Probably, yeah. Looks good though.

[olliebean]

...Starring Rosa Salazar from the Alita: Battle Angel film.

Is there a thread about this already? Starts on 13th September, end of this week, on Amazon (just found out about it by accident).

Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uWCNHQgfnc

What a pleasant surprise.

s/Starts/Whole series drops, fyi. Housemate just got a free 1-month Prime trial, and we were bemoaning the lack of anything good on Prime Video that we haven't already seen, so this is nicely timed for us.

[NoSleep]

According to wiki it's a comedy-drama so we're in the right folder.

[Piggyoioi]

Looks interesting, though I hate the rotoscope look without any kind of artistic stylization, just looks lazy.

[NoSleep]

I think the whole thing is live acted to video then turned into animation and sets added at that stage, so you've had that. It's probably cheap and avoids using the same CGI that we've seen in a heap of other stuff.

[Puce Moment]

If this simple rotoscope process gives us great low-budget TV then I'm all for it.

[Small Man Big Horse]

I've watched two episodes of this so far and am loving it, the first episode was strong but nothing that amazing, but the second is something else, just astonishingly beautiful to watch and I love the ideas it's playing with. Annoyingly I have work tomorrow so need to crash now, but I'd be amazed if I don't end up binge watching it over the weekend.

[Alberon]

I watched the first and, yeah it's fine, but I'm heading into the second and the animation is starting to be useful. I'm interested to see where it goes.

[Moribunderast]

5 episodes in and I think this is quite wonderful. The writing and performances are really great and it's quite unpredictable in terms of shit just taking odd visual and momentary turns. I love Bojack but I find this more impressive as an idea.

[Small Man Big Horse]

5 episodes in and I think this is quite wonderful. The writing and performances are really great and it's quite unpredictable in terms of shit just taking odd visual and momentary turns. I love Bojack but I find this more impressive as an idea.

I've watched the first five now as well and feel exactly the same way, it's easily my favourite new show of the year.

[Small Man Big Horse]

I've finished it now and absolutely adored it, but - Huge Spoilers for the final episode - I'm not happy with that very last image. I've read interviews where the creators go on about it being open to interpretation and their not wanting to suggest a definite answer, but in some ways I think it would have been braver if they had done, if they'd gone down the road of "Yes, sadly she was mentally unwell". I mean I love the fantasy idea, it's something which appeals enormously, but in this specific situation I think a more realistic take is the more powerful version. Which is why that's how I'm going to view it, and I really hope they don't decide to do a second season as there's just no need.

[Blue Jam]

The bloke from out of Clipping. is in it. I am a fan of Clipping. but I had absolutely no idea he was an actor until now. Duh.

Looks great and after watching Dream Corp LLC I'd be happy to see more rotoscoping. Might have to get round to that free trial of Prime...

[NoSleep]

That was really good and unlike SMBH I would love to see more of this because it was brilliant and there's plenty more to play with.

[NoSleep]

I've finished it now and absolutely adored it, but - Huge Spoilers for the final episode - I'm not happy with that very last image. I've read interviews where the creators go on about it being open to interpretation and their not wanting to suggest a definite answer, but in some ways I think it would have been braver if they had done, if they'd gone down the road of "Yes, sadly she was mentally unwell". I mean I love the fantasy idea, it's something which appeals enormously, but in this specific situation I think a more realistic take is the more powerful version. Which is why that's how I'm going to view it, and I really hope they don't decide to do a second season as there's just no need.

Spoiler continuation: I really feel that there is some unfinished business regarding the reveal of her father committing suicide (and taking somebody else's life along with his own). Something seems wrong about this, it doesn't resolve anything and seemed out of character with what we knew about him, whether its all in Alma's mind or otherwise. I have nothing but faith in Raphael Bob-Waksberg's ability to go deeper with this.

[Small Man Big Horse]

Spoiler continuation: I really feel that there is some unfinished business regarding the reveal of her father committing suicide (and taking somebody else's life along with his own). Something seems wrong about this, it doesn't resolve anything and seemed out of character with what we knew about him, whether its all in Alma's mind or otherwise. I have nothing but faith in Raphael Bob-Waksberg's ability to go deeper with this.

Well I guess it was that he was also suffering from schizophrenia, and after thinking he was about to lose anything had a sudden spiral. It did seem a bit abrupt, it's true, but then we don't even know it's definitely true as it could be just Alma's mind playing tricks on her.

[NoSleep]

All that may be true, or not. I need more.

[Small Man Big Horse]

All that may be true, or not. I need more.

I can understand that. And I did love it, and have a lot of faith in the creators, so if they could pull off another season which was equally as engaging then I would like it to see it.

[Blue Jam]

...so this is a rotoscoped, Philip K. Dick-inspired dark comedy from the creators of BoJack Horseman? Even without the intriguing cast list this sounds right up my street- hell, I liked A Scanner Darkly and this sounds better...

Clip here:

https://youtu.be/mmg_r8PKn-I

I like the children's painting style of the background, it's creepily incongruous and gives it an unnerving feel of a psychoanalyst going "...so, let's go back to your childhood".

Is Odenkirk channeling every TED speaker ever here? Given that the character is meant to be a time travel researcher that could really work. One comment under that video mentions J*rd*n P*t*rs*n but that seems a little harsh...

With the time travel stuff it sounds a bit Quantum Break too- for all its flaws I still really enjoyed that game and would see this as a good thing.

I'm not familiar with Salazar's previous work but Alita: Battle Angel also sounds right up my street so I think I'll check that out first. It looks a bit Jupiter Ascending but not so daft (and daft as it is I love that film anyway).

Very intrigued to check out Daveed Diggs' as an actor. I love Clipping. and just hearing that familiar voice in the trailer was a bit of a thrill.

Think I'm going to have to do the free trial of Amazon Prime now my free six months of Apple Music is about to expire, in the meantime I think Alita: Battle Angel may be tomorrow night's viewing. Ta for the recommendations, everyone!

[dirkgonnadirk]

i really enjoyed this and thought it was 100x better than the steaming turd that was russian doll. and i didn't have to listen to anyone say 'cock a roach'.

[Blue Jam]

Hahaha, I was going to give Russian Doll a go tonight before Bake-Off! I'll see if you were right... Will get round to Alita: Battle Angel after that, and then maybe Undone. Reading the bumped Philip K. Dick thread has piqued my interest too.

Apparently the J*rd*n P*t*rs*n thing is just a bit of an unfortunate vocal resemblance I had been blissfully unaware of until now. That figures-  the creators of BoJack Horseman strike me as a bit too woke for all that...

[Blue Jam]

Couldn't resist, got the Amazon Prime trial and watching now...

The younger sister's fiance has a definite whiff of a Trump Jr. Also the stuff about the protagonist's paternal grandmother having electroshock therapy- a bit of BoJack DNA right there.

Not seen Rosa Salazar in anything before but she's great. Loving this already.

[Moribunderast]

Good interview with Kate Purdy about the show on AV Club. Seems they do have it mapped out for more seasons, which will be interesting as I saw it as a one-off but also have total faith in the creative team and so adored this first season that I'm more than happy for them to give it a go.

I thought the last episode felt a little rushed and abrupt - though to be fair, at 20 minutes, every episode felt very quick - but I loved the show as a whole. Probably my favourite show of the year thus far, or at least up there with The Virtues and Chernobyl. I can only echo my earlier post re: the performances and the writing. Every character feels so authentic and lived-in, all the way from Rosa Salazar's portrayal of Alma down to smaller characters like her work colleague or the priest or the misbehaving little girl at pre-school. It's funny that an animated show about becoming untethered from reality and time would have some of the most real and relatable acting and writing in it.

I really hope this show gets the attention it deserves. I spruiked it to some work colleagues and all have loved it so that's promising. I thought maybe the rotoscope style would hold some people off but I think the tone and pure quality of the thing might shine through for most. 

[phantom_power]

Agree with some of the above, the first episode is intriguing but so-so and then the second episode is fucking astonishing. Can't wait to watch the rest

[Blue Jam]

Every character feels so authentic and lived-in, all the way from Rosa Salazar's portrayal of Alma down to smaller characters like her work colleague or the priest or the misbehaving little girl at pre-school.

This. Becca's rich-but-boring fiance appeared for all of five seconds in the first episode, and I still completely got why Alma didn't like him and why Becca didn't give a second thought to cheating on him with a random bartender. It's impressive how much detail and backstory has been packed into these 22-minute episodes. Such relatable characters too, especially the Mexican Catholic family arguing about weddings and producing grandchildren and attending church- I recognise a lot of that in my own family and the families of friends. All these mundane little things that blow up into massive conflicts, it's really great writing.

It struck me as being very BoJack in many ways, but also much more subtle with it, and that applies to both the humour and the way plot details and backstory were revealed. For example, Alma's grandmother being institutionalised reminded me of BoJack's own grandmother being lobotomised. Also, as the Horseman family seem to keep fucking up the next generation of Horsemans, Alma, and Jacob both seem to have neurotic, stubborn and self-destructive traits, possibly passed down to them through Jacob's mother, plus there's the worry that they may have inherited her schizophrenia hanging over them. Camila being overbearing and brandishing the tablets also reminded me of Beatrice Sugarman and her "pretty pills", and Alma being too bright for her job and underappreciated at it reminded me a little of Diane. It has the complexity of BoJack Horseman but it's more subtle and believable- I love both shows for their similarities and their differences.

I'd also love to see a series 2. I felt the abrupt ending didn't tie things up at all and actually opened up more possibilities. The whole thing of Alma wondering what her dad would have been like, then finding him to be nice and supportive and kind before finding out he wasn't being entirely honest about the "it wasn't an accident, I was killed" thing, and that not only did he kill himself, he also took an innocent student's life in a murder-suicide- that's a massive headfuck for her to deal with right there. Series 2 could have her confronting her dad and trying to get to the bottom of things- and with them as two unreliable, possibly schizophrenic narrators that could be wonderfully messed-up and fascinating stuff. She could also end up spiralling further, or being forced to confront the possibility that she could end up like her dad, or her grandmother, and probably should take her pills. There could also be a bit of a role-reversal- in series 1, Jacob was like the Jedi master teaching mind tricks to his young Padawan, in series 2 maybe Alma, who is "just" a daycare teacher, could end up using her insight and perceptiveness to teach the esteemed professor a thing or two. In any case I could happily watch an entire series of Salazar and Odenkirk having their little chats, cross-legged and floating a few centimetres above the ground- they've got good chemistry and again, it was a believable father-daughter relationship.

Alma could also travel back in time and perform an intervention, holding on to her dad's hand and crying to try and stop him leaving her and running off to the lab, or telling the student not to get in the car with him... with the power to "undo" things come great responsibility, some big decisions  and the potential to screw things up, with the resulting guilt. There's loads of places this could go...

I already can't wait to watch the entire thing again...

[Blue Jam]

Also if anyone's enjoying the rotoscope stylings I'd offer up the 2006 French film Renaissance as another recommendation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBf9buCjX3Q

It's monochrome and uses rotoscoping to a very different effect, and it's very stylish with a great soundtrack. I've only seen the French version with English subtitles so I'm not sure what the English dub is like, but Daniel Craig, Ian Holm and Jonathan Pryce are on it and it seems to be one of the better dubs out there.

[Zetetic]

I don't think that the very ending added anything at all. Before that, there's still a positive ambiguity, even if it's pushed you in a particular direction with the absence of a reveal. After that, you're stuck - either things resolve as Alma believes they will (which clinches things, pretty much) or they don't (which pushes you even harder in the other direction). (I can see ways to build a second series from that point... but all of them feel like dealing with a mistake.)

As a whole, I think it's very good. It doesn't put its foot in anything badly that it so easily could, the rotoscoping lets a lot of stuff work that might otherwise have seemed too silly or showy or hokey or something (and not just the fantastical stuff by any means) and the characters really are very ... solid.

Alma's father and her relationship with him, both in the writing and performance, feel as real as they need to. He doesn't come across as a one-dimensional idealisation, even at the very start, which is quite important.

[phantom_power]

Isn't it clearly not all in her head? How else would she know about that receptionist's sister, or all that extra detail about her dad dying. I suppose she could have intuited it from the screensaver and details in the boxes but this seems a bit of a stretch