Brexit Thread 8 - Who Will Survive And What Will Be Left Of Them?

[Replies From View]

Take it to HS Art, you LOLRANDOMS.

How is that even singular.

[NoSleep]

later(s) Johnny

[pancreas]

This is why he can't come into HS Art. He doesn't understand simple rule.

[NoSleep]

Thi i why he can't come into H Art. He doen't undertand imple rule.

[Captain Z]

Just get on with it.

[Ferris]

How is that even singular.

One is for continual in-jokes, contentious jabs, petty bickering, and requires knowledge of almost myriad-impenetrable context due to the thousands of previous pages of almost exactly the same content.

...and the other is HS Art!!

[Paulie Walnuts]

looks like it's happening lads

xx

[SpiderChrist]

looks like it's happening lads

xx

fuck are you talking about, you horrible cunt?

[bgmnts]

Gearing up for his first weekend away to kick homeless people to death.

[Paulie Walnuts]

"look at us, we are the sole occupants of the moral high ground"

[Paulie Walnuts]

https://news.sky.com/story/jean-claude-juncker-we-can-have-a-deal-and-brexit-will-happen-11814207

[ajsmith2]

Telegraph reporting Irish deputy PM says these new Backstop provisions 'don't stand up to scrutiny'. Meanwhile Juncker states oddly that he 'doesn't have an erotic relationship with the backstop'. Well no one thought you did until you put the thought in our heads. Seems more than a bit premature to start saying anything's a done deal just cos a few more jowls are flapping vaguely positive about a deal. Be very surprised if this thing isn't good for quite a few more twists and turns.

[Buelligan]

He means he isn't going to fuck it.  It's Luxembourger humour, they're very polite, very dry.

[Huxleys Babkins]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/20/fresh-brexit-talks-row-uk-eu-proposals-secret

Downing Street's secrecy over its "underwhelming" Brexit proposals has caused a fresh rupture in the negotiations in Brussels.

The row centres on a demand that the EU's negotiating team treat a long-awaited cache of documents outlining the UK's latest ideas as "Her Majesty's government property".

The European commission team was told by Whitehall that the three "confidential" papers it had sent on Thursday evening should not be distributed to Brexit delegates representing the EU's 27 other member states.

Sources in Brussels said that in response the point was being made forcefully to the British negotiating team that all proposals would need to be made available for the EU's capitals to analyse for talks to progress.

I'm presuming this is their 5D chess Cummings megabrain answer to the widely derided "send a proposal and then send another letter telling them to ignore it" plan.

Send a proposal and tell the EU they aren't allowed to look at it. Masters of negotiation, these cunts.

[Paul Calf]

That'll be the EU being secretive and undemocratic then.

[buttgammon]

Hang on: wasn't the excuse for all the secrecy based on not wanting to show their hand to the EU? When these proposals are literally being shown to the EU, what's the need to keep them secret then?

Until I see otherwise, I'm going to assume they've just proposed the exact same thing as before but with the backstop removed.

[Buelligan]

Just thought I'd mention, remember that story about Cummings/Johnson demanding that government departments centralise the collection and analysis of user data from gov.uk and do it fast?

And they're spending £100million on adverts urging people to visit that web address?

Remember Cambridge Analytica?

Yep.  All above board, of course.

It could be tested.  Visit the site a few times, concentrate exclusively on one issue, say, medicines or immigration, only that.  Then see what pops up come the next election.

[Replies From View]

Does the site have a section on legalising pig-head fucking?  Would be funny to see them suddenly treating that as a worthy issue come sunshine days.

[Dr Rock]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e67RPEcb_EY

An account of Boris's EU meeting today. Guess how he did.

[Johnny Yesno]

5D chess Cummings megabrain

I wish people wouldn't keep peddling this idea. He's said on his own blog that if you think he's smart then you don't know any smart people. The following Wired article reckons he treats anything he's involved in like a tech start-up:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/dominic-cummings-who-brexit-blog

It seems about right, although I'd add that he sees himself as a disruptor and all that that entails. Breaking stuff to see what falls out. It's an adaptive approach to getting what you want rather than a grand plan and it has to be understood in that light to be defended against. Thankfully, I think the Corbyn team do understand this.

[Paul Calf]

I don't think he's 'smart'. If he was smart, he'd follow the consequences of what he's doing to their logical conclusion and realise that no-one is going to win. He's cunning and ambitious and greedy and stupid. That's easily enough to get him into a position of enormous power but be incapable of exercising it judiciously.

If you could go back in time and stop Dominic Cummings...

[jamiefairlie]

I'd add that he sees himself as a disruptor and all that that entails. Breaking stuff to see what falls out.

That's it exactly and that's why the universal response of 'no, stop, you're breaking all our conventions and processes and even laws' has no impact, it's just validation that he's doing it right and encourages him to become ever more daring.

[Johnny Yesno]

If you could go back in time and stop Dominic Cummings...

Funnily enough, he's really against that kind of view of history: that there was only one possible chain of causality that would get us to where we are now. Well, it all started when Archduke Franz Ferdinand was assassinated...

[olliebean]

Hang on: wasn't the excuse for all the secrecy based on not wanting to show their hand to the EU? When these proposals are literally being shown to the EU, what's the need to keep them secret then?

Until I see otherwise, I'm going to assume they've just proposed the exact same thing as before but with the backstop removed.

Pretty much:

Meanwhile, Sky News reports that a draft legal text drawn up by the government to present to the EU is simply the existing backstop protocol in the treaty, with the relevant articles on the backstop crossed out.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/irish-backstop-brexit-no-deal-draft-barnier-johnson-varadkar-a9089001.html

[Zetetic]

Peston reporting a draft Labour Brexit statement to put to the NEC.

- 3 months of negotiation following election
- Referendum 3 months later.
- Labour position in referendum to be determined by a special one-day conference.

Target deal:
- Customs Union.
- Close relationship with single market.
- Guarantees of workers' rights and environmental protections (i.e. UK becomes a 'rule-taker' on these)
- membership of key bodies re climate change, counter-terrorism and medicines (in practice, UK becomes a subordinate in these areas as well?)

Freedom of movement, labour etc. not mentioned.

FT-friendly, I guess.

Source.

[greencalx]

Ah Right now we can come back to your earlier post which ended up in the Watson thread. Here would be the place to continue that. I appreciate the time you took to set out your position by the way.

How much more specific would you like the position to be? You give the impression of rejecting anything that isn't "remain" on the basis of it not being "remain", and declaring everything that sits in the vast space between remain and a no-Deal WTO Brexit position as "not a compromise". I don't find this helps move things forward.

Being more charitable (the sun is shining) I suspect you're wanting a definitive statement on FoM. My reading if the situation is that what's set out above is impossible without FoM and will therefore amount to an EEA type position. To which you will then say "why bother with that when we can have all the same things + a seat at the table by staying in?" To which I will say "that ship sailed in June 2016".  So let's take that all as read and see where we can get from there.

[Lordofthefiles]

Peston reporting a draft Labour Brexit statement to put to the NEC.

- 3 months of negotiation following election
- Referendum 3 months later.
- Labour position in referendum to be determined by a special one-day conference.

Target deal:
- Customs Union.
- Close relationship with single market.
- Guarantees of workers' rights and environmental protections (i.e. UK becomes a 'rule-taker' on these)
- membership of key bodies re climate change, counter-terrorism and medicines (in practice, UK becomes a subordinate in these areas as well?)

Freedom of movement, labour etc. not mentioned.

FT-friendly, I guess.

Source.

This is no time for sensible thinking and ideas.

[Johnny Yesno]

To which you will then say "why bother with that when we can have all the same things + a seat at the table by staying in?" To which I will say "that ship sailed in June 2016".

I'd say 'I don't know. Ask a brexiter.' Labour are trying to offer them as close to what they want as is possible without wrecking the economy. They have to understand that what they want will leave us worse off, but at least this way they can choose an option that will leave us a bit worse off rather than a lot worse off.

[Zetetic]

.
Being more charitable (the sun is shining) I suspect you're wanting a definitive statement on FoM. My reading if the situation is that what's set out above is impossible without FoM and will therefore amount to an EEA type position.

That's not a million miles away from my position and understanding, yes.

To which you will then say "why bother with that when we can have all the same things + a seat at the table by staying in?"

Not quite. I might say something like "Oh, so we're planning to piss through both letterboxes and tell people that's a compromise in good faith."

It's a pragmatic way forward, but we (here at least) shouldn't pretend it's a real alternative to Remaining, let alone a leftist alternative.

[Zetetic]

rejecting anything that isn't "remain" on the basis of it not being "remain"

Not at all this, to be clear - since "remain" will remain remain for the referendum.

(Indeed, as either Remainer or Leaver, why would I want the deal to compete with remaining on the same basis?)