Should Vanessa George be released?

[Fambo Number Mive]

Personally I don't like the idea of child abusers going back into society at all, I think we and they would be much happier if they had to live in special closed towns like in Florida, where they can't come into contact with any more children.

However, if George (whose crimes were vile even by nonce standards) does have to be released, I do think it should be conditional on her having to name all the young children she abused, so they can be given proper support. I suppose the only issue is you don't know if she is telling the truth.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-49739731

[Endicott]

Where do you stand on the principle of rehabilitation of offenders?

[Fambo Number Mive]

I don't believe that the risk of someone who commits such a heinous crime as abusing a child is worth it. How do you tell if someone is rehabilitated for such a crime?

These "closed towns" would basically be an secure camp where each offender gets their own dwelling and is given work to do to support the running of the prison. It's not like they are banged up 23 hours a day, but they can't get access to children and don't have to suffer any temptation.

Does prison work for rehabilitation currently? The way to reduce lesser crimes is to change society and give people a new start, but can you ever stop someone wanting to abuse children?

[Puce Moment]

If she has served her time and they believe she should be released, then that is what should happen. If you want to punish her for the sake of it then she should stay inside.

For me personally, her decision not to state the names of the abused (with a statement on the specific type of abuse) means I would find it hard to see how she could be seen as rehabilitated. Those very young children need specific forms of therapy and counselling based on the abuse they received.

[idunnosomename]

CUT THEIR GOOLIES OFF!!!

[Fambo Number Mive]

How reliable is an over-crowded and underfunded prison service in deciding who is fit to be released?

[popcorn]

If someone is judged to be a danger to society then they should not be released. It all rests on that judgement. I suspect it is not a judgement Fambo Number Mive is in a position to make about Vanessa George.

[Dex Sawash]

Nonceburg
Paedoton
Leeds

[holyzombiejesus]

If she has served her time and they believe she should be released, then that is what should happen.

For me personally, her decision not to state the names of the abused (with a statement on the specific type of abuse) means I would find it hard to see how she could be seen as rehabilitated.

This is what I thought too.

Seem to remember she did it because she fell under the spell of a charming paedophile who coerced her in to abusing children in return for a date. What a rotten bucket of cunts.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

HS Art thread

[Buelligan]

How reliable is an over-crowded and underfunded prison service in deciding who is fit to be released?

I think this is the problem.  IMO prison is often used as an oubliette where "bad" people can be contained and forgotten about until such time as the state can find a reason not to keep paying for them, whilst looking as if it's doing something to keep people safe.  Evidence on the efficacy of prison as a rehabilitation tool can surely be found in recidivism rates (at least to a degree because it relies on the premise that all crimes are solved).  On a quick glance and with no knowledge at all that rate appears to lie somewhere in the range of 7 to 22% for sexual offences. 

[Fambo Number Mive]

If someone is judged to be a danger to society then they should not be released. It all rests on that judgement. I suspect it is not a judgement Fambo Number Mive is in a position to make about Vanessa George.

I'm not saying that I am in a position to judge if she is a danger to society, my point is, given the gravity of her crimes, should society take the risk of allowing her to have access to general society.

Do we trust the current justice system to make this decision, given how many people are in prison for lesser crimes who would be better dealt with in other ways (e.g. drug addicts need treatment, not prison, for possession or drugs)?

[Twed]

In July, the Parole Board said George would never be allowed to work with children

Whoa, bit excessive

[Lordofthefiles]

Fuck her, she should burn.
If the authorities think she's fit to be released, having shown no contrition for, or even admission of her crimes, then hopefully some right-thinking member of society will kill the fucking cunt within seconds of her setting foot out of nick.

[Dr Rock]

I don't believe that the risk of someone who commits such a heinous crime as abusing a child is worth it. How do you tell if someone is rehabilitated for such a crime?

These "closed towns" would basically be an secure camp where each offender gets their own dwelling and is given work to do to support the running of the prison. It's not like they are banged up 23 hours a day, but they can't get access to children and don't have to suffer any temptation.

Does prison work for rehabilitation currently? The way to reduce lesser crimes is to change society and give people a new start, but can you ever stop someone wanting to abuse children?

What if they only nonced a couple of children, but also have a family? Most child abuse is by a family member, and if the child knew that if they reported it their dad - or brother, mum etc -  would live the rest of their life in such a secure camp, would they want that?

edit - I'm sure some would btw.

[touchingcloth]

You can't say Florida is a place exclusively populated by sex offenders. It only seems that way.

[honeychile]

I remember there was that clip of her during her police interviews when it went something like:

Police: Can you just name the names of the children?

VG: [silence]

Police: We already have all the evidence, you're going to prison for a long time. We just want the names of the children abused.

VG: [silence]

Police: If it was your kids, you'd want to know wouldn't you?

VG: No comment.

If i had been those police, i think that would have been the moment i went on trial for murder and she went directly to grave.

This being said, i obviously don't know the circumstances of her potential release, but if she's still not naming the names then i find my reactionary instincts winning out.

[Cardenio I]

Does prison work for rehabilitation currently? The way to reduce lesser crimes is to change society and give people a new start, but can you ever stop someone wanting to abuse children?

Why should you not be able to? (in the abstract that is, not in this case)

[Fambo Number Mive]

What if they only nonced a couple of children, but also have a family? Most child abuse is by a family member, and if the child knew that if they reported it their dad - or bother, mum etc -  would live the rest of their life in such a secure camp, would they want that?

That is a good question.

I know the secure camp system does have flaws but so does the current system. It does seem a bit bizarre that George is out there amongst the public after what she did, although I know she has significant restrictions.

[Buelligan]

Why should you not be able to? (in the abstract that is, not in this case)

If we're asking this, surely, we need to also ask how we do?

[Cardenio I]

I suppose you'd start my getting a grasp on why someone would do such a thing in the first place. I don't particularly think its attributable to sexual desire (or at least, not any more than rape or sexual assault - i.e. this is not the outcome of some kink)

[José]

i always confuse vanessa george with vanessa feltz on account of the fact they're completely identical.

[Elderly Sumo Prophecy]

Would Nonce Town need it's own separate services like a nonce supermarket, nonce dentist and so on, or are they free to go out into the wider world for things like that?
How would you stop them escaping, walls and guards, or maybe put it on an island?

[Shit Good Nose]

A mate of mine's previous job was helping rehabilitate and reintroduce ex-offenders back to society (due to department and budgetary restructures, he now helps with with addicts, a job he absolutely hates because it's so rare they have a "success" story, but that's by the by), and he said the only two "clients" he ever felt REALLY uncomfortable around and didn't like to be alone in the same room with were a Russian guy who was co-leader of a people trafficking crew (mainly forcing Eastern European women into prostitution over here, but also a bit of slave labour), and a bloke who had sexually abused a ridiculous number of young children.

That doesn't answer the question, I just thought it was an interesting relating point.

I guess (without knowing anything about the mind science behind it) a nonce should be as rehabilitable as any criminal, but whereas an ex-burglar thinking about burglary but never acting on it is "okay", a nonce is surely always a nonce and it becomes more said nonce not enacting on their desires to re-nonce.  Which isn't okay.

Tricky one all around.

[idunnosomename]

the factor here is that she never showed any abusive tendencies before she met this bloke on facebook.

you would think the fact that she refuses to give any information about the children abused would be a factor that works against her being granted parole, though. but then it is an indeterminate sentence with a minimum of seven years so would seem she was always going to get out eventually

she can't own a device that can access the internet. which is surely a fate worse than death.

[massive bereavement]

She wasn't given a life sentence so therefore she should be released. Maybe it would have made more sense to title the thread "Should Vanessa George be released YET?"

It is a unique case as far as I'm aware. What is so shocking is the environment in which she committed the crimes. If she'd been working as a nanny in people's homes I'm not so sure that she would have gained quite so much notoriety, it struck a chord with a lot of people because most parents today place their children in pre-schools.
It's as if she's taken part in torture and murder. We have to make the distinction, otherwise what kind of message does that send out? You might as well push your perversions to the extreme if the law is going to bang somebody up for life for knocking one out over an old VHS compilation of "We are the champions" pool jumping sequences.
This case is obviously very serious, but there has to be perspective.

[Emotional Support Peacock]

I guess (without knowing anything about the mind science behind it) a nonce should be as rehabilitable as any criminal, but whereas an ex-burglar thinking about burglary but never acting on it is "okay", a nonce is surely always a nonce and it becomes more said nonce not enacting on their desires to re-nonce.  Which isn't okay.

Tricky one all around.

Are you saying people should be punished for thoughts they have no intention of acting upon?

I'm sure we've all wished a violent death on someone in a particular moment...

[bgmnts]

As long as she's not released directly into a creche it's not too bad.

[imitationleather]

Are you saying people should be punished for thoughts they have no intention of acting upon?

I'm sure we've all wished a violent death on someone in a particular moment...

I often find myself doing that about this poster: https://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=6

[imitationleather]

I often find myself doing that about this poster: https://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=6

Oh, why's that then?