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CaB's Favourite Films of the 21st Century - Voting

Started by greenman, September 22, 2019, 02:25:35 PM

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Sin Agog

Quote from: greenman on September 23, 2019, 12:20:06 PM
I think the divide in Fassbinder's day was much clearer though, in the time of stuff like The Dekalog there was a much more obvious difference between normal TV and content that was more "cinematic". These days though I don't see any kind of clear line that we could use to say whats included and whats not?

I mean the obvious answer I spose is if someone wants to do a vote on best TV shows of the millennium in the Picture Box forum?

The divide between The Return and even the most prestigiousousos of current prestige TV is still pretty fucking vast.  Plus, it did actually get a cinema release, didn't it?

Bad Ambassador

A lot of European countries don't look on on television so much. Herzog's made a bunch of things for television, and no one thinks they're movies.

This is one of the better pieces of writing about the whole affair (imo): http://www.reverseshot.org/features/2417/twin_peaks_one

I just think that the distinction has eroded quite significantly in recent years, and that my primary one was always that television was not an auteurist medium, and that you knew something was television because of the dizzying array of writers and directors who could claim credit on different episodes. But now we have stuff being produced that is one cohesive vision in longform, like Berlin Alexanderplatz was, and then if you still think there's a distinction then you're clinging rather tightly to where the production money comes from in order to make that distinction.

Bad Ambassador

I know something is television when it's made for and broadcast on fucking television, regardless of how ART it is. If people continue to sneer at the likes of The Good Place, Westworld, Chernobyl or Inside No 9, insisting they are less than another series because that has an auteur rather than a showrunner, then I must ask them to pop themselves under a train and take Cahiers du Cinema with them.

That's an archaic distinction, most people watch films for the first time on streaming services now anyway, so it means nothing. And I don't care if you want to put The Good Place on your list or whatever, I don't have a chip on my shoulder that stems from imagining that other people look down on the things I like

Bad Ambassador

Quote from: Monsieur Verdoux on September 23, 2019, 12:54:19 PM
That's an archaic distinction, most people watch films for the first time on streaming services now anyway, so it means nothing.

Does that mean that if I watched Raiders of the Lost Ark for the first time rented from Blockbuster it's a DTV movie? Or if I saw it on ITV it was a TV movie?

Anyway TP:TR wasn't released on streaming, it was broadcast, so that has nothing to do with it.

Quote from: Bad Ambassador on September 23, 2019, 12:56:36 PM
Does that mean that if I watched Raiders of the Lost Ark for the first time rented from Blockbuster it's a DTV movie? Or if I saw it on ITV it was a TV movie?

Here's the point, here's what I'm getting at: I don't care.

And I don't know why you do so much.

Bad Ambassador

Does the original series count as a movie? Lynch and Frost had pretty much total control over the first season, didn't they?

Quote from: Monsieur Verdoux on September 23, 2019, 12:57:38 PM
Here's the point, here's what I'm getting at: I don't care.

And I don't know why you do so much.

You can't perpetuate the argument and then complain others are doing exactly that.

Well there were different directors and writers on each episode, so they didn't have total control. I don't really care if it 'counts' as a movie or not, I don't see it as a quality distinction in the way that seems to be being implied here

checkoutgirl

Quote from: greenman on September 22, 2019, 02:25:35 PM
Following up from that Guardian lost thread there seemed to be some interest in coming up with a similar(but naturally far superior) CaB list sometime before the end of the year based on peoples favourite lists. In terms of how to calculate positions opinion seemed divided between just offering top 10-20's for one point each and longer progressive rankings so I felt a decent middle ground would be a top 30 with the top 10 having 3 points, 11-20 having 2 points and 21-30 1 point.

Voting List - Your Name

1-10 - 3 points

10 films listed here

11-20 - 2 points

10 films listed here

21-30 - 1 point

10 films listed here

Use the red font for your final lists to avoid any confusion.

I'd guess being fairly liberal in terms of release dates would be best, so films that were say doing the festival circuit in late 1999 but didn't get a proper release until 2000 would be fine to include.

No need to be in too much of a rush to put up a final list either as I was thinking I'd leave it at least until the end of October before closing voting so discussion here before then would be fine. Also would the list is complete I'm wondering if people would like to adapt making a threat with write-ups for each film? I could give an un ordered list of the top 50 or 100(whichever we want) and people could pick out a few films each to do short write-ups on?

Can't we just put Under The Skin 30 times in a row and be fucking done with it?

greenman

Quote from: Monsieur Verdoux on September 23, 2019, 12:54:19 PM
That's an archaic distinction, most people watch films for the first time on streaming services now anyway, so it means nothing.

I would think most would agree that made for TV films would be fine to include and there does seem to be still a similar divide even on streaming services between series and films.

I mean yes I can see your point that Lynch is someone best known for the cinematic medium but there doesn't really seem to be agreement here that we should make an exception and I don't see any clear standard we could enforce.

Bad Ambassador

Quote from: Monsieur Verdoux on September 23, 2019, 01:01:20 PM
Well there were different directors and writers on each episode, so they didn't have total control. I don't really care if it 'counts' as a movie or not, I don't see it as a quality distinction in the way that seems to be being implied here

It makes that you don't know how television works.

Quote from: Bad Ambassador on September 23, 2019, 12:59:02 PM
You can't perpetuate the argument and then complain others are doing exactly that.

The argument is exactly that I don't care whether Twin Peaks 'counts' as film or not, and you do. I don't think in these categories, I have said that from the start

Quote from: Bad Ambassador on September 23, 2019, 01:03:35 PM
It makes that you don't know how television works.

What does that even mean

checkoutgirl

Quote from: chveik on September 23, 2019, 01:13:26 AM
Voting List - chveik

1-10 - 3 points

Code inconnu
Hard to Be A God
The Assassin
The Duke of Burgundy
Your Name.
Curse of the Golden Flower
Tropical Malady
Adieu
Melancholia
Kairo

11-20 - 2 points

Dogtooth
The Act of Killing
Zodiac
Embrace of the Serpent
Mary & Max
Werckmeister Harmonies
The Last Time I Saw Macao
On Body and Soul
Distance
Children of Men

21-30 - 1 point

The Master
Somewhere
Take Shelter
Notre musique
Love Exposure
Exiled
A Field in England
Yourself and Yours
La vie au ranch
Paprika

No Under The Skin? Get your head out of your arse mate. Best film of any century let alone this one.

Bad Ambassador

Quote from: Monsieur Verdoux on September 23, 2019, 01:03:57 PM
The argument is exactly that I don't care whether Twin Peaks 'counts' as film or not, and you do. I don't think in these categories, I have said that from the start

What does that even mean

"I makes sense that you don't..." was what I meant to type.

You care enough about it being a film, and arguing this, to place it as the best film of the last 20 years. Are you trying to move the goalposts now? "Actually, I don't really care about this argument I've been having. I'm actually above it all, don't you know?"

It's the best piece of longform audiovisual art in the last 20 years. You are the 'film' or 'tv' person. I don't think in these categories.

Glebe

Quote from: checkoutgirl on September 23, 2019, 01:05:28 PMNo Under The Skin? Get your head out of your arse mate. Best film of any century let alone this one.

I'd go along with that!

checkoutgirl

Quote from: maett on September 23, 2019, 02:23:09 AM
Voting List - Maett (according to my IMDb ratings)

1-10 - 3 points

The Grand Budapest Hotel
Battle Royale
The Descent
Your Name
Django Unchained
Citizen Dog
No Country for Old Men
The Darjeeling Limited
In Bruges
Mother (the Joon Jo Bong one)





11-20 - 2 points

The Nice Guys
Get Out
The Lobster
The Handmaiden
Inside Out
The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo
Sorry to Bother You
Anonymous
Take Care of My Cat
Mississippi Grind



21-30 - 1 point

The Borderlands
Philomena
Four Lions
Safety Not Guaranteed
Interstellar
Hunt for the Wilderpeople
Avengers: Infinity War
Mad Max: Fury Road
Okja
Thirst (2009)

No Under The Skin? I'm sweating my arsehole off here.


Bad Ambassador

Quote from: Monsieur Verdoux on September 23, 2019, 01:09:33 PM
It's the best piece of longform audiovisual art in the last 20 years. You are the 'film' or 'tv' person. I don't think in these categories.

Well, aren't you the magical one?

Why don't you put together your own list on a different forum, since you find the concept of categorisation such a burden to your artistic sunlight soul?

I'm thinking of mailing your posts to Pseud's Corner, BTW.


Bad Ambassador


Bad Ambassador

Quote from: Monsieur Verdoux on September 23, 2019, 01:17:44 PM
I have no idea why you're so bothered about this

Because tedious, snobbish pseuds who sneer at subjects they know fuck all about annoy me.

I know that television shows have showrunners who come up with the overarching design of the show if that's what you're getting at. I just don't regard it as 'total control' unless the same one or two people write every word and direct (almost) every frame. Everybody here knows how television works, I don't know what kind of point you think you're scoring here. I don't know why you're in such a huff about this. You're acting as if I'm implicitly criticising your taste, which I am not

EOLAN

Right here I go. I don't really like modern films but whatever I guess. Should probably have a lot more documentaries and have a couple TV/Series/Film discussions in there and sure why not?

1-10: 3 Points
Death of Stalin
In The Loop
Mullholland Drive
Twin Peaks (The Return)
OJ Made in America
Grizzly Man
Moonlight
Popstar (Never Stop Never Stopping)
Anvil: The Story of Anvil
Downfall (der Untergang)

11-20: 2 points
Zodiac
Wet Hot American Summer
Bridesmaids
The Counterfeiters
King of Kong
Four Lions
Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy
Midnight in Paris
Sunshine Cleaning
Fyre

21-30: 1 Point
Get me Roger Stone
Frost/Nixon
Zombieland
The Artist
Brexit: The Uncivil War
Between Two Ferns: The Movie
Fast & Furious Presents: Hobbs & Shaw
3 Billboards outside of Ebbing Missouri
Nebraska
Look Who's Back




Bad Ambassador

Then please explain, in simplest terms, why TP:TR is a film and not a television series.

I don't think in those categories, I already told you. It is simply my personal opinion that it possesses enough merit as a longform audiovisual work to be included

Bad Ambassador

Quote from: Monsieur Verdoux on September 23, 2019, 01:29:50 PM
I don't think in those categories, I already told you. I simply think it possesses enough merit as a longform audiovisual work to be included

I don't understand how you can "not think in terms of those categories", and then vote in a poll defined by the same categories. It looks like you're trying to have your cake and eat it.

I genuinely don't know what you're getting at there. I have explained it to you very simply a number of times and I still fail to see what your problem is.

Sin Agog

Quote from: Bad Ambassador on September 23, 2019, 01:26:45 PM
Then please explain, in simplest terms, why TP:TR is a film and not a television series.

That's like telling a colourblind person to describe the differences between maroon and pink.  It's your remit, not his.

As a highly successful producer of filmic, televisual, musical, literary and late-night public access vaporwave entertainment myself, all this categorisation malarkey exists more in the minds of critics and the audience than the people making it.  You just get a germ of an idea and follow it through, and then all these people muscle in on it, apply all these ethereal concepts to this thing you thought up.  Iunno, maybe there are brains which can't truck there not being a scaffold around things, and other (way sexier) brains that dig the chaos.