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The Great Pulp Debate

Started by 23 Daves, March 25, 2005, 10:00:10 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

What's your favourite Pulp album?

It
0 (0%)
Freaks
0 (0%)
Seperations
4 (3.3%)
His N Hers
33 (27.5%)
Different Class
49 (40.8%)
This Is Hardcore
15 (12.5%)
We Love Life
19 (15.8%)

Total Members Voted: 120

Voting closed: March 25, 2005, 10:00:10 PM

23 Daves

Carried over from some slightly irrelevant spiel I was waffling on about on a Nathan Barley thread...

In short, this is pretty much a poll to ask everyone what their favourite Pulp album is or even, if reponses are low or people are ignorant, just to have a general discussion about the band and their output over the years.

Essentially, they live on in the British Public's minds as being a pervy Britpop band with an unconventional lead singer, but scratch the surface and there's a hell of a lot more going on, and a lot of different styles coming out of the band over the years.  

Their debut album "It" in 1983 was a pretty, slightly twee effort with lots of big vocals and acoustic guitars.  There were obvious eighties production values going on in a low-budget way in the background, and the whole project had an incredibly Scott Walker-ish feel.  Nobody purchased it at the time, but in fairness it's no better or worse than some of Felt's early material, for example, and only seems to be derided still because Jarvis feels ashamed of it these days, as I would guess most people do about their teenage work.

"Freaks" is another matter.  Rush-recorded, self-consciously oddball and 'sinister', it sounds incredibly muffled and messy.  Truly my least favourite album, and one that should be buried.

Then there's "Seperations", another sadly ignored but frequently fantastic album.  80s electronic noises combine with maudlin, Tindersticks-esque vocals, Pet Shop Boys and Erasure-ish pop pretentions,  and cheap keyboards.  It sounds like the hangover after a party or a particularly vile relationship break-up.  

Ignoring the "not really a proper album" Pulpintro, the next release was "His N Hers", an album which disappointed me hugely at the time because it sounded nothing like the band I'd now seen live a few times.  It was trebly, slightly flat and slightly lifeless sounding apart from the singles, though listening back on it now I can still hear moments that are perfectly good.  That said, the buzzing guitars and howling vocals do periodically have the whiff of Suede about them, and this is the only time in their career that I'd ever suspect them of bowing to the whims of predominant fashion.

"Different Class is, of course, one of the finest pop albums ever released.  I don't even feel the need to discuss it in any greater depth - it makes all the right moves in all the right places.  

Then comes "This Is Hardcore", an album most Pulp fans would like to have you believe is the best, and certainly has some strong moments - but then there's woeful self-pitying drivel on there and over-long, self-conscious waffle like "Seductive Barry".  it's a particularly flawed piece of work which, with a different selection of tracks and less posturing on behalf of the band ("we dumped all the tracks that sounded like singles") could easily have been saved.  I like it and would feel lost without it in my collection, but I fail to see how it's deserving of its lofty status.

Not so "We Love Life" which, as you might have guessed, is my favourite album.  On the "Nathan Barley" thread, I wrote this:

QuoteLyrically the album is also leaps ahead of the black-and-white prole posturing of "Mis-Shapes" or "Common People", and musically rich in detail. A lot of Pulp's previous albums had been rather trebly and transistor radio POP in their production (though no less great for that) whereas "We Love Life" has a rich, mature sound. It's their best album in my opinion (and my wife's opinion, actually), but it sold dick all, and Pulp fans tend to dismiss it. And just as Nathan nay-sayers point to character inconsistencies and rushed edits to doom the project, Pulp fans point to the emotional bloodletting of "Roadkill" and the unnecessarily rambling "Weeds II" as proof that the album is crap, ignoring the fact that the """dark""" "This Is Hardcore" had weak points, rambled like hell and was often incredibly self indulgent. Rather like "jam", then.

To add to that, I'd say that "Wickerman" remains one of the finest things they've ever committed to CD - a fantastic soundscape journey through the heart of the underground of Sheffield and Jarvis' relationships, questioning his willingness to "go all the way" ("This is as far as we got last time/ but if we wait for just a little while/ we will surface surrounded by grass and trees/and flyovers that take the cars to cities").  Then there's "Sunrise", which after the slightly maudlin approach on "This Is Hardcore" is one of the most life-affirming songs ever written.  Strangely, though, the album does appear to have the same pastoral and personal subject matters that were in evidence on the first work, "It", only this time Scott Walker actually is the producer, so the whole thing can be done properly.

Any more thoughts?

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

I'll have to think about this before saying what my favourite album is, but This is Hardcore will always have a special place in my heart because of the fact that I got it for my 15th birthday, which was an ace one. We went paintballing.
Come to think of it, its not really possible to discuss this kind of thing completely objectively is it? No matter what you think about the structure of the music and the lyrics, we all make connections to music based on how we feel when we hear it first and blah blah blah.

imitationleather

I'm not sure either, but I fucking love My Lighthouse.

mayer

This Is Hardcore for me, sorry. I'm not a massive Pulp fan, and it's the only LP of theirs I really really like out of the three (DC, HnH) that I've heard.

imitationleather

This is Hardcore certainly has the best artwork. It's tricky really, I love some of the songs on that album but some of it is a real trudge to get through.

I think Pulp are one of those bands that I just can't pick a best album from. Since I were a wee 8 year old I've been listening to them, they've shaped the rather awkward person you see before you today. Blame Jarvis Cocker, not my parents!

Ansaphone is a superb B-side though. Especially from a band that don't really seem to "do" B-sides.

Different Class for me, perfect pop!

dan dirty ape

Different Class for me too, I reckon. I've never got on with pop stars making 'fame is hell' records, even ones as lyrically adept as Jarvis Cocker.

phes

What about Intro?

It's fucking ace...... or is it a compilation?

Edit - Oh, I see. Why is it being ignored? Surely it merits some attention.

TotalNightmare

Different Class for me too.

Its not that i dont like or get their previous work, but that album defined a year in my life and each track reminds me of a time and a place that i fondly remember. Also, the songs work for me in a way the other albums didn't, it gels, flows has a sense of unity and it just marks out a part of my existance that i appreciate it reminding me of.

Yes.

nuttyxander

Seperations is easily my favourite album, I got it on tape from a bargin bin just a few weeks before Different Class came out and it took a long time for Seperations to leave my tape deck.

However, my favourite Pulp recording is The Sisters EP, without a doubt.

I'm definitely a "We Love Life" man- it's a wonderful, melodic, rich album. Was never so keen on "Different Class", at the time Pulp seemed to me (an 11 year old Oasis fan, have mercy) to be Brit-pop without balls. "This Is Hardcore" is an okay album, it has some good moments but it does get dirgy at times.

I remember hearing "Freaks" round a mate's house once, that was a very good album, and having only heard "Different Class" at that point, was something of a revelation. Has anyone heard the song "The Tunnel"? I think it's a B side or somesuch. As I remember it consisted of a strange, Sister Ray-esque improvised-noise backing, with Jarvis wailing and screaming over the top. I would love to hear that again.

Cambrian Times

Was anyone here apart from me a member of the fan club?

Oh and Joe, "Tunnel" is on the Fire label compilation "Masters of the Universe". But this is the cut up version, not the original b-side version, but I don't know what version you've heard.

Anyway to whoever it was who said Pulp didn't do b-sides, two words: Street Lites.

imitationleather

When I went to see Jarvis Cocker at the RFH they were flogging a CD called Pulp on Fire. What was that? I've never seen it since.

What I meant by them not doing B-sides is that from the Pulp singles I've got they're nearly all remixes and the like. Aye, when they're there they are superb but they're few and far between. Is it just that they put on songs that they leave off the albums instead of specially recording them?

Cambrian Times

Quote from: "imitationleather"When I went to see Jarvis Cocker at the RFH they were flogging a CD called Pulp on Fire

Pulp left Fire Records rather acrimoniously. Angered by this Clive Solomon who owns Fire, took some sort of legal hold on the Fire recordings until the year 8888 ( ! ), which gives him the right to publish a compilation every few years.

TraceyQ

As "Intro" wasnt included, I went for His and Hers. It was the perfect soundtrack to  the Summer I turned 18.  I was bought tickets to see them for a birthday present and it was the first time I'd ever completely loved a band so much that I went out and bought all of their albums in one go.

23 Daves

Quote from: "phes"What about Intro?

It's fucking ace...... or is it a compilation?

Edit - Oh, I see. Why is it being ignored? Surely it merits some attention.

It is a compilation of early nineties A and B sides, and not really a 'proper' piece of studio work (though people often think of it as such).  I didn't include it for the same reason that I didn't include numerous Fire compilations or the "Singles" CD - I wanted to just stick to the official "proper" albums.  A bit precious of me, I'll admit, but the trouble is there have been so many Pulp compilations over the years that I wouldn't have known where to stop the poll otherwise.

Phil_A

Quote from: "Cambrian Times"
Quote from: "imitationleather"When I went to see Jarvis Cocker at the RFH they were flogging a CD called Pulp on Fire

Pulp left Fire Records rather acrimoniously. Angered by this Clive Solomon who owns Fire, took some sort of legal hold on the Fire recordings until the year 8888 ( ! ), which gives him the right to publish a compilation every few years.

Yep, there are quite a few near-identical Fire compilations, usually containing the same songs in a slightly different order. I've got two of them myself.

Jarvis was asked to contribute some sleevenotes to one of them, but what he wrote was so scathing of the band's mismanagement when they were on Fire that they opted to not use it.

The label's control over this material(and Jarvis's disinterest) presumably means there'll never be a properly remastered Freaks, which is a shame because there genuinely are some good songs on there, but the rotten production scuppers them. I still really like "They Suffocate At Night", "Being Followed Home" and the hilarious "Fairground".

"Tunnel" was actually the title track of an early EP. You can see what they were trying to do with it, but again, shitty production spoils it rather. The one on "Pulp On Fire" is 8 minutes long, so I assume that's the complete unexpergated version.

The Plunger

This Is Harddcore for me. The Fear, Dishes and Glory Days are acts of wonder. Actually, a few months ago I was in Fopp and they were selling copies of We Love Life and Pulp Hits for £3 in the traditional 'flog old shit dirt cheap and we'll eventually get rid of it' graveyard at the front of the store. This made me very sad for some reason.  They deserve better, but alas I feel most of the general public will always class them as the 'common people/michael jackson bashing/witty bloke on Pop Quiz' band.

Cambrian Times

I'm bumping this thread because Jarvis Cocker is going to host Marc Riley's Rocket Science show on 6music tomorrow and next saturday between 1 and 4

BagJob

Thanks for the heads up.

>What makes me what?
>What makes you frightened?
>Errr.....wasps...
Anyone who's got 'Get Frisky with Pulp' will know that bit.

It is very tricky to choose a favourite pulp album. I think I'll plump for 'We Love Life' as this has Bob Lind, The Wickerman and Bad Cover Version. The video to Bad Cover Version is one of the funniest music vids I've seen. Pulp were a genius band.

SurferGhost

Hmm, very difficult.

My heart's head says We Love Life, but my heart's awkwardly-shuffling feet say Different Class.
Either way though, my heart's involved.

smufflebob

i've gone for seperations.

I think different class overrated, it has 2 good songs but also a lot of radio-friendly filler. I have very fond memories of His and Hers but this may be due to the time it came out (lots of 6th form discos and summer frolics).

We love life and This is hardcore both come in a joint second for me and I do agree with daves that wickerman in brilliant, but my favourite pulp song is 'his and hers' from the sisters ep.

23 Daves

A quick *bump* to say that three of these albums - "His N Hers", "Different Class" and "This is Hardcore" - are going to be remastered by Island Records and re-released at the end of August.  They will come with bonus discs including out-takes and B-sides, and extensive liner notes.  I hope I do not blow all my hard-earned cash on these at once, but I can see I probably will if they're done well enough.

On top of that, Jarvis has just premiered some new solo material on MySpace.  And I hate to say it, but... on first listen, it's not great.  The track "Running The World" is a rather savage side-swipe at Live 8 and the antics of Bob Geldof and Bono, but it's not classic Cocker to my ears in its present state.  Sounds very B-side-ish.  However, I'll stop short of drawing any harsh conclusions about future output from this one little morsel, as it's really not enough to draw any fair conclusions, and I suspect he probably uploaded it especially for the Live 8 anniversary:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=90237943

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

I like that new tune, although for some reason it's rather shocking to hear Jarvis use the word 'cunt'. Is it my imagination or has he used part of the tune from Band Aid for that?

Why I Hate Tables

The best Pulp album is in my opinion This Is Hardocre.

I'm in the minority who enjoy Seductive Barry.

New Jarvis Cocker stuff very good, nice to hear from him again. Wicker Man is not only a brilliant song but uses a sample from Willow's Song, which even if it wasn't a good song would make it at least interesting.

I've not heard much before Different Class,which I disliked on the most part. Are there any other Pulp songs like Wickerman before then?

I hope Jarvis does something with Scott Walker personally. Relaxed Muscle was a bit of a misfire, and he's worked with Scott before, so it could happen.

But won't.

LeboviciAB84

You are called Why I Hate Tables. Does this mean you are Jaaaaam off YouTube? (Don't bother answering that; my journalistic nous will shortly reveal this to be the case.)

MySpace music doesn't work on this computer, and I've only got We Love Life; however, it was wonderful to see Scott making the best of his destructive, epic tendencies for the closing track, Sunrise. It seemed like a natural extrapolation of the gloriously glossy, skid-along pop found on Pulp's earlier singles. I wouldn't want Scott to get overexposed, though. He's turning into a bit of a media tart.

Ray Le Otter

Here are the tracklistings for the re-issues:

Different Class:
CD One - Original Album:
1. Mis Shapes
2. Pencil Skirt
3. Common People
4. I Spy
5. Disco 2000
6. Live Bed Show
7. Something Changed
8. Sorted For E's & Wizz
9. F.E.E.L.I.N.G.C.A.L.L.E.D.L.O.V.E.
10. Underwear
11. Monday Morning
12. Bar Italia

CD Two - Bonus Material:
1. Mile End - B-Side
2. PTA - B-Side
3. Ansaphone - B-Side
4. Paula - Demo - Previously Unreleased
5. Catcliffe Shakedown - Demo - Previously Unreleased
6. We Can Dance Again - Demo - Previously Unreleased
7. Don't Lose It - Demo - Previously Unreleased
8. Common People - Live at Glastonbury - B-Side
9. Common People - Vocoda Mix - B-Side
10. Whisky in the Jar - French only B-Side [not available in UK before]
11. Disco 2000 - Nick Cave Pub Rock Version - B-Side


His N Hers:
CD One - Original Album:
1. Joyriders
2. Lipgloss
3. Acrylic Afternoons
4. Have You Seen Her Lately?
5. Babies - New Mix
6. She's A Lady
7. Happy Endings
8. Do You Remember The First Time?
9. Pink Glove
10. Someone Like The Moon
11. David's Last Summer

CD Two - Bonus Material:
1. Your Sister's Clothes - B-Side
2. Seconds - B-Side
3. His'n'Hers - B-Side
4. Street Lites - B-Side
5. The Babysitter - B-Side
6. Deep Fried in Kelvin - B-Side
7. You're a Nightmare - BBC John Peel Session - Previously Unreleased
8. Live On - BBC Mark Goodier Session - Previously Unreleased
9. Space - BBC Hit The North Session soundcheck outtake - Previously Unreleased
10. The Boss - Demo - Previously Unreleased
11. Watching Nicky - Demo - Previously Unreleased
12. You're not Blind - Demo - Previously Unreleased
13. Frightened - Demo - Previously Unreleased

This Is Hardcore:
CD One - Original Album:
1. The Fear
2. Dishes
3. Party Hard
4. Help The Aged
5. This Is Hardcore
6. TV Movie
7. A Little Soul
8. I'm A Man
9. Seductive Barry
10. Sylvia
11. Glory Days
12. The Day After The Revolution

CD Two - Bonus Material:
1. Cocaine Socialism - 'Proper' Version of B-Side - Previously Unreleased
2. Like a Friend - B-Side
3. Ladies' Man - B-Side
4. The Professional - B-Side
5. Tomorrow Never Dies - Rough Mix - Previously Unreleased
6. Laughing Boy - B-Side
7. Can I Have my Balls Back, Please? - Demo - Previously Unreleased
8. Street Operator - Demo - Previously Unreleased
9. Modern Marriage - Demo - Previously Unreleased
10. My Erection - Demo - Previously Unreleased
11. You Are The One - Demo - Previously Unreleased
12. She Said She Was A Dancer - Recording Session Outtake - Previously Unreleased
13. This is Hardcore - End of the Line Mix - B-Side
14. We Are The Boys - B-Side
15. That Boy's Evil - B-Side


Hmmm. Stuff missing I see. Where's the seven inch mix of "Party Hard"? The single mix of  "Disco 2000"? And "Whiskey In The Jar" has been released before. But loads of demos for stuff not good enough for the albums.

The Mumbler

Does the band really despise the single version of Disco 2000 or something?  It wasn't on the Hits compilation either.  I put that down to Island/Universal's incompetence/disinterest, but this suggests that the band's not keen on it either.  Mind you, the remixes of Common People were iffy, and the Motiv8 mix is here, so who knows?  And Jarvis really hates Misshapes, apparently, which is why that one (a #2 hit single) wasn't on Hits.

I still have to get these, though.  Might even get This Is Hardcore, although I only really like The Fear and the title track off the original album.

Paul Dee

Quote from: "The Mumbler"Does the band really despise the single version of Disco 2000 or something?  It wasn't on the Hits compilation either.

edit: I AM A MORON

edit: What is the difference between the album and single versions?

I don't understand why Moloko Woman's cover isn't featured on that disc though, if they're going with the Bad Cover Version b-sides of Different Class songs. She did Sorted for E's and Whizz didn't she?

The Mumbler

Quote from: "Paul Dee"
Quote from: "The Mumbler"Does the band really despise the single version of Disco 2000 or something?  It wasn't on the Hits compilation either.


edit: What is the difference between the album and single versions?

It was a remix, and unusually for a single version, was slightly longer than the album version.  It had an extra talkover-bit after the second chorus, the content of which I can't remember now.  I'm sure someone will oblige.