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Corbyn 25: Don't recall the time I felt this alive

Started by pancreas, October 15, 2019, 04:14:15 PM

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Buelligan

Let me tidy up this glitch for you Sir, my pleasure.

Sin Agog

It's interesting to think now that Corbyn was always a leaver, albeit for old-school socialist reasons rather than older-school tribalism, and his initial response to the referendum was to see it through and quash any cries for revoking or second referendums. Retrospectively he was right and that's another black mark on the centrists' rap sheet who are now blaming everything on him. Somehow, though, this leaver lost all the leave votes and clung onto most of the remains.   Having to constantly deflect or white lie on this one issue would leach the iron out of anyone's blood.  He was probably only 6 or 7 out of 10 in favour of leaving, but I'm sorta glad he doesn't have to play the stoic anymore.

Replies From View

He's going to become more of a loved figure when he steps down as leader, I suspect.  Years from now, people who were not supporters will start wondering what-if.

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: Sin Agog on December 15, 2019, 12:32:12 AM
It's interesting to think now that Corbyn was always a leaver

Interesting but wrong.

Paul Calf

Quote from: Replies From View on December 15, 2019, 01:24:50 AM
He's going to become more of a loved figure when he steps down as leader, I suspect.  Years from now, people who were not supporters will start wondering what-if.

If the GoveChipsTM implanted in their brains allow them to remember him.

phantom_power

Quote from: Replies From View on December 15, 2019, 01:24:50 AM
He's going to become more of a loved figure when he steps down as leader, I suspect.  Years from now, people who were not supporters will start wondering what-if.

I fear the opposite will be true. All the genuine good stuff he has been responsible for will be lost in all the "Corbynista" shit and how big the defeat was, and all the gobby centrists constantly calling him an extremist


phantom_power

He is just a decent man isn't he, which makes all the accusations even more ridiculous and frustrating. Most other people would just be telling everyone they are cunts and can fuck off if they were smeared and belittled as much as he has been

Jockice

#2198
Quote from: Replies From View on December 15, 2019, 01:24:50 AM
He's going to become more of a loved figure when he steps down as leader, I suspect.  Years from now, people who were not supporters will start wondering what-if.

Michael Foot and Tony Benn are fairly well respected nowadays I think. Although I respected them at the time too. As I do with Jezza. He would have been a brilliant Prime Minister if you ask me. Which of course you didn't.

Incidentally, I was having a messenger chat with a 13-year-old girl last night. Totally legitimately. Her mum was in the room with her at the time. And she is absolutely disgusted at the older generation's decision to back Boris and Brexit. She brought the subject up not me. So there is hope for the future. She is completely wrong about those long things you sit on in the living room though. Couch not sofa. End of.

Sin Agog

Quote from: Johnny Yesno on December 15, 2019, 03:00:38 AM
Interesting but wrong.

All the clips like this kind of say otherwise.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErEumAi_zGU

(Sorry for linking to a dodgy youtube channel, but I'm a lazy googler).

Schmo Diddley

Quote from: phantom_power on December 15, 2019, 08:12:15 AM
I fear the opposite will be true. All the genuine good stuff he has been responsible for will be lost in all the "Corbynista" shit and how big the defeat was, and all the gobby centrists constantly calling him an extremist

Yep, he's going to have the piss taken out of him left right and centre so that anyone sympathetic or supportive is deranged by association.

On my work what's app group yesterday someone showed a picture of Edward VIII next to Hitler (in relation to the queen looking for someone to manage her social media account.)

My boss said 'was Eddie VIII related to the corbyns too'. I don't really know what point she was trying to make (Other than make herself seem like a witless cunt) but this is the sort of treatment he'll get constantly. Because the English love to kick the loser even more than we enjoy winning. And the Tories do especially.

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: Sin Agog on December 15, 2019, 09:52:29 AM
All the clips like this kind of say otherwise.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErEumAi_zGU

(Sorry for linking to a dodgy youtube channel, but I'm a lazy googler).

I've seen them before. They're old clips. Don't use dodgy YouTube channels as your sources of information. Listen to people who know him:

Novara meet Yanis Varoufakis live at The World Transformed: https://youtu.be/9Ck0Jg92bPk?t=15m11s

poodlefaker

It's not so much that he was a leaver, more that he is a democrat: if the people vote, you go along with the result, even if you don't like it. I kept hearing people say "Why doesn't he resign, he must see how unpopular he is?" Same reason: he'd been elected (twice) by the members, it would be undemocratic to do so.

Danger Man

Quote from: Jockice on December 15, 2019, 09:47:15 AM
Michael Foot and Tony Benn are fairly well respected nowadays.

Incidentally, I was having a messenger chat with a 13-year-old girl last night. Totally legitimately.

I can't decide which of the above is the most unbelievable.

Jockice

Quote from: Danger Man on December 15, 2019, 10:42:45 AM
I can't decide which of the above is the most unbelievable.

Place your bets now ladies and gentlemen.

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: Danger Man on December 15, 2019, 10:42:45 AM
I can't decide which of the above is the most unbelievable.

I think that says more about you than it does about Jockice.

Jockice

Quote from: Johnny Yesno on December 15, 2019, 10:48:56 AM
I think that says more about you than it does about Jockice.

Don't worry Johnny. I'm cool with Danger Man. We know each other's senses of humour.  I laughed.

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: poodlefaker on December 15, 2019, 10:41:33 AM
It's not so much that he was a leaver, more that he is a democrat: if the people vote, you go along with the result, even if you don't like it. I kept hearing people say "Why doesn't he resign, he must see how unpopular he is?" Same reason: he'd been elected (twice) by the members, it would be undemocratic to do so.

True, but as evidenced in the video I linked to above, he thinks leaving is a terrible idea.

Danger Man

Quote from: Jockice on December 15, 2019, 10:48:01 AM
Place your bets now ladies and gentlemen.

Having thought about it, Jockice is ginger and therefore is no threat to women. So I'm going with Michael Foot being well respected nowadays.

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: Jockice on December 15, 2019, 10:50:49 AM
Don't worry Johnny. I'm cool with Danger Man. We know each other's senses of humour.  I laughed.

I laughed too.

It's still true, though.

Jockice

Quote from: Danger Man on December 15, 2019, 10:53:19 AM
Having thought about it, Jockice is ginger and therefore is no threat to women. So I'm going with Michael Foot being well respected nowadays.

Outside! Now!

Bennett Brauer

Gordievsky's insistence that Foot was accepting money from the KGB (they called him Agent Boot) hasn't gone away, and MI6 said last year they believed so.

(I guess that's what Danger Man had in mind.)

Harry Badger

Quote from: Bennett Brauer on December 15, 2019, 12:24:47 PM
Gordievsky's insistence that Foot was accepting money from the KGB (they called him Agent Boot) hasn't gone away, and MI6 said last year they believed so.


I thought that had long been discredited. Foot won a libel case against the Times which paid for what he called 'The Murdoch Kitchen' in his house.

Bennett Brauer

He did indeed. I'm unclear on what exactly the new evidence since then is (I think it's all in Ben Macintyre's recent book The Spy and The Traitor, but it's been a while since I read it), but it's supposed to be more than was known at the time of Foot's lawsuit.

According to Gordievsky, the KGB had a 400-page file on Foot which was started in the 1940s when he started accepting money from them. He was originally described as 'Agent' on the front, but this was changed to ''Confidential Contact' after Foot spoke out about the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968.

It's always possible that Gordievsky isn't as reliable as he's thought to be, but if what he says is true it may be that Foot was naive and foolish, accepting the money to finance Tribune and as donations to the advancement of socialism (although it's alleged he kept some for himself).

ZoyzaSorris

Do you genuinely trust those sources (Mi6 in particular?)

Buelligan

Always trust the people in charge, they only serve peace and freedom.


Bennett Brauer

Quote from: ZoyzaSorris on December 16, 2019, 06:38:59 AM
Do you genuinely trust those sources (Mi6 in particular?)

Not implicitly, no. But I don't disbelieve it either. MI6 is repeating information given to them by Gordievsky, and he hasn't objected to anything they've reported. Gordievsky himself is reputedly dependable, but it's obviously a murky business. I mean if the KGB's file on Foot turned up, we'd wonder whether it was fake.

The allegation is that Foot took money and was being used for purposes of disinformation, not that he was a spy. I brought it up in the light of the earlier comment that Foot is well-respected these days.

evilcommiedictator

I think in regards to leave there's two points of view, on one of the recent TrashFuture podcasts they talked about remain-ing, because even though the EU is a technocratic neoliberal wankfest, the point of it is decent and the UK being one of the biggest members could effect change from within - the government simply breaking EU rules and getting the EU to actually respond.
Whereas I think Corbyn was correct in sticking with Leave - disregarding the whole issue of ignoring the first referendum - in that it gives the government a great chance to rip a lot of shit out of the ground and start again, and blame it on the change. Don't like social housing? Well, we're nationalizing a bunch of these housing fucks and turning over the houses to the people, same goes for breaking up monopolies and the media

BlodwynPig

https://www.thesundaily.my/world/stunning-uk-election-result-no-surprise-in-labour-bastion-HA1772696

Oh dear

QuoteMartin Farr, senior lecturer in contemporary British history at Newcastle University, said Blyth Valley was a "perfect storm" for the election's biggest shock.

"A well-established Brexiteer local MP standing down in a town that has suffered enormously, and a totally inept Labour leader," he told AFP.

NoSleep

Quote from: evilcommiedictator on December 16, 2019, 11:06:42 AM
I think in regards to leave there's two points of view, on one of the recent TrashFuture podcasts they talked about remain-ing, because even though the EU is a technocratic neoliberal wankfest, the point of it is decent and the UK being one of the biggest members could effect change from within - the government simply breaking EU rules and getting the EU to actually respond.
Whereas I think Corbyn was correct in sticking with Leave - disregarding the whole issue of ignoring the first referendum - in that it gives the government a great chance to rip a lot of shit out of the ground and start again, and blame it on the change. Don't like social housing? Well, we're nationalizing a bunch of these housing fucks and turning over the houses to the people, same goes for breaking up monopolies and the media

Corbyn was the first to say "let's get on with it." But because it was him, it had to be made to be the wrong thing to say. Corbyn is always wrong.