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The Irishman (new Scorsese film feat. De Niro, Pacino, Pesci)

Started by Blinder Data, October 16, 2019, 03:57:53 PM

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Shit Good Nose

Once I got over the de-aging (and some of it did look weird - in the early part Joe Pesci especially looked like Roark Junior from Sin City but without the green skin), I really got immersed in it and thoroughly enjoyed it.  Admittedly it probs would've been a bit of a hard slog at the flicks, but comfy in my own home with the ability to pause (which, actually, I never did - watched it straight through) it never dragged for or felt overlong to me.

Great to see Pesci on screen again, easily the best and most committed performance De Niro has done in ages, and Pacino was clearly enjoying himself as well.

Admittedly I think it would have been better had they got different actors for the younger counterparts (Pesci calling De Niro "kid" when he's already well into his 40s raise an eyebrow) rather than younging down on an iMac, but on the other hand I understand that - unlike, say, Once Upon A Time In America, which follows the characters from children - the characters in The Irishman are already adults (some of them already old when we meet them), so having different actors would be a bit jarring.  Which ultimately leaves the only other option of recasting completely, as Lost Oliver said above, and relying on makeup and/or prosthetics.

But, like I said at the start of this post, I got over it, and it didn't take me long either.

My only real negative comment is that bit when De Niro - clearly physically too old - "kicks the shit" out of the grocery store guy.  Comical.  And I don't think that was the intention.

For me and my personal subjective opinion it's Scorsese's best film since Bringing Out the Dead.

I liked the stuff with old De Niro in the home towards the end. I can't believe the dodgy "young" effects are actually being praised. But in a few years we'll be able to do that stuff properly and maybe this is a significant stepping stone towards that.

Shit Good Nose

Quote from: thecuriousorange on January 20, 2020, 02:22:41 PM
I liked the stuff with old De Niro in the home towards the end. I can't believe the dodgy "young" effects are actually being praised. But in a few years we'll be able to do that stuff properly and maybe this is a significant stepping stone towards that.

To be fair, I thought some of it was pretty good, but the main problem is that is was inconsistent.  I don't know if that's because different ages lend themselves better to CGI, or they ran out of money, or different people worked on it, or they used more than one piece of software or what.  But it's the eyes they struggle with, of course.

RE the bit in bold - the de-aging work on Michael Douglas in Ant Man is superb and still looks superb now 5 years later, and that was all CGI.  I've never understood how or why we've not seen anything even approaching that quality since.

Sin Agog

Quote from: thecuriousorange on January 20, 2020, 02:22:41 PM
I liked the stuff with old De Niro in the home towards the end. I can't believe the dodgy "young" effects are actually being praised. But in a few years we'll be able to do that stuff properly and maybe this is a significant stepping stone towards that.

Scorsese said something about not being able to get anywhere near the actors during any scene where the Youngenator cameras were in use.  It just required too many people and too much equipment to squeeze in even his tiny self.  I wonder if that partly explains why so many people are enjoying the last hour more.  Finally shorn of all the clutter, Scorsese decided to get intimate in a way he probably should have done from the beginning.

Alberon

Here's the real Jimmy Hoffa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWitsAgxd8U

They got his office right anyway.

Bad video, but here is, reportedly, part of his final interview.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e8U-Bki7bM

If you're going to depict a character over many decades, at different stages of life, it's a million times easier with a young actor. Citizen Kane did it well and computers hadn't even been dreamt of then.

bgmnts

I've watched this 4 times now and it's still incredible how much of a vacuum De Niro is in this. His character is just nothing, and it really frustrates me. It works in the context of being around Hoffa because Al Pacino plays him really well, he's eccentric and angry and shouty and it's entertaining, and opposite Pesci who is quietly dominating and subtle.

So yeah, a bit crap all in all. Except Al, he's great.

I only just copped Steve Van Zandt singing at that party though! That was fun.

I thought this was pretty good, but I should add that I was drunk when I watched it, which probably helped with the long running time. They more or less get away with the de-aging, if you ask me. Purely subjective, of course, and everyone seems to have had different levels of reaction to it.

I don't know if I agree that it's always better to age a younger actor upwards. I thought it looked shit in Citizen Kane, and looked bad even with modern makeup effects in the J. Edgar film.

Sin Agog

Quote from: bgmnts on January 22, 2020, 08:40:14 PM
I've watched this 4 times now and it's still incredible how much of a vacuum De Niro is in this. His character is just nothing, and it really frustrates me. It works in the context of being around Hoffa because Al Pacino plays him really well, he's eccentric and angry and shouty and it's entertaining, and opposite Pesci who is quietly dominating and subtle.

So yeah, a bit crap all in all. Except Al, he's great.

I only just copped Steve Van Zandt singing at that party though! That was fun.

Why in the name of Crom would you watch a film you thought was a a bit crap four times in a couple of weeks?

bgmnts

Quote from: Sin Agog on January 23, 2020, 04:25:21 PM
Why in the name of Crom would you watch a film you thought was a a bit crap four times in a couple of weeks?

Because its Scorcese and I give him the benefit of the doubt. And like I say there are some really good aspects of it. The scenes between Al Pacino and Stephen Graham are exceptional.


Blumf

Quote from: Sin Agog on January 23, 2020, 04:25:21 PM
Why in the name of Crom would you watch a film you thought was a a bit crap four times in a couple of weeks?

A 3 1/2 hour one at that!


Elderly Sumo Prophecy

Pesci standing at the front there to make himself look taller, like Ronnie James Dio.

touchingcloth

Guy at work described this as "a classy gangster film" after watching less than half of it. Makes me think "MEH".

Jim Bob

Quote from: thecuriousorange on January 24, 2020, 08:02:42 PM
More names above the wrong heads on a poster. Sigh.

And they're all looking at different points of interest.  A double whammy of shit poster tropes.

Quote from: Elderly Sumo Prophecy on January 24, 2020, 08:25:43 PM
Pesci standing at the front there to make himself look taller, like Ronnie James Dio.

More like Ronnie Pickering.

Quote from: Elderly Sumo Prophecy on January 24, 2020, 08:25:43 PM
Pesci standing at the front there to make himself look taller, like Ronnie James Dio.

I do find it "funny how" good he was at that.


Elderly Sumo Prophecy

#196
Souness and Keegan on the right there. Tightest rhythm section this side of Doncaster Valhalla.


Elderly Sumo Prophecy

Could be anybody from the 70's with curly long hair and a moustache really. Like your Mum.

Shit Good Nose

Those of you who are completely unimpressed will be delighted to learn that Criterion are releasing it on blu-ray, along with a few other Netflix productions.

Custard

They really should have saved millions and just Deep Faked it

I mean, look at how much better this is!

https://youtu.be/dHSTWepkp_M

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: Shit Good Nose on January 27, 2020, 07:54:35 PM
Those of you who are completely unimpressed will be delighted to learn that Criterion are releasing it on blu-ray, along with a few other Netflix productions.

It'll be interesting to see how well these sell. I mean, yes I can see bluray is better, but it's already there on Netflix in better-than-acceptable quality.

I think seeing it on a big screen is more important than slightly better image quality with a big Scorsese film as that's what he's used to directing for. There's a time when I would've said also for the crowd experience, but tbh when I went although it was packed, I think the crowed may as well have been catatonic for this... I've had a great time seeing things like Goodfellas in a busy cinema though.

El Unicornio, mang

#202
Quote from: Shameless Custard on August 23, 2020, 10:05:02 AM
They really should have saved millions and just Deep Faked it

I mean, look at how much better this is!

https://youtu.be/dHSTWepkp_M

Brilliant, although I wonder if they'd be able to do the whole film. Would definitely download a deepfake version to replace the regular one if they could maintain that quality throughout.

I made a 3d model De Niro circa mid 70s (and 3 other actors) for this little Unreal Engine project, it's obviously not real enough to pass, was just mucking about with it really, but shows what even just commercial software/very little experience is capable of making

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJSwOaGZvsQ


lipsink

Quote from: Shameless Custard on August 23, 2020, 10:05:02 AM
They really should have saved millions and just Deep Faked it

I mean, look at how much better this is!

https://youtu.be/dHSTWepkp_M

Saw that this morning and it's incredible. While watching it I kept getting angry looking at the left hand side and it reminding me just how badly they blew it.
I remember someone argued with me "It's just cos you know DeNiro is old now so you can't see him looking younger". But in that video he looks younger!

Shit Good Nose

Isn't the main issue with deepfake to do with copyright?  Cos it's using pre-existing footage and images?  Sure I read that somewhere.

El Unicornio, mang

There's a pretty good mini doc about how they did the FX here. Highlight for me is the footage at 3:25 of De Niro recreating a scene from Goodfellas so they can test the technology. Clearly they put a lot of work into it, so it's a shame that it doesn't quite work. The deepfake is much, much closer to what I had in my mind when they announced the project.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF-lElIlZM0

Quote from: Shit Good Nose on August 23, 2020, 01:14:06 PM
Isn't the main issue with deepfake to do with copyright?  Cos it's using pre-existing footage and images?  Sure I read that somewhere.

They did use the actors' back catalogues to create the 3d face models, so not sure if that's an issue. Possibly Deepfake doesn't work as well with other scenes, the examples shown are pretty basic shots with very little movement.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: Shit Good Nose on January 20, 2020, 02:30:32 PM
To be fair, I thought some of it was pretty good, but the main problem is that is was inconsistent.  I don't know if that's because different ages lend themselves better to CGI, or they ran out of money, or different people worked on it, or they used more than one piece of software or what.  But it's the eyes they struggle with, of course.

RE the bit in bold - the de-aging work on Michael Douglas in Ant Man is superb and still looks superb now 5 years later, and that was all CGI.  I've never understood how or why we've not seen anything even approaching that quality since.

I didn't notice the de-aging once I got into the film, but side-by side really does highlight the eyes.

I notice they must've cgi'd his eye colour to blue as well. Well, I assume it's cgi rather than contact lenses.

El Unicornio, mang

Bobbins film, and bobbins scene, but I like what they did with the de-aging for Terminator: Dark Fate. Getting a young actor to do the body then putting Arnie's face on it really sells it, one of the biggest gripes with The Irishman was the bodies looking/moving like much older men.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgbfYISdYAA

I think all the Marvel de-aging has been decent. The aforementioned Michael Douglas probably being the best but also thought they did a good job of Kurt Russell and Robert Downey Jr. Samuel L Jackson pretty seamless too although he looks pretty much the same as he did 40 years ago anyway...

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: El Unicornio, mang on August 23, 2020, 02:16:59 PM
Bobbins film, and bobbins scene, but I like what they did with the de-aging for Terminator: Dark Fate. Getting a young actor to do the body then putting Arnie's face on it really sells it, one of the biggest gripes with The Irishman was the bodies looking/moving like much older men.

Yes it's really baffling why they didn't use body doubles in a couple of scenes where they're scrapping.

It was also used quite convincingly to resurrect Rachael in Blade Runner 2049.

Elderly Sumo Prophecy

There's another scene where he has to clamber over some rocks to throw his gun in the river or sea (I forget which), and a younger man would be casually vaulting over them, whereas DeNiro very gingerly makes his way there, because he doesn't want to fall over and break his hip. Then he chucks his gun in the water with this really crap underarm throw so it barely goes three metres. Like, imagine Mr Burns throwing a gun.