Author Topic: The Irishman (new Scorsese film feat. De Niro, Pacino, Pesci)  (Read 8824 times)

Re: The Irishman (new Scorsese film feat. De Niro, Pacino, Pesci)
« Reply #120 on: December 02, 2019, 11:55:18 PM »
Talking of avuncular elder crims, Pesci felt poorly served to me

I felt we were just surfing on his younger roles too. With him being so small and old and frail I never got any sense that he was a threat to anyone, or ever, frankly, and the little and large act with De Niro looked more comical than intimidating or intense.

Fairly clear Marty was going for something more studied and sedate but Goodfellas and Casino really show how vital it is to have that kinetic energy driving and zipping through the story. Agree with whoever said those death-cards were a critical misstep.

Also felt a weird commonality with Tarantino's latest. Watching so close together it struck me how both had these 5 minute flashes where you felt the genius again and thought 'finally, I can just relax and enjoy it in real time' only to check yourself ten minutes later because they are both so incredibly, terminably tedious.

Re: The Irishman (new Scorsese film feat. De Niro, Pacino, Pesci)
« Reply #121 on: December 03, 2019, 12:37:53 AM »
Also felt a weird commonality with Tarantino's latest. Watching so close together it struck me how both had these 5 minute flashes where you felt the genius again and thought 'finally, I can just relax and enjoy it in real time' only to check yourself ten minutes later because they are both so incredibly, terminably tedious.

I'd say the obvious differences there would be Tarantino having much more interesting protagonists and his setting being far more evocative. I mean visually what was memorable here? I watched it this morning and I'd have trouble bringing anything specific to mind, maybe the carwash?

Maybe it was the bowling scene but visually what it brought to mind for me was actually the Coens but in their case I would say the wider scenes are often(not always of course) deliberately a bit bland so as to throw their larger than life characters into sharper relief, something this film clearly lacked.

Re: The Irishman (new Scorsese film feat. De Niro, Pacino, Pesci)
« Reply #122 on: December 03, 2019, 02:42:26 AM »
I wouldn't necessarily disagree on the aesthetics. Hollywood was gorgeous with great music and makes a much better fist of mixed-media to evoke the time in the Tarantino way (a technique itself arguably built on Scorsese's earlier work).

But I didn't find the protagonists of Hollywood compelling at all. In fact I'd say it's the major flaw of the movie. Dicaprio is too affected for me. The mood shifts rapidly between movies, hippies and blatant set-pieces for Pitt to flex iconic (although he is the best thing in it). It feels like five movies shoved into one because it is basically.

Whereas I found myself far more connected and involved in The Irishman. The albeit familiar world at least feels full of real people rather than cartoons. It's a character study with a fairly clear thread that just gets too drawn out in a not particularly exciting way. Pacino is fantastic and steals it. But boring and pointless in Hollywood. I dunno. They both frustrate me ultimately because I would've just nuked 40% of the script. 

lebowskibukowski

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Re: The Irishman (new Scorsese film feat. De Niro, Pacino, Pesci)
« Reply #123 on: December 03, 2019, 10:30:37 AM »
It's very enjoyable, but doesn't feel like anything you haven't seen before from Scorcese. The portrayal of Hoffa seems to be very sympathetic, but I've probably been coloured by the spleen-venting fuckwit as he is written in the James Ellroy novels. Also, it might just be my poor hearing, but I could've sworn that Stephen Graham slipped into full blown Scouse during one of the scenes with Pacino.

Re: The Irishman (new Scorsese film feat. De Niro, Pacino, Pesci)
« Reply #124 on: December 03, 2019, 12:29:01 PM »
Maybe it was the bowling scene but visually what it brought to mind for me was actually the Coens but in their case I would say the wider scenes are often(not always of course) deliberately a bit bland so as to throw their larger than life characters into sharper relief, something this film clearly lacked.

Yes! I was really wondering what the visual style reminded me of, a very specific style of low-key very America-specific ambience and it is the Coens. Scorsese really dialled down a lot of his visual flair for this in a way that I'm sure is deliberate seeing as he dialled it up for WOWT, but I'm not sure if it was the right call all the way through. The first hour of this was quite flat tbh, because it just hovered around 'well made but unexceptional crime saga' for a while and without an interesting visual energy it seemed at risk of stalling

Re: The Irishman (new Scorsese film feat. De Niro, Pacino, Pesci)
« Reply #125 on: December 03, 2019, 10:58:59 PM »
this was okay. fairly boring but some good bits. probably wouldn't watch it again.

biggest criticism was the CGI. looked crap and made the timejumps incredibly confusing. just cast a younger lookalike.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

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Re: The Irishman (new Scorsese film feat. De Niro, Pacino, Pesci)
« Reply #126 on: December 04, 2019, 12:02:13 AM »
Has anyone here seen F.I.S.T, the Hoffa-based drama starring Sylvester Stallone, directed by Norman Jewison and co-written by Sly and Joe Eszterhaus?

It's not a great film, but the first gritty hour or so, during which 'Hoffa' mobilises the union then gets in with some bad lads, is pretty solid. Its potential drains away in the confused and cumbersome final act, when it becomes abundantly clear that the film was fatally compromised by Stallone, Jewison and Eszterhaus pulling in different directions, but it's still a half-decent stab at a Godfather-esque epic.

Stallone is pretty good in it too, as he was still in that early post-Rocky 'serious actor' phase of his career.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

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Re: The Irishman (new Scorsese film feat. De Niro, Pacino, Pesci)
« Reply #127 on: December 04, 2019, 05:54:35 AM »
One hour in. I'm not finding this a drag at all. Yes, it's post-war gangsters doing post-war gangster things, but that's the entire premise of the film. It's an engaging story.

The de-aging effects are marginally distracting during the first 20 minutes, but it's not as if they look like characters from The Polar Express. It's not an issue in the slightest once you dig in and go with it.

Also, Pacino is brilliant.

Re: The Irishman (new Scorsese film feat. De Niro, Pacino, Pesci)
« Reply #128 on: December 04, 2019, 06:00:40 AM »
Yes, it's post-war gangsters doing post-war gangster things, but that's the entire premise of the film.

Not the entire premise, it does get more interesting than that. You'll see what I mean. Whether the first hour drags for people or not, everything makes sense once the entire scope of the thing is revealed

Re: The Irishman (new Scorsese film feat. De Niro, Pacino, Pesci)
« Reply #129 on: December 04, 2019, 06:15:23 AM »
Yes! I was really wondering what the visual style reminded me of, a very specific style of low-key very America-specific ambience and it is the Coens. Scorsese really dialled down a lot of his visual flair for this in a way that I'm sure is deliberate seeing as he dialled it up for WOWT, but I'm not sure if it was the right call all the way through. The first hour of this was quite flat tbh, because it just hovered around 'well made but unexceptional crime saga' for a while and without an interesting visual energy it seemed at risk of stalling

Again I think with the Coens this works because the characters involved stand out within that muted Americana setting but here you really had nothing like that until Pacino enters.

De Niro's character as a framing for the story I don't think was automatically a bad thing but I think a large chunk of the first hour or more showing his gangster background could have been cut without loosing much whilst his union background and divided loyalties could have been played up.

the science eel

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Re: The Irishman (new Scorsese film feat. De Niro, Pacino, Pesci)
« Reply #130 on: December 04, 2019, 11:54:24 AM »
One hour in. I'm not finding this a drag at all. Yes, it's post-war gangsters doing post-war gangster things, but that's the entire premise of the film. It's an engaging story.

The de-aging effects are marginally distracting during the first 20 minutes, but it's not as if they look like characters from The Polar Express. It's not an issue in the slightest once you dig in and go with it.

Also, Pacino is brilliant.

He's always brilliant. Even when he's not.



Re: The Irishman (new Scorsese film feat. De Niro, Pacino, Pesci)
« Reply #133 on: December 04, 2019, 12:32:42 PM »
Not bad, but not as good as Endgame.

Re: The Irishman (new Scorsese film feat. De Niro, Pacino, Pesci)
« Reply #134 on: December 04, 2019, 03:02:35 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO5rEeH5JQs

Oh bloody hell that's great!

Pacino just has that charisma and theatricality (theatre background maybe that's why) that De Niro doesn't have.

Him and De Niro did an interview the other week and De Niro just seemed so passive and bored whereas Pacino was just chuntering away like a boss.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

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Re: The Irishman (new Scorsese film feat. De Niro, Pacino, Pesci)
« Reply #135 on: December 04, 2019, 05:19:34 PM »
Not the entire premise, it does get more interesting than that. You'll see what I mean. Whether the first hour drags for people or not, everything makes sense once the entire scope of the thing is revealed

I loved it. More than any other Scorsese film, it unsparingly nailed the utter emptiness and futility of the mobster lifestyle. No glamour (the occasional glitzy nightclub notwithstanding), no excitement, just years - if you're lucky - of intense anxiety and eventual crippling loneliness.

You never feel sorry for Frank, he's an almost entirely amoral shitbag, but you do end up pitying him. What was it all for? Nothing.

I strongly disagree with those of you who reckon that De Niro is coasting here, it's his best performance in years. I don't mean that in a token "best album since Scary Monsters" way, it's a fully committed piece of acting. His barely self-contained anguish surrounding Hoffa's death (I suppose I should spoiler that?) is particularly well played.   

I was fully absorbed from start to finish, the film didn't drag for me at all. By the end I felt like I'd been slowly dragged through a wringer for nearly four hours. That's a compliment, obviously.

neveragain

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Re: The Irishman (new Scorsese film feat. De Niro, Pacino, Pesci)
« Reply #136 on: December 04, 2019, 06:36:17 PM »
Oh bloody hell that's great!

Pacino just has that charisma and theatricality (theatre background maybe that's why) that De Niro doesn't have.

Him and De Niro did an interview the other week and De Niro just seemed so passive and bored whereas Pacino was just chuntering away like a boss.

De Niro's never been comfortable on chat shows. Even the ebullient Graham Norton!

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

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Re: The Irishman (new Scorsese film feat. De Niro, Pacino, Pesci)
« Reply #137 on: December 04, 2019, 10:40:15 PM »
It really pissed me off when 'Twitter' recently slagged De Niro off for being boring on the Norton show.

Audiences are conditioned to respond passively to viral-ready bits of Hollywood actors performing OMG "You won't believe who Tom Fuck just did a perfect impersonation of!!!!"

De Niro turning up and being not arsed is positively heroic.

Re: The Irishman (new Scorsese film feat. De Niro, Pacino, Pesci)
« Reply #138 on: December 04, 2019, 10:43:42 PM »
This was just a sit down interview with Pacino rather than an abysmal talk show format where he's expected to perform. I think so anyway.

Sin Agog

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Re: The Irishman (new Scorsese film feat. De Niro, Pacino, Pesci)
« Reply #139 on: December 04, 2019, 10:44:22 PM »
De Niro's just a typical introvert, really.  Unless they've found some persona to glom onto, they're gonna come across pretty catatonic.

Sin Agog

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Re: The Irishman (new Scorsese film feat. De Niro, Pacino, Pesci)
« Reply #140 on: December 04, 2019, 11:02:45 PM »
By the way, for a surprisingly decent recent De Niro movie, The Intern with Anne Hathaway's pretty good.  He plays a 115-year-old intern.

Re: The Irishman (new Scorsese film feat. De Niro, Pacino, Pesci)
« Reply #141 on: December 04, 2019, 11:28:30 PM »
By the way, for a surprisingly decent recent De Niro movie, The Intern with Anne Hathaway's pretty good.  He plays a 115-year-old intern.

That film is laugh-out-loud funny, but probably not for quite the right reasons. I was surprised that it didn't get much criticism (or maybe just not that much attention in general) - it's one of the most blatantly anti-feminist films I've ever seen, the premise essentially being "this woman CEO's all emotional and mardy, thank God this relic of a gent is here to sort everything out for her". There's really not much more nuance to it than that. I think there's even a bit about how women are shit at driving. I watched it with an ex-girlfriend and our jaws hit the floor a few times, although I did learn to always carry a handkerchief on me for when the dames inevitably start crying.

I'm not even disparaging it really, it's fine in a very Nancy Meyers early-2000s-rental kind of way, but it's pretty fucking gobsmacking at times.

Re: The Irishman (new Scorsese film feat. De Niro, Pacino, Pesci)
« Reply #142 on: December 07, 2019, 07:34:12 PM »
I loved it. More than any other Scorsese film, it unsparingly nailed the utter emptiness and futility of the mobster lifestyle. No glamour (the occasional glitzy nightclub notwithstanding), no excitement, just years - if you're lucky - of intense anxiety and eventual crippling loneliness.

I spose that's part of the issue I have with it, in Goodfellas it feels like Henry Hill is trying to get somewhere, to a respectable upper middle class existence were as I didn't really get the sense Frank Sheeran was that interested in heading anywhere.

That's why I spose I felt like the Americana visuals and soundtrack were a bit disconnected to me as it was just a setting rather than anything that related directly to the story it was telling.

kngen

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Re: The Irishman (new Scorsese film feat. De Niro, Pacino, Pesci)
« Reply #143 on: December 08, 2019, 03:22:11 AM »
I loved it. More than any other Scorsese film, it unsparingly nailed the utter emptiness and futility of the mobster lifestyle. No glamour (the occasional glitzy nightclub notwithstanding), no excitement, just years - if you're lucky - of intense anxiety and eventual crippling loneliness.

You never feel sorry for Frank, he's an almost entirely amoral shitbag, but you do end up pitying him. What was it all for? Nothing.

I strongly disagree with those of you who reckon that De Niro is coasting here, it's his best performance in years. I don't mean that in a token "best album since Scary Monsters" way, it's a fully committed piece of acting. His barely self-contained anguish surrounding Hoffa's death (I suppose I should spoiler that?) is particularly well played.   

I was fully absorbed from start to finish, the film didn't drag for me at all. By the end I felt like I'd been slowly dragged through a wringer for nearly four hours. That's a compliment, obviously.

Finally, an opinion I can agree with. I'm finding I can't stopping think about extremely old Joe Pesci (who, after doing so much shite between Casino and his retirement, gives the perfect sign-off for his career. Fucking hell, he was great) in the prison and feeling terribly, terribly sad.

This might sound like absolute bollocks, but the last hour or so felt like a Beat Takeshi take on Tokyo Story or something. 'Men of honour' (ie mental gangster bastards) locked inexorably into the paths they had chosen long ago, and then left waiting for death to release them from their remorse and loneliness. Either way, it was fucking brilliant, and will stick with me for a while.

Aside from that, I could have watched Pacino and De Niro chatting away in their PJs for hours. There was something very sweet about that which almost seemed deliberately created to undermine their 'momentous first meeting' in Heat, as anticlimactic as that was.

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Re: The Irishman (new Scorsese film feat. De Niro, Pacino, Pesci)
« Reply #144 on: December 08, 2019, 06:37:12 AM »
Finally put aside enough time to watch this. That shop scene was laughable. Bob looked like an old chap flattening out the soil around a new flower he'd planted in his garden or something, not stomping on some guy's hand. The first kick he did was shite as well, there was no force in it and the shopkeeper didn't even react. It made it worse because it was all a single take filmed from outside the front of the shop, so you saw every little geriatric movement. Should have got a body double in for that one, or used a few jump cuts or something.

There was another jarring bit where the de-aging thing didn't quite work. DeNiro was climbing over some rocks so he could throw his gun into the sea, and you could tell he was being a bit over cautious with his footing, in case he slipped and ended up in traction for a few weeks. Then he threw his gun underhand into the water. Like a girl.

Was a bit shocked at how old Joe Pesci was looking. He's been retired for years, so the last thing I think I saw him in was actually Casino, when he was what, 40 odd, 50? Now he's got liver spots and grey hair.
Last hour of it dragged a fair bit. Just a lot of musing about getting old and death, which I suppose is understandable given the age of the director and the actors.

DeNiro's blue contact lenses (I'm presuming they weren't CGI) were very distracting. Looked like he had cataracts.

One word review: Old.

Re: The Irishman (new Scorsese film feat. De Niro, Pacino, Pesci)
« Reply #145 on: December 09, 2019, 10:04:44 AM »
Watched De Vito's 'Hoffa' after this. A much easier watch and the aging upwards was a lot more effective than the attempted aging down in the Irishman. Probably a bit more likely to be truer to the final outcome of Hoffa as well.
Feel like the Irishman could have been a lot better with younger (i.e. middle-aged) actors especially for the Frank Sheeran part. Also; seeing any photos or footage of Sheeran; particularly with the short Hoffa was how physically intimidating he was. Photos with Hoffa and Sheeran do stand out and that powerful imagery never really comes across.
Not that I think that the performances were bad from emotional stand-points. Pesci and Pacino (who I don't tend to like) were very compelling although I feel that Ray Romano was particularly superb. De Niro was solid and managed to keep one interested throughout the length of the film but feel the role could have been better with someone else.




thecuriousorange

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Re: The Irishman (new Scorsese film feat. De Niro, Pacino, Pesci)
« Reply #146 on: December 09, 2019, 12:38:03 PM »
The problem with Robert De Niro is that you can't forget that it's Robert De Niro, but that's fine as long as he plays Robert De Niro.

Elderly Sumo Prophecy

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Re: The Irishman (new Scorsese film feat. De Niro, Pacino, Pesci)
« Reply #147 on: December 09, 2019, 12:57:00 PM »
Did anyone watch that little round table featurette that played on Netflix after the film ended? Pesci looked even older in that than he does in the film. I think they removed some of his liver spots. Pacino did most of the talking, and DeNiro, predictably, didn't say very much at all. Just sat there and occasionally did that sort of "I dunno" thing he does with his mouth.

Re: The Irishman (new Scorsese film feat. De Niro, Pacino, Pesci)
« Reply #148 on: December 09, 2019, 01:10:28 PM »
Watched it for a second time off the internet and very enjoyable again. Although Hoffa's stubborn refusal to do as he's told towards the end did annoy me a little bit.

This tune from the soundtrack is a cracker. It's that instrumental guitar piece near the end of the film.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBRCvVpknvg

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Re: The Irishman (new Scorsese film feat. De Niro, Pacino, Pesci)
« Reply #149 on: December 09, 2019, 01:16:10 PM »
"It is what it is" is a pretty crap euphemism for "you are going to get killed if you keep pissing about". They could at least come up with something a bit more poetic, the gangsters.