Directors/Actors Who Dislike New Movies

[phantom_power]

I dunno, I think people who go and see superhero films in retail park cinemas don't like cinema, just like people who eat steak bakes in greggs don't really like pies.

Some people go to Greggs but also go to eat nice food, depending on their mood, situation, financial conditions. It isn't mutually exclusive

[Josef K]

I broadly agree with Scorsese but this point is tosh:

All the same, they lack something essential to cinema: the unifying vision of an individual artist. Because, of course, the individual artist is the riskiest factor of all.

I'd say part of the MCU's problem *is* the unifying vision of an individual artist and Kevin Feige's near complete control over the look and feel of the franchise.

Look at films like No Country for Old Men, Prisoners, or the Assassination of Jesse James  - all directed by auteurs but completely elevated by Deakins' cinematography, editors at the top of their game, etc etc

[phantom_power]

I don't think he is saying in his clarification anything that anyone with a bit of sense couldn't work out from his general persona. I think he is broadly correct but picking in the easy target (Marvel films that he will never work on anyway) rather than the actual underlying, more tricky to criticise reasons like lazy, risk-averse studio execs (who he might have to work with at some point)

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Fuck the execs, he should call out the conglomerates, go full Bernie bro on this shit

[Sebastian Cobb]

Some people go to Greggs but also go to eat nice food, depending on their mood, situation, financial conditions. It isn't mutually exclusive

Well imagine it's like demolition man and everywhere is a pizza hut or taco Bell.

[phantom_power]

Well imagine it's like demolition man and everywhere is a pizza hut or taco Bell.

But it's not, and the analogy doesn't even hold up to any sort of scrutiny

[Sebastian Cobb]

That corporations dominating a market leads to a paucity of choice, risk and innovation?

[Sin Agog]

That corporations dominating a market leads to a paucity of choice, risk and innovation?

You realise you can get cryo'd just for saying that?!

[Sebastian Cobb]

At least I'll be able to shatter these tagnuts off.

[Jim Bob]

I largely agree with Martin Scorsese.

[Monsieur Verdoux]

https://deadline.com/2019/11/john-woo-lupita-nyongo-the-killer-remake-face-off-reboot-comic-book-movies-martin-scorsese-1202787915/

Being an action film director with an affinity for larger-than-life, explosive double-gun action scenes complete with flying doves, many would think that Woo would be a great director for a Marvel or DC film. In fact, Woo said that the late, great Stan Lee actually approached him before the pre-MCU to helm a superhero pic, but he turned it down — and his answer would be the same today.

"I don't have that gift," he admitted. "I'm not a sci-fi guy — I don't think I could make a good one. There's so much imagination... I don't think I can reach that level."

Woo appreciates how the films entertain and make money, but has some reservations about and says that he agrees with Martin Scorsese's much-talked-about take on comic book movies.

"I'm concerned about when these movies get more and more popular, I'm afraid it will make young audiences get lost when it comes to knowledge about film," he said, adding that these movies have become the standard for younger audiences and that they won't have the desire to study or watch what Mr. Scorsese refers to as "real cinema" such as Lawrence of Arabia, Mean Streets, A Clockwork Orange and 2001: A Space Odyssey.

[Jim Bob]

I share John Woo's concern.

[samadriel]

I think it's bullshit.

[Monsieur Verdoux]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/avengers-endgame-directors-break-silence-martin-scorsese-attack-1255560

21 Bridges opens seven weeks after Oscar-winning filmmaker Martin Scorsese turned heads with an interview with Empire in which he said Marvel films were more like theme-park rides than cinema. "It isn't the cinema of human beings trying to convey emotional, psychological experiences to another human being," said the director, who further expounded upon his thoughts in a Nov. 4 New York Times op-ed. Both Marvel's detractors and defenders have waded into the debate, and on Sunday, the Russo brothers shared their own thoughts publicly for the first time while doing press for 21 Bridges.

"Ultimately, we define cinema as a film that can bring people together to have a shared, emotional experience," Joe tells The Hollywood Reporter.

The Russos grew up devouring genre movies and art house films alike. They would frequent their local art house theater in Cleveland and spend hours debating the merits of the films they saw. The siblings would also stay up late on Saturdays to watch late-night genre movies with their father, devouring films like The French Connection and The Taking of Pelham 123, both of which they cite as inspirations for 21 Bridges.

"When we look at the box office [of] Avengers: Endgame, we don't see that as a signifier of financial success, we see it as a signifier of emotional success," says Joe of the film, which earned $2.78 billion globally. "It's a movie that had an unprecedented impact on audiences around the world in the way that they shared that narrative and the way that they experienced it. And the emotions they felt watching it."

Scorsese has noted that he has tried to watch a few Marvel films, but quickly abandoned them. The Russos note it's challenging to have a dialogue about cinema if the acclaimed director hasn't seen the films he is talking about.

"But, at the end of the day, what do we know?" Joe says, jokingly. "We're just two guys from Cleveland, Ohio, and 'cinema' is a New York word. In Cleveland, we call them movies."

Adds Anthony: "The other way to think about it, too, is nobody owns cinema. We don't own cinema. You don't own cinema. Scorsese doesn't own cinema."

[Jim Bob]

"But, at the end of the day, what do we know?" Joe says, jokingly. "We're just two guys from Cleveland, Ohio, and 'cinema' is a New York word. In Cleveland, we call them movies."

Does he really not understand the difference between a film (art) and a movie (popcorn entertainment)?  There's nothing inherently wrong with the latter, but when it often comes at the expense of the former, as is increasingly the case in mainstream cinema, that's an issue, or at the very least a valid avenue of criticism to make.

Adds Anthony: "The other way to think about it, too, is nobody owns cinema. We don't own cinema. You don't own cinema. Scorsese doesn't own cinema."

Indeed.  Disney owns cinema.

[Dr Rock]

It's very similar to when the popularity of comic books stopped people ever reading real books.

[Jim Bob]

It's very similar to when the popularity of comic books stopped people ever reading real books.

Oh hello, straw man argument.

[MortSahlFan]

No one is writing great books as Steinbeck, Hemingway, etc. to adapt from.

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Thomas Pynchon and Cormac McCarthy are still going, if we're talking about 'Great American Novelist' stuff, Phillip Roth was still banging them out up until recently

[Monsieur Verdoux]

"But, at the end of the day, what do we know?" Joe says, jokingly. "We're just two guys from Cleveland, Ohio, and 'cinema' is a New York word. In Cleveland, we call them movies."

The problem with this passage is that it disingenuously tries to recast obsequiousness to corporate management as rural working class culture. "Well what do ah know ahm just a shit kicker from Ohio, excuse me if ah don't understand yaw fancy New Yawk ways". Faux-folksy bullshit, don't fall for it

[chveik]

No one is writing great books as Steinbeck, Hemingway, etc. to adapt from.

so what? most great films aren't adaptations of great books.

[bgmnts]

I dunno, I think people who go and see superhero films in retail park cinemas don't like cinema, just like people who eat steak bakes in greggs don't really like pies.

Or they are just hungry and want something quick and cheap.

[Monsieur Verdoux]

The food analogy doesn't work because in any given cinema the ticket prices don't vary from movie to movie depending on how 'gourmet' the film is or whatever. So the faux-populist argument doesn't wash.

[Dr Rock]

Let's all just agree that superhero movies are ace and stop all this silly business.

[Jim Bob]

Some of us like Paul Anderson films such as There Will Be Blood, not Paul Anderson movies like The Three Musketeers.  Fuck Paul Anderson and his ilk.  He'll never be a true filmmaker like Paul Anderson.

[Dr Rock]

This may shock you, but I love There Will Be Blood too. Almost as much as Thor Ragnarok.

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Yeah I'm interested in there being space for both, but that's not what's happening in real life. I don't even particularly give a shit for arbitrary distinctions about what is 'real cinema' or not, I just don't want one storytelling form to dominate at the expense of others

[Jim Bob]

This may shock you, but I love There Will Be Blood too. Almost as much as Thor Ragnarok.

That doesn't shock me.  It also doesn't negate the point being made, in regards to the oversaturation of superheroes and other popcorn movies in cinema, at the expense of more intellectual fare.  I too enjoy a good movie (emphasis on good) as much as I enjoy a good film.  However, there's only so many explosions and melodramatic nonsense that one can take, before the mind feels malnourished for something of more substance.

EDIT: Um, yeah.  What Monsieur Verdoux said.

I will also add that part of the issue for me is that I don't generally give two hoots about superheroes, just as I don't particularly care for remakes or endless sequels.  That essentially puts me in a position where I generally have zero interest in watching any of the popcorn movies that are playing and there's so many popcorn movies, that there's hardly any mid-to-high budget bona fide films (artistry before commerce) being produced.  Kinda difficult not to take exception to that really. 

[phantom_power]

The problem with this passage is that it disingenuously tries to recast obsequiousness to corporate management as rural working class culture. "Well what do ah know ahm just a shit kicker from Ohio, excuse me if ah don't understand yaw fancy New Yawk ways". Faux-folksy bullshit, don't fall for it

Or it is just a throwaway joke from people fed up of being asked the same question and seemingly being criticised for being good at their jobs

[Monsieur Verdoux]

the idea that they're being criticised for 'being good at their jobs' is a REALLY generous interpretation. easy to be 'good at your job' when your paymasters hoard resources and strangle distribution. And no, I don't think the culture war 'New York' framing is throwaway, it may be an unconscious slip, but it does reveal a certain defensive mentality that scrambles for cheap slobs/snobs appeal in the face of structural criticism