Author Topic: General Erection  (Read 96758 times)

Re: General Erection
« Reply #90 on: October 28, 2019, 10:06:27 AM »
So the whole "remain" thing can do one? The important thing for the Lib Dems is propping up a Tory Brexit in exchange for another ride in the ministerial limousines and an assurance that nothing will change. Fascist enablers thinking they look virtuous.

Oh even better than that i'm afraid.  They are going to make a pitch for the youth vote they lost in the coalition and will try and push the votes for 16 yr olds, of course Labour would support this but the Lib Dems will claim they instigated this by getting in there first.

pancreas

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Re: General Erection
« Reply #91 on: October 28, 2019, 11:53:52 AM »
I don't quite understand this. How are Lib Dems selling out Remain? It is true we need a GE in order to get a majority for a second ref. And they're trying to conspire to get a GE. Isn't that, just, fine? I'm missing something.

Re: General Erection
« Reply #92 on: October 28, 2019, 11:59:31 AM »
Isn't conspiring for a GE in the middle of December deliberately anti-Labour, thus pro-tory/ leave?

Blue Jam

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Re: General Erection
« Reply #93 on: October 28, 2019, 12:33:32 PM »
I don’t understand what is going on in the commons but Jacob Rees-Mogg is looking pretty sexy right now. He has an Erskine-May swagger

I finally started watching Mr. Show recently and noted one sketch where Tom Kenny is wearing a grey wig and he looks like Jacob Rees Mogg.

I don't want Spongebob to look like Jacob Rees Mogg. That's just upsetting.

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Re: General Erection
« Reply #94 on: October 28, 2019, 12:42:47 PM »
Isn't conspiring for a GE in the middle of December deliberately anti-Labour, thus pro-tory/ leave?

Well, it further indicates the Lib Dems just want to pick up another 20 or 30 seats off the back of absolute fucking morons rather than actually stop Brexit.

Fortunately I think some, a slight amount of Labour pushback is starting to help convince people that actually Labour are serious about stonewalling pretty much every form of Brexit that isn't the most aligned possible to existing EU conditions, and the drastically shit actions of Swinson are really, really pissing off arch Remainers.

BlodwynPig

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Re: General Erection
« Reply #95 on: October 28, 2019, 02:25:42 PM »
Christmas party time 12th December. Expect madness at the polls

Re: General Erection
« Reply #96 on: October 28, 2019, 03:11:50 PM »
So the opposition had been pretty effective in backing Johnson into a corner and be forced to steadily abandon all his promises, then the Lib Dems fuck it up over a weekend after seeing some positive polling for themselves.

They have always been completely useless any time they've fancied themselves as master strategists, such as their proposed vote of no confidence immediately after Johnson gained office.

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Re: General Erection
« Reply #97 on: October 28, 2019, 03:15:44 PM »
I don't disagree that the Lib Dems are acting in self-interest when it comes to facilitating an election, but I struggle to think of anything else the opposition can/should do in these circumstances. It's a hung parliament, government can't do anything, extension is secured, so what's the point of Labour repeatedly saying you want a general election and then refuse to back one in favour of...nothing else? It's bizarre.

Re: General Erection
« Reply #98 on: October 28, 2019, 03:21:53 PM »
I think the problem is that the Lib Dems are giving the Tories exactly what they want - an election obviously had to happen, but it didn't have to happen on the Tories' terms.  This was an ideal opportunity to lay down effective amendments.

Quote
It is not clear how the government’s proposal for a bill would differ and it is possible No 10 could be using the idea to put pressure on Labour before tabling legislation that the Lib Dems could not back.

However, Lib Dem sources indicated they would be willing to support any legislation that was fundamentally similar to their own and confirmed they would not pursue amendments in order to ensure the bill had the best chance possible of getting through.

Re: General Erection
« Reply #99 on: October 28, 2019, 04:01:49 PM »
I don't disagree that the Lib Dems are acting in self-interest when it comes to facilitating an election, but I struggle to think of anything else the opposition can/should do in these circumstances. It's a hung parliament, government can't do anything, extension is secured, so what's the point of Labour repeatedly saying you want a general election and then refuse to back one in favour of...nothing else? It's bizarre.

Yeah, we've run out of road. Labour's line of "only when no deal is off the table" doesn't really hold up to scrutiny because the only way it can ever truly be 100% off the table is if we rescind Article 50 or for a Labour government to go negotiate a new deal. Labour won't vote for the former and we can't get the latter without an election.

I think the problem is that the Lib Dems are giving the Tories exactly what they want - an election obviously had to happen, but it didn't have to happen on the Tories' terms.  This was an ideal opportunity to lay down effective amendments.

I think if the expelled Tories were all Remainers, there were less Labour Leave rebels and Bercow was staying on, we'd be able to get a few months more out of amending and making Johnson squirm, but I think we pushed our luck as far as it will go last Saturday.

pigamus

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Re: General Erection
« Reply #100 on: October 28, 2019, 05:38:14 PM »
Mood does seem to be going against Corbyn not agreeing to an erection

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Re: General Erection
« Reply #101 on: October 28, 2019, 05:48:39 PM »
It went so well last time, after all.

There is zero chance that Johnson would accept a coalition deal unless the LDs ditch their defining policy and get behind his WA. Such a reverse ferret would be unprecedented (apart from the tuition fees precedent, that is).

Which they obviously will.  This is the thing a surprisingly few people are hoisting in.  The tuition fee precedent is entirely the point, as they rode into government on the back of the student vote.  Will people honestly be surprised when they do exactly the same thing again this time?  It's astonishing how short people's political memories are.

The Lib Dems are just Tory monosodium glutamate.  Stick them in a Tory stew to bulk it out and nobody will ever know those votes weren't for the Tories in the first place.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2019, 06:05:12 PM by Replies From View »

greencalx

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Re: General Erection
« Reply #102 on: October 28, 2019, 05:58:15 PM »
Think Labour will abstain on the FTPA and either vote for or abstain on the LD/SNP bill. Think Corbyn is now saying that a definitive date will be sufficient for him to rule out accidental no deal. Maybe they will amend the bill to set out a specific timetable for the dissolution of parliament and the date of the election.

pigamus

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Re: General Erection
« Reply #103 on: October 28, 2019, 06:28:08 PM »
Is the 9th over the 12th significantly better? What are the pros and cons?

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Re: General Erection
« Reply #104 on: October 28, 2019, 06:35:21 PM »
Quote
The SNP's Westminster leader, Ian Blackford, says his party sees the need for an early election, but not on the terms suggested by Boris Johnson.

He says if the motion is backed tonight, the PM could "railroad" his Brexit deal through Parliament, meaning the UK could leave by the end of November.

A "post-Brexit election", he says, is not something his party can sign up to - and confirms that the SNP will not be supporting the motion tonight.


DUP are also opposed.

So looks like it will just be Tories and Lib Dems. If we have an election in December it will be the 3rd in four years.

Re: General Erection
« Reply #105 on: October 28, 2019, 06:39:22 PM »
And the SNP of course.  Probably enough to win, even assuming that the independents will dig their heels in.

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Re: General Erection
« Reply #106 on: October 28, 2019, 06:40:46 PM »
The SNP wont be supporting the election motion tonight according to Ian Blackford

pigamus

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Re: General Erection
« Reply #107 on: October 28, 2019, 06:44:06 PM »
Might not be possible to get the 9th through anyway, according to the Guardian. Be funny if Corbyn chucks his weight behind it now.

Re: General Erection
« Reply #108 on: October 28, 2019, 07:04:44 PM »
And it fails. Amazing. They offered Johnson an open goal with the 9th and he still fucked it in a show of “strength”.

Classic Dom.

Re: General Erection
« Reply #109 on: October 28, 2019, 07:42:45 PM »
Is the 9th over the 12th significantly better? What are the pros and cons?

Apparently, students should still be at university on the 9th whereas they'll be on their way / at home by the 12th.

greencalx

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Re: General Erection
« Reply #110 on: October 28, 2019, 07:43:05 PM »
Which are these mythical universities that finish somewhere between the 9th and the 12th?

Re: General Erection
« Reply #111 on: October 28, 2019, 07:44:30 PM »
I know! When I lived in Manchester, they were all packing up at the end of December.

What's the likelihood of getting votes for 16 and 17 year olds through? That'd be fucking ace, loads of stuff for Labour campaigners to put their weight behind there.

Zetetic

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Re: General Erection
« Reply #112 on: October 28, 2019, 07:46:01 PM »
I'm guessing the suggestion is that they stick around over the weekend, and then clear off ... late on Monday or maybe Tuesday?

I don't really know.

pigamus

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Re: General Erection
« Reply #113 on: October 28, 2019, 07:50:41 PM »
Does votes at 16 significantly fuck him? Enough to deliver Labour majority or at least hung parliament? Is there academic work on consequences of this etc.?

Re: General Erection
« Reply #114 on: October 28, 2019, 07:59:14 PM »
Now it looks like that he will use a Libdem style amendment but won't budge on the date, so Swinson's refusing to back it.

pigamus

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Re: General Erection
« Reply #115 on: October 28, 2019, 08:06:02 PM »
So both the Lib Dems and the SNP think having this election is so desperately, desperately important, but only if it happens on THEIR date. How very convincing.

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Re: General Erection
« Reply #116 on: October 28, 2019, 08:15:51 PM »
We need a referendum on when the election should be.

Re: General Erection
« Reply #117 on: October 28, 2019, 08:17:50 PM »
So is there any way out of this stalemate? It seems that the current makeup of the Commons will never agree a way out. A GE could change that mix but it seems that can't happen either. It could just stay this way until Jan 31 and then what?

It's like Waiting For Godot on endless repeat.

Zetetic

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Re: General Erection
« Reply #118 on: October 28, 2019, 08:28:45 PM »
So is there any way out of this stalemate?
The dissolution of our traitor parliament. A request for American assistance in restoring order.

Dr Rock

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Re: General Erection
« Reply #119 on: October 28, 2019, 08:43:20 PM »
DEPORT THE TRATORS