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Is Jeff Goldblum #cancelled?

Started by Great White Ape, November 03, 2019, 02:09:45 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Lisa Jesusandmarychain

Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on November 04, 2019, 08:41:48 PM
He was good in Annie Hall.

I didn't get any pleasure out of it
* tips a wink to Greek speaking CaBbers*

garbed_attic

Quote from: a peepee tipi on November 04, 2019, 01:29:07 AM
Aziz did the disingenuous 180 though, distancing himself from his (obviously performative) "wokeness", and other, admittedly unsubstantiated, stories still float around him in the rumor mill. Have been since before that initial story came out. Slimy fuck.

Seeing so many people (mostly but not exclusively men) read the account and come away with "he did nothing wrong" managed to cement my fear that when different men hear the term "sexual assault" they imagine different things... and then even when presented with a blow by blow account of someone being sexually coercive, lots of men (and many women too) won't recognise it.

I thing the case could have been an actually productive turning point in the cultural discourse around sexual abuse, but a bunch of disingenuous think pieces rather helped prevent that from happening :/ (also, the story being reported on a publication called babe.net with a loose chatty journalist style admittedly didn't help matters)

a peepee tipi

Right, that was the craziest thing about it. There are legitimate criticisms to be made about how it was reported, but the reaction was largely, "Well, if that's what he did, it just sounds like a bad date." I don't think there being a power differential distinguishes the severity of forms of sexual assault, it's just a modifier that makes an awful thing even more egregious, but her eventual "consent" was nothing but coerced.

What's funny to me though is that the guy clearly gets his cues from rough porn. I imagine that most of the sex he has is consensual, but he probably always does that thing where you slap your shit against the vagina before the insert. Laughing just thinking about it, little Aziz vigorously smacking his little Aziz on the body of a confused and very disappointed woman, her initial enthusiasm flushed away because of some silly shit he saw in a video once

Pinball

Social media misandry is abuse of men by women. Discuss.


marquis_de_sad

Quote from: Pinball on November 05, 2019, 10:28:48 PM
Social media misandry is abuse of men by women. Discuss.

Colorless green ideas sleep furiously

Mister Six

Quote from: gout_pony on November 05, 2019, 04:51:58 PM
Seeing so many people (mostly but not exclusively men) read the account and come away with "he did nothing wrong" managed to cement my fear that when different men hear the term "sexual assault" they imagine different things... and then even when presented with a blow by blow account of someone being sexually coercive, lots of men (and many women too) won't recognise it.

Assuming we're taking about Ansari here, I won't say it wasn't sexual assault because I'm not sure what the legal definition is wherever the incident took place, nor will I defend his behaviour, which came across as someone who has never actually had sex before using porn as a how-to guide (why would you put your fingers in someone's throat as foreplay? Ugh).

I will, however, say that it's not a cut-and-dried case of assault in the way that Weinstein's was, for example, because

1) She gave him oral sex at least once (I think twice but don't recall the details), which could reasonably be interpreted as a consenting act showing interest in sex; and

2) She didn't actually explicitly refuse to consent for a long period of time - and when she did, he immediately stopped, called her a cab and sent an apology text.

What it came across as was a woman who had trouble verbally communicating her discomfort and lack of desire to have sex, and a man who is so poorly socialised that he thought her walking around his living room to avoid him was some kind of flirtation.

Not that I'm blaming her - I know there are all kinds of societal reasons why women are discouraged from voicing their needs and desires, not to mention the difference in their power dynamic, he being a rich celeb and her being a regular Joe. And his actions are icky and weird, and the behaviour of someone who treats women as moving sex dolls rather than feeling human beings (I get the feeling Ansari had limited sexual experience before becoming a celeb and his subsequent trysts did little to persuade him that he should take cues from the women he beds).

However it's not a case of intentional and malicious sexual abuse, and when the story came out Ansari didn't deny it. Which is why it doesn't get treated as savagely as Weinstein's rapes or CK cornering women in his hotel room then lying about it for years.

I saw this as someone who liked Parks & Rec (including Ansari's performance), doesn't think much at all of his stand-up and thought Master of None was a middling Louie knock-off just like all the other middling Louie knock-offs.

garbed_attic

It is probably accurate to say that it was a more common kind of assault (and maybe less premeditated, though ultimately we cant know) than those committed by Weinstein. I also don't know how it would stand up in court - I can imagine it going both ways depending on the prosecution and defence tbh. What I found deeply disheartening is that so many people dismissed what he did as "nothing" and that a bunch of think pieces used it as evidence that metoo had "gone too far", casting him as some kind of innocent victim, rather than someone who did something really fucking skeezy and wrong that required proper contrition and self work rather than a disingenuous framing and successful Netflix special.

Basically, sections of the press helped to wilfully crush a flashpoint that actually might have forced some self-awareness onto people... but ultimately readers largely preferred the easily monstered likes of Weinstein.

Pinball

If women's lives were 'cancelled' by social media vigilantism that has no regard for due legal process, it would soon be stopped. But when it's the Sisterhood doing the attacking, and men being attacked, then the men can be destroyed and no-one gives a shit.

Famous Mortimer

Quote from: Pinball on November 06, 2019, 09:37:28 PM
If women's lives were 'cancelled' by social media vigilantism that has no regard for due legal process, it would soon be stopped. But when it's the Sisterhood doing the attacking, and men being attacked, then the men can be destroyed and no-one gives a shit.
Womens' lives have been destroyed for decades by sexual abuse, firstly, then by not being believed about sexual abuse. Which is why they were forced to go public with their stories, and rely on temporarily affecting their ability to make huge sums of money in their chosen profession rather than having them arrested. But you already know this.

Twed

Quote from: Pinball on November 06, 2019, 09:37:28 PM
If women's lives were 'cancelled' by social media vigilantism that has no regard for due legal process, it would soon be stopped. But when it's the Sisterhood doing the attacking, and men being attacked, then the men can be destroyed and no-one gives a shit.


Twed

The Bart in that GIF represents your fucking post

PlanktonSideburns

Yea men aren't getting destroyed, a famous bloke getting 'cancelled' is more like a temporary period of bad PR most instances

Pinball

Why have a criminal justice system then?

And it's rather obvious that metoo has got out of control, 'cancelling' men based on an unsubstantiated allegation.

jobotic

Got out of whose control? Men like you?

Twit 2

Quote from: Pinball on November 06, 2019, 10:45:24 PM
Why have a criminal justice system then?

And it's rather obvious that metoo has got out of control, 'cancelling' men based on an unsubstantiated allegation.

No one gives a fuck. You are irrelevant. However much you want metoo to be about your opinions, it's not. It's not "metoo + pinball, would love to hear his take". You could even go as far as to say the entire movement is to give people who are not you a voice.

Pinball

Quote from: jobotic on November 06, 2019, 10:47:06 PM
Got out of whose control? Men like you?
Thanks for the personal abuse. Try answering the question.

chveik


Pinball

Quote from: Twit 2 on November 06, 2019, 10:50:31 PM
No one gives a fuck. You are irrelevant. However much you want metoo to be about your opinions, it's not. It's not "metoo + pinball, would love to hear his take". You could even go as far as to say the entire movement is to give people who are not you a voice.
How delightful. You epitomise what is wrong with social media- a shouty hate amplifier. Actually, Shouty Hate Amplifier would be a good username for a prick like you ;-)

Twed

I'm really worried about the rich men having their earning potential demonstrably not affected by accusations about things they definitely did

marquis_de_sad

Quote from: Pinball on November 06, 2019, 10:45:24 PM
Why have a criminal justice system then?

And it's rather obvious that metoo has got out of control, 'cancelling' men based on an unsubstantiated allegation.

In the thread that you're posting in, we are discussing (for the most part) unsubstantiated (and vague) allegations against a bloke who as a result of which... hasn't been cancelled. I know you haven't actually read the thread, so this point is moot, but that would seem to go against your argument here.

bgmnts

The people trying to out abusers are in the wrong here?

So if someone in Pinball's family was sexually assaulted, he'd be angry at the people outing them on social media? That's interesting.

Twit 2

Quote from: bgmnts on November 06, 2019, 10:59:15 PM
The people trying to out abusers are in the wrong here?

So if someone in Pinball's family was sexually assaulted, he'd be angry at the people outing them on social media? That's interesting.

He doesn't know what he thinks because he is a sad and angry individual. With a bit of luck he'll get the help he needs under a Corbyn government.

Quote from: Pinball on November 06, 2019, 10:54:30 PM
How delightful. You epitomise what is wrong with social media- a shouty hate amplifier. Actually, Shouty Hate Amplifier would be a good username for a prick like you ;-)

"Triggered lol". I'm not on any social media. I bet you're all over Twitter like a rash...

Pinball

Quote from: chveik on November 06, 2019, 10:53:11 PM
you don't know what abuse is pal
I used to post a lot on CaB back in the day, and am dipping my toe in the water again. It seems that CaB is host to some rather unpleasant people nowadays, who prefer to hurl abuse rather than engage in debate. What a shame. And your grammar is appalling.

I am at peace wih myself and content, and actually quite happy. You need to disconnect from the social media hate amplifier, old chap.

Of course, you will respond with 'fuck you', because you are an ill-educated, uncouth pig. Prove me wrong, 'pal'.

Pinball

Quote from: bgmnts on November 06, 2019, 10:59:15 PM
The people trying to out abusers are in the wrong here?

So if someone in Pinball's family was sexually assaulted, he'd be angry at the people outing them on social media? That's interesting.
I'd go to the police, not twitter.

marquis_de_sad

Quote from: Pinball on November 06, 2019, 11:02:14 PM
I used to post a lot on CaB back in the day, and am dipping my toe in the water again. It seems that CaB is host to some rather unpleasant people nowadays, who prefer to hurl abuse rather than engage in debate.

You've got a shit memory if you think it was all sweetness and light back in the day.

Twit 2

Quote from: Pinball on November 06, 2019, 11:02:14 PM
I used to post a lot on CaB back in the day, and am dipping my toe in the water again. It seems that CaB is host to some rather unpleasant people nowadays, who prefer to hurl abuse rather than engage in debate. What a shame. And your grammar is appalling.

I am at peace wih myself and content, and actually quite happy. You need to disconnect from the social media hate amplifier, old chap.

Of course, you will respond with 'fuck you', because you are an ill-educated, uncouth pig. Prove me wrong, 'pal'.

If we all say fuck off will you be proven so incredibly right that you'll actually fuck back off? Cos that would be great!

Pinball

Quote from: Twit 2 on November 06, 2019, 11:00:45 PM
"Triggered lol". I'm not on any social media. I bet you're all over Twitter like a rash...
Did you not see the wink, trigger?

No, I barely use social media, but I can see how it has poisoned debate from your responses.

jobotic

Quote from: Pinball on November 06, 2019, 10:52:11 PM
Thanks for the personal abuse. Try answering the question.

What I said was abuse? You need to be a bit less hysterical if want to do this detached calm intelligent bit.